Advice on Samsung's The Frame TV

R Totale

Novice Member
I am considering purchasing Samsung's new 2021 The Frame TV in the 65" model. I have been reading reviews of the TV, as well as comments on this site, but the more I read the more confused I get about whether this would be a good choice. Any advice from people on here would be greatly appreciated. Here are the details of my situation:

I currently have the Samsung PN60F8500, the last of their 60" plasma TVs before they stopped making them. I still do love the way it looks but want to get a new TV as it doesn't have 4K capacity and I have started acquiring UHD discs. I use my TV pretty much solely for watching movies. I do not care about gaming or sports, and always turn off any motion smoothing, noise reduction etc. etc. The less the TV is "altering" the picture it is receiving the better. A TV that can successfully display 24fps content without problems is very important to me seeing as most of what I watch is in this format. I have an Oppo 4K blu-ray player connected to the TV.

I am very drawn to The Frame because of its thin profile and attractive appearance. I have ascertained it isn't exactly the "best" TV out there and think I am happy to sacrifice a little on the picture to gain its other benefits. My questions really are:

How much better than The Frame are other TVs at a similar price range such as LG's OLED gallery TV? Is The Frame a good TV for watching movies at 24fps? How does The Frame's picture compare with a late model plasma like the Samsung PN60F8500? How do it's viewing angles compare with something like the plasma?

Thanks anyone for any advice you can give!!
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
I’ve got a 2021 Frame in 55”. I got it to appease the Mrs who didn’t want a tv in the kitchen. It’s sleek, looks good on the wall and the no gap mount has got it sitting nice and flush. We’ve also had a couple of people comment on the nice picture hanging on the kitchen wall 😂

Picture wise it’s not amazing but it’s not terrible either, very much middle of the road. However for the viewing I’m subjecting it to, football, the odd Netflix show, it does an good job.

Also comes with an one connect box which is brilliant for getting a nice uncluttered finish.

Better off getting an oled for movie viewing though I’d of thought.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Its a mid range TV, basically a Q70T in frame guise. In other words its fine for SDR but falls short for HDR where extra features are missing like higher peak brightness and good local dimming.

HDR is a game-changer really, never before has something been introduced that places heavy demands on TVs. If it wasn't for it, or if you didn't care to future proof then it wouldn't really matter.

Have you considered just using one of Samsung's TVs from its QLED lineup and pairing one of those with the no-gap mount? They don't come with a one connect box (unless you get the exuberantly priced 8k models) though.

Or, alternatively LGs GX or G1 which are copies of the CX and C1 with all the connections handled by a dedicated soundbar that you can mount cleanly beneath the TV.

Regarding 24p, 3:2 pulldown judder isn't an issue with any of the mentioned TVs in this thread, including the frame. Most TVs can play 24fp at the correct frame rate now. You will probably find you need to use some motion smoothing though, because no TV sold now is as smooth, or as set and forget as a Plasma.
 
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R Totale

Novice Member
Thanks for your replies! I understand that The Frame will not exactly reach the heights of other TVs out there currently (or in the future) but do you think I would see much of an upgrade in comparison with my current plasma? The art mode of the TV his very appealing to me, perhaps enough to overlook problems the TV may have but if it doesn't feel better than my plasma—or even feels worse—then that would of course be a serious bummer.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
In most aspects it will be a big upgrade. Motion will take some getting used too, and you'll probably have to do some tweaking depending on what you're watching. HDR though is a bit of a problem, since often you can't disable it. Upscaling of lower quality material won't be as good.

If you use HDR on a TV without high peak brightness and local dimming then you'll get a washed out picture. You could however always disable HDR on your UHD Blu-Ray player if that's the only means you'll encounter video with HDR data.

Here's an explanation about HDR:

Hopefully it helps you, it works very differently from SDR. In the past if you bought a lower spec TV you never had to think about it having problems displaying certain content, HDR changes that quite a bit.
 

R Totale

Novice Member
Thanks Dodgexander! So what you are saying is that HDR might actually make the picture worse on The Frame? I'm pretty sure I can disable HDR on the Oppo player but then actively disabling something that is supposed to make the picture better doesn't sound like the best approach! I don't fully understand exactly what HDR is so thanks for your link—will get reading!

