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Question Advice on newly purchased a.v. receiver

Martyn Giles

Active Member
Hello.
Today I purchased a Yamaha RX-A660 a.v. receiver.
I originally went in to buy a Denon AVRX3300W but the bloke in Maidstones Richer sound told me that the Yamaha would sound better with my speakers (2 Cambridge aero 6's at the front with an Aero 5 centre speaker, 2 aero 3s as surrounds and the aero 9 sub) and when i phoned to check stock the bloke i spoke to then also recommended the Yamaha but now I have the Yamaha home I have looked around the internet and I feel poorly advised to say the least ...lied to would feel more accurate if im honest.
So much doesn't add up, the bloke told me that the Yamahas setup software was better but what I'm reading now says that the Denon has better setup software, the bloke said that the Yamaha would be louder and have a more refined sound- what I'm reading in the spec sheets tells me this isn't true, finally both blokes told me that the Yamaha has a better feature set but even this looks to be a lie from what I'm reading.
Was I poorly advised?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think that you were poorly advised. The issue is that you now don't really have any right to a refund or an exchange if bought from a store while you were there. You could suggest you were mis-sold the goods, but this wont necessarily result in Richer Sounds acting the way you want without you having to take the matter further with trading standards? Approach Richer Sounds in a friendly manner to see if they are willing to settle this amicably.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
On paper, the Denon has a higher rated power output (105 watts vs 95 watts) and it has pre-outs for adding external amplification. The room correction software on the Denon seems to be preferred to the Yamaha one.

I would have gone for the Denon, but, I haven't heard the two side by side, with your speakers, and maybe the people that advised you have, and think the Yamaha sounds better. Can you at least ask them to demo them both to you, even just to make you feel better?
 

Martyn Giles

Active Member
On paper, the Denon has a higher rated power output (105 watts vs 95 watts) and it has pre-outs for adding external amplification. The room correction software on the Denon seems to be preferred to the Yamaha one.

I would have gone for the Denon, but, I haven't heard the two side by side, with your speakers, and maybe the people that advised you have, and think the Yamaha sounds better. Can you at least ask them to demo them both to you, even just to make you feel better?
I can ask but as dante01 has said: they may not allow an exchange (If I chose the Denon) anyway.
Personally I would expect that they would if I speak to the manager and say that I was given bad info (basically mis-sold) but I would only go that route if civility failed which I think it may do if they are giving out bad information in the first place.
They definitely give out bad information as they both told me that the Yamaha has more features and better software but nothing I've read agrees with that in any way.
I don't know what to do.
Thank you both for replying.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
My experience with Richer Sounds customer services has been excellent over the years, hopefully they will be nice to you also.
 

Dunners

Active Member
The setup process is simple on the Yamaha if you use their free setup app... but you need to have an iPad. Apart from that, the AVRX3300 is a higher spec'd unit.
What it sounds like compared to the Yamaha is subjective, which is an 'out' for Richer Sounds. Maybe they've A/B'd it and believe this to be true? I haven't done this.
 

Richer Sounds

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello.
Today I purchased a Yamaha RX-A660 a.v. receiver.
I originally went in to buy a Denon AVRX3300W but the bloke in Maidstones Richer sound told me that the Yamaha would sound better with my speakers (2 Cambridge aero 6's at the front with an Aero 5 centre speaker, 2 aero 3s as surrounds and the aero 9 sub) and when i phoned to check stock the bloke i spoke to then also recommended the Yamaha but now I have the Yamaha home I have looked around the internet and I feel poorly advised to say the least ...lied to would feel more accurate if im honest.
So much doesn't add up, the bloke told me that the Yamahas setup software was better but what I'm reading now says that the Denon has better setup software, the bloke said that the Yamaha would be louder and have a more refined sound- what I'm reading in the spec sheets tells me this isn't true, finally both blokes told me that the Yamaha has a better feature set but even this looks to be a lie from what I'm reading.
Was I poorly advised?

Hi there,

I was sorry to read that you are not completely satisfied with your purchase.

Customer Service is our top priority so it's obviously concerning for me to read your comments.

I have sent you a PM to resolve the matter.

Many Thanks

John Clayton
Operations Director
Richer Sounds
 

DrHarvey12

Well-known Member
Looks as though RS will settle this with you and I would be surprised if it wasn't to your liking. I have dealt with RS a few times in the past and have always found them very helpful when it came to after-sales service.

However I would definitely ask for a demo between the Yamaha and the Denon rather than just go for the Denon. I don't think you will really notice the difference in power between one or the other. Having used both YPAO and Audyssey I have found both pretty good. Audyssey may have the slight edge but neither made the AVR sound "worse".

I think a lot of the features of either model may go un-used. When I owned the Yamaha RX-A2040 I rarely if ever used the DSP modes which seem to be one of it's main USP. The other probably being build quality / reliability.

The Denon setup is arguably more comprehensive for a newbie but the Yamaha I found just as straightforward. The Denon has the pre-outs which you may never use.

The Denon would tend towards being warmer whereas the Yamaha presentation is a little more forward. If you are only really going to be watching films on it and listening to some music I would go for whichever one you feel sounds the best and pretty much remove the feature list / specifications from your mind. I would not be at all surprised if you opted for the Yamaha on "performance" alone.
 

Martyn Giles

Active Member
Looks as though RS will settle this with you and I would be surprised if it wasn't to your liking. I have dealt with RS a few times in the past and have always found them very helpful when it came to after-sales service.

However I would definitely ask for a demo between the Yamaha and the Denon rather than just go for the Denon. I don't think you will really notice the difference in power between one or the other. Having used both YPAO and Audyssey I have found both pretty good. Audyssey may have the slight edge but neither made the AVR sound "worse".

I think a lot of the features of either model may go un-used. When I owned the Yamaha RX-A2040 I rarely if ever used the DSP modes which seem to be one of it's main USP. The other probably being build quality / reliability.

The Denon setup is arguably more comprehensive for a newbie but the Yamaha I found just as straightforward. The Denon has the pre-outs which you may never use.

The Denon would tend towards being warmer whereas the Yamaha presentation is a little more forward. If you are only really going to be watching films on it and listening to some music I would go for whichever one you feel sounds the best and pretty much remove the feature list / specifications from your mind. I would not be at all surprised if you opted for the Yamaha on "performance" alone.

Interesting, thank you.

I have owned 4 receivers in the last 10ish years (a Sony from 2010, a Panasonic whose model slips my mind, an Onkyo TX-NR 609, my Pioneer SC-LX57, and now this one.

I'm normally pretty good with technology but I am on very strong painkillers nowa-days after an accident that left me with a very bad limp (and having to use a crutch) and the loss of the ability to use my right arm (a nasty condition called Complex regional pain syndrome is in both right arm and right leg)
I only explain this so that you can appreciate why, even though I considered myself a techie, I placed so much trust in the advice of the store staff. My painkillers make it very hard to concentrate and the pain levels make it hard to make a sensible decision so I let people talk me into things that I wouldn't have done before the accident.

I do prefer a warmer sound but who knows what either receiver would sound like in my front room... I do know that the Onkyos calibration software did the best job of a nice sound in my living room than any of the others I've used (I haven't used the Yamaha in case I choose to return it and incase having used it would exclude me from returns)

On an interesting note, I have found that Yamaha on a different website (exceptional-av.co.uk) for £479 where as I paid £529 for it from Richer sounds so I could get them to price match on the 7 day after purchase price match but I have no need for the refunded money, what I want is the best receiver for my money.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, you have given me a lot to think about.
 

fayeanddavid

Distinguished Member
Interesting, thank you.

I have owned 4 receivers in the last 10ish years (a Sony from 2010, a Panasonic whose model slips my mind, an Onkyo TX-NR 609, my Pioneer SC-LX57, and now this one.