What you say about using some motion smoothing worries me a little as I am particularly sensitive to soap opera effect. I do also love have motion looks on the plasma so am curious how the motion will look different?
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
IMO

HDR is a bigger game-changer than 4K, purely from a resolution. So if you're planning to upgrade to UHD discs you'd be far better concentrating in TVs that will handle HDR well and ignore "The Frame" models as they're hugely overpriced.

LG GX/G1 have a gallery feature and are slim for a no-gap onto the wall picture frame look and vastly better for HDR.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
LCD TVs now have the same constraints as they used to with motion, they, like OLED TVs are sample and hold displays. LCD TVs tend to have more motion blur, but stutter less. OLED TVs have no motion blur like Plasma, but stutter more.

So you will probably find you need to do some adjustment to ease the stutter/blur...and if you are one of the lucky people who don't then you may take some time to adjust.

The good thing is software has improved quite a bit on TVs, so you can customize motion to a level where you can smooth things out a little, but also without any noticeable soap opera effect.

Because these things are so subjective, make sure you buy from a reputable store so you can return the TV if you are unhappy.

Regarding HDR making the picture worse- correct, if you view it on a TV like the frame then you can run in to some problems and the SDR version will actually look better. SDR was made with the constraints of TVs in mind, HDR not. So if you buy a TV that will accept a HDR signal if it doesn't have adequate hardware to display it, the picture can be washed out or too dark.
 

R Totale

Novice Member
Thanks Dodgexander for all your detailed advice. I did go ahead and purchase the Frame. While the limitations are very clear to me the benefits were too appealing. Sadly those benefits have not too much to do with the picture quality and more to do with how it looks on the wall, and how it functions in art mode. It is doing both of those things great but I am having one problem:

I am finding the way it handles motion a little strange looking. Initially I turned off all of the motion controls but it still seemed to have a slight soap opera effect at times—things just felt too smooth, the background too static. Almost a 3-D type look. What I am looking for in a TV is primarily something that handles 24fps well and looks as close as possible to a cinematic presentation, ideally celluloid. The plasma was of course very good at this but it's inability to render 4K, combined with the bulky nature of my plasma set have lead to me replacing it. I read something about Black Frame Interpolation (BFI) that said this would help replicate the look of cinema better. Is this true? I have tried it and think it does look a little better but am a little unclear exactly what it is doing. I have left things such as blur reduction, judder reduction and noise reduction off as presume they will only add more soap opera effect.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Thanks Dodgexander for all your detailed advice. I did go ahead and purchase the Frame. While the limitations are very clear to me the benefits were too appealing. Sadly those benefits have not too much to do with the picture quality and more to do with how it looks on the wall, and how it functions in art mode. It is doing both of those things great but I am having one problem:

I am finding the way it handles motion a little strange looking. Initially I turned off all of the motion controls but it still seemed to have a slight soap opera effect at times—things just felt too smooth, the background too static. Almost a 3-D type look. What I am looking for in a TV is primarily something that handles 24fps well and looks as close as possible to a cinematic presentation, ideally celluloid. The plasma was of course very good at this but it's inability to render 4K, combined with the bulky nature of my plasma set have lead to me replacing it. I read something about Black Frame Interpolation (BFI) that said this would help replicate the look of cinema better. Is this true? I have tried it and think it does look a little better but am a little unclear exactly what it is doing. I have left things such as blur reduction, judder reduction and noise reduction off as presume they will only add more soap opera effect.
It will take some time to adjust after a Plasma, LCDs just deal with motion differently, you should have a look at the motion presets, or define a custom value yourself. BFI can help, but its mostly about reducing blur, not stutter.

To disable SOE completely, just disable interpolation like so:
1626141345369.png


Although by doing so, you'll get more stutter, so its a personal choice!
 

R Totale

Novice Member
I tried turning all the pictures clarity settings off. My problem is the picture looks too smooth. Blur and stutter aren't bothering me it's that I feel a slight soap opera effect. It's mild but enough to bother me. It's worse for 1080P content when my Oppo is outputting at 4K.

I think my problem might simply be adjusting to the difference between plasma and QLED. I do also have an OLED TV and have slightly similar problems at times but it isn't as bad as with this new Samsung.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I don't think turning them off is enough to eliminate SOE on Samsung models, try the settings above and there should be no SOE, but the TV can still do 24p this way.

Adjustment may well be the issue, sometimes people find adjusting to Sony or Philips TVs better because they have less motion complaints, but sometimes its a matter of taste.
 

R Totale

Novice Member
Yeah I think I might just be finding the movement strange on this QLED. It's weird as I have an older Samsung LED from about 10 years ago and have never had problems with the movement on that (as long as all motion smoothing/blur/judder controls are turned off). When I turned on the noise reduction like you suggested it appeared to make it worse. I can't decide if it looks better with or without the BFI. Unfortunately I think it may just be that I don't like the way this TV handled movement.

To be a little clearer it's not quite soap opera effect I am seeing. But something is weird with movement. And things almost look a little too "3-D."
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Could it be this you notice?

If you aren't happy with its motion you are probably best returning the TV while you still can.
 

R Totale

Novice Member
It could be although a lot of that thread is a bit over my head. All I know is things are looking just a little off. Thanks for sharing.
 

Chippy99

Member
DIdn't know where to post this, but thought this thread would do.

Needless to say, people need to be VERY careful when buying a TV in that you cannot assume that if the (say) 65" model gets great reviews, then necessarily the (say) 40" version will be equally good.

I just purchased the frame 2021, 32". Let me get straight to the point: It's absolute garbage.

For some unfathomable reason, Samsung have decide to put an IPS panel in it, so it is incapable of producing anything remotely resembling "black". With the combination of a IPS panel and only edge lighting, the black levels are frankly a complete joke. Absolutely unwatchable.

Do Samsung not realise that many people will be buying a 32" for the BEDROOM - to watch in dimly lit conditions? What on earth were they thinking putting an IPS panel in it???!! Beggars beiief.

To make matters worse, mine has abysmal backlight bleed/clouding. The quality control is shocking. I give it zero out of 10 for QC.

The images with a bright, colourful screen are actually very good. Shame it's utterly useless as a general purpose television. Needless to say, I am returning it.

Now don't laugh - A "black" screen, courtesy of Samsung: (And no, the light on the bottom left is not a reflection!)
 

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Dodgexander

Moderator
DIdn't know where to post this, but thought this thread would do.

Needless to say, people need to be VERY careful when buying a TV in that you cannot assume that if the (say) 65" model gets great reviews, then necessarily the (say) 40" version will be equally good.

I just purchased the frame 2021, 32". Let me get straight to the point: It's absolute garbage.

For some unfathomable reason, Samsung have decide to put an IPS panel in it, so it is incapable of producing anything remotely resembling "black". With the combination of a IPS panel and only edge lighting, the black levels are frankly a complete joke. Absolutely unwatchable.

Do Samsung not realise that many people will be buying a 32" for the BEDROOM - to watch in dimly lit conditions? What on earth were they thinking putting an IPS panel in it???!! Beggars beiief.

To make matters worse, mine has abysmal backlight bleed/clouding. The quality control is shocking. I give it zero out of 10 for QC.

The images with a bright, colourful screen are actually very good. Shame it's utterly useless as a general purpose television. Needless to say, I am returning it.

Now don't laugh - A "black" screen, courtesy of Samsung: (And no, the light on the bottom left is not a reflection!)
Thanks for sharing. This is one of the reasons I try to advice people best I can to avoid spending more money on smaller TVs. They are all bottom of the barrel models now, you're best spending less and keeping the expectations low, rather than spending more.
 

Chippy99

Member
Thanks for sharing. This is one of the reasons I try to advice people best I can to avoid spending more money on smaller TVs. They are all bottom of the barrel models now, you're best spending less and keeping the expectations low, rather than spending more.
Clearly what you say is true. I subsequently read a Which report which said they hadn't given a small TV a "Best Buy" rating in over 8 years because none of the 81 they had tested, even came close to the required standard. Quite damning.