I'm normally pretty good with technology but I am on very strong painkillers nowa-days after an accident that left me with a very bad limp (and having to use a crutch) and the loss of the ability to use my right arm (a nasty condition called Complex regional pain syndrome is in both right arm and right leg)
I only explain this so that you can appreciate why, even though I considered myself a techie, I placed so much trust in the advice of the store staff. My painkillers make it very hard to concentrate and the pain levels make it hard to make a sensible decision so I let people talk me into things that I wouldn't have done before the accident.

I do prefer a warmer sound but who knows what either receiver would sound like in my front room... I do know that the Onkyos calibration software did the best job of a nice sound in my living room than any of the others I've used (I haven't used the Yamaha in case I choose to return it and incase having used it would exclude me from returns)

On an interesting note, I have found that Yamaha on a different website (exceptional-av.co.uk) for £479 where as I paid £529 for it from Richer sounds so I could get them to price match on the 7 day after purchase price match but I have no need for the refunded money, what I want is the best receiver for my money.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, you have given me a lot to think about.
And most importantly Richer Sounds have stepped up to resolve.
Take your time, demo both, make a choice, take home and enjoy, stop worrying so much.
BTW the cheapest is not ever going to be the best supported as a recent thread between an OP and SuperFi can attest to.
You want longevity and service for your AV kit, pay the money....
 

Martyn Giles

Active Member
And most importantly Richer Sounds have stepped up to resolve.
Take your time, demo both, make a choice, take home and enjoy, stop worrying so much.
BTW the cheapest is not ever going to be the best supported as a recent thread between an OP and SuperFi can attest to.
You want longevity and service for your AV kit, pay the money....

I'm still waiting on them to make contact with me but hopefully we come to an agreement that we are both satisfied with.

Do you ha e a link to the post that you are talking about please?
 

Smudger1

Active Member
I'm still waiting on them to make contact with me but hopefully we come to an agreement that we are both satisfied with.

Do you ha e a link to the post that you are talking about please?

Have you checked your PMs? The RS guy above said he'd sent you something there...
 

Martyn Giles

Active Member
Have you checked your PMs? The RS guy above said he'd sent you something there...
Yes, I sent him my details at 8:30ish this morning.
I literally just got a call from them and they have offered me an exchange if I wish one but also they have offered to set both amps up so I can choose which one I prefer.
Very good of them I'd say.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yes, I sent him my details at 8:30ish this morning.
I literally just got a call from them and they have offered me an exchange if I wish one but also they have offered to set both amps up so I can choose which one I prefer.
Very good of them I'd say.

Sounds as though you've got everything you wanted :smashin:
 

tony nevitt

Active Member
I'm still waiting on them to make contact with me but hopefully we come to an agreement that we are both satisfied with.

Do you ha e a link to the post that you are talking about please?
I think the title of that thread is "bad service from superfi" or something very similar. It is under this category, so it shouldn't take too long to find.
 

Martyn Giles

Active Member
Sounds as though you've got everything you wanted :smashin:
I've got more than I could have asked for.
Because my brother in law was only able to take me to Maidstone tomorrow and the test room is fully booked the bloke i spoke to (named Tom) decided that I should try the Yamaha at home over the weekend, Tom is calling me on Monday... if I like it I keep it, if I don't like it they will send a courier with the Denon for me who will take the Yamaha in exchange for the Denon, if I like that I can keep it and I assume we'll sort the difference in price out, if I don't like it they'll send another courier to pick the Denon up and arrange for a full refund.
I couldn't ask for more!
I actually feel bad for complaining now :thumbsdow
I can't thank the people I've spoken to on here and Tom in particular enough.
The Yamaha is now out of the box for the first time and is updating, I'm hoping that I love the sound just so that I don't have to be more of a pain in the arse :D

Thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I've got more than I could have asked for.
Because my brother in law was only able to take me to Maidstone tomorrow and the test room is fully booked the bloke i spoke to (named Tom) decided that I should try the Yamaha at home over the weekend, Tom is calling me on Monday... if I like it I keep it, if I don't like it they will send a courier with the Denon for me who will take the Yamaha in exchange for the Denon, if I like that I can keep it and I assume we'll sort the difference in price out, if I don't like it they'll send another courier to pick the Denon up and arrange for a full refund.
I couldn't ask for more!
I actually feel bad for complaining now :thumbsdow
I can't thank the people I've spoken to on here and Tom in particular enough.
The Yamaha is now out of the box for the first time and is updating, I'm hoping that I love the sound just so that I don't have to be more of a pain in the arse :D

Thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it.