That said, I am sure that purely from a picture standpoint, I could find a better 32" TV than the Frame. Pretty much anything with a VA panel would offer a massive step up in black-level performance - which is critical for a TV destined for the bedroom, I think.

But unfortunately only Samsung make anything vaguely "thin". Our existing 26" Sony (10 years old maybe?) produces a very reasonable picture - WAAAAAAYYYYYYY better than the Frame could manage, even if I got a perfect one. But the Sony sticks out 3 or 4 inches from the wall and side on, looks very naff. The idea of a slim, flush-mounted TV was very appealing. Shame Samsung didn't think the picture quality mattered at all.

I think I am going to have to wait another 2 or 3 years, because surely by then we will have 32" OLED TVs. You can already buy an LG 32" OLED monitor - even if the price is horrendous at the moment.
 

zabba

Standard Member
Interesting feedback on the 32 inch Samsung Frame, I was about to purchase it for our kitchen but this has made me think twice. 32" is the maximum we can have, and we want something that is slim against the wall. Its is either the frame or the Samsung 32" Q50. Everything else is at least twice as thick and will look worse on the wall. Given it's a bright kitchen, black levels are less relevant for us, but there is no other option it seems. Such a shame that 32" models are poor relations to the bigger models.
 

Chippy99

Member
Interesting feedback on the 32 inch Samsung Frame, I was about to purchase it for our kitchen but this has made me think twice. 32" is the maximum we can have, and we want something that is slim against the wall. Its is either the frame or the Samsung 32" Q50. Everything else is at least twice as thick and will look worse on the wall. Given it's a bright kitchen, black levels are less relevant for us, but there is no other option it seems. Such a shame that 32" models are poor relations to the bigger models.
I would say you would probably be OK with it in a kitchen. With the lights on bright and with bright content on screen, the picture looked rather good. (You could still see the bottom left backlight bleed with mine under any and all conditions, but I put that down to it simply being faulty).

It cannot produce anything remotely resembling black, but that may not matter too much in a kitchen.
 

zabba

Standard Member
Thanks, it might be worth me trying it. How do you find other aspects of it, such as the sound and smart interface?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
It used to be that certain brands there was more chance of getting a VA panel, Samsung were one of the brands actually. Even in recent years TV manufacturers that commonly use VA throughout their entire range are using IPS on smaller TVs like 32"...so now that includes Hisense and TCL.

You could always play the panel lottery with a TCL or Hisense 32 incher. If it doesn't work out, well you've only spent less than £200 on a TV rather than just shy of £400.

The frame is bad value for money even at larger sizes btw, you pay extra for the aesthetics and connectivity.
 

Chippy99

Member
Thanks, it might be worth me trying it. How do you find other aspects of it, such as the sound and smart interface?
Sound was pretty good - especially considering the size and overall volume (cubic centimetres, not decibels!) of the TV.

Smarts, I don't know. I didn't get that far before putting it back in the box ready for the courier.
 

Chippy99

Member
It used to be that certain brands there was more chance of getting a VA panel, Samsung were one of the brands actually.

Yes, bizarre that Samsung of all people would be using an IPS panel. I would have thought they were a safe bet for it being a VA. I don't know whether they thought that for marketing purposes perhaps a wider gamut was more important? I dunno, it's a bizarrely stupid design choice.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I don't know whether they thought that for marketing purposes perhaps a wider gamut was more important? I dunno, it's a bizarrely stupid design choice.
I think its just cost cutting, they already do it with even 43" and 50" models.. These sizes its mostly about selling really cheap to keep up with Chinese competition.

For the consumer, it makes no sense buying more expensive until you get to larger sizes...these sizes are also where features like wide colour gamut get relevant. Samsung can't compete selling a sub 200 TV, so they try to compete offering something different.

Of course IPS has its advantages, blacks, contrast and screen uniformity will be poor but viewing angles should be better, and there won't be as much motion blur in motion, particularly black smears.
 

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