Play hardball with them and hang in there for a free mug :lesson:
 

Martyn Giles

Active Member
Play hardball with them and hang in there for a free mug :lesson:
Haha I did take a Loly pop when I was in the shop, I don't want to push them too much :rotfl:

Bit of an update on the Yamaha: it's not a bad amp, the sound is pretty good but the audio calibration software is the worst I have ever used! It is telling me that I have a speaker out of phase but won't tell me which one it is (I scoured the instruction manual that I downloaded and can't find a way to do it) and it does a really poor job of measuring the speaker distances, example: none of my speakers are over 7 feet from my viewing position but after running the software for the 1st time it said that the centre speaker is 6 metres away as does the rear right, it also says that the front right is nine metres away!
I had to mess around with all of the settings it came up with after running it 3 times (3 different settings each time too) to try for different results as it set the rear speakers so low that virtually no sound was coming out.... it actually sounded better out of the box initially!
I also had trouble getting the amp to play nicely with 4k HDR content on my xbox one s initially, I had to change a setting in the advanced menu which isn't a menu that can be accessed through the remote control while the amp is on, you have to fart around to get into it. Why it doesn't come setup this way out of the box is beyond me but it seems that one it's done it is done so it is a small annoyance.
As a movie surround sound amp I actually think it is very close to the Pioneer amp that I ready have although the Pioneers calibration software was better than the Yamahas.... I actually thought the Pioneers was bad until I used the Yamahas :rotfl:. I definitely prefer the Audyssey that was on the Onkyo Tx-nr609 I had about 6 years back.
It also does a really poor job of calibrating the sub woofer to the point where I don't think it actually did anything to it.


How do I recommend people's posts? I've noticed that people like a post or rate them as funny etc but I can't see that option.... is it because I'm using the mobile version if the site?
 

Smudger1

Active Member
Did you leave the room while it was doing its thing? The presence of a body in the vicinity can throw it off a bit. I had a similar issue with a crossed cable, but I'm pretty sure it told me which one. Or maybe I'm imagining it, and I knew because I'd only been fiddling with one speaker...
Ah, that's it. If you go back to the speaker map, where it shows the distances, I think it told me there. It was a while ago...
 

fayeanddavid

Distinguished Member
Haha I did take a Loly pop when I was in the shop, I don't want to push them too much :rotfl:

Bit of an update on the Yamaha: it's not a bad amp, the sound is pretty good but the audio calibration software is the worst I have ever used! It is telling me that I have a speaker out of phase but won't tell me which one it is (I scoured the instruction manual that I downloaded and can't find a way to do it) and it does a really poor job of measuring the speaker distances, example: none of my speakers are over 7 feet from my viewing position but after running the software for the 1st time it said that the centre speaker is 6 metres away as does the rear right, it also says that the front right is nine metres away!
I had to mess around with all of the settings it came up with after running it 3 times (3 different settings each time too) to try for different results as it set the rear speakers so low that virtually no sound was coming out.... it actually sounded better out of the box initially!
I also had trouble getting the amp to play nicely with 4k HDR content on my xbox one s initially, I had to change a setting in the advanced menu which isn't a menu that can be accessed through the remote control while the amp is on, you have to fart around to get into it. Why it doesn't come setup this way out of the box is beyond me but it seems that one it's done it is done so it is a small annoyance.
As a movie surround sound amp I actually think it is very close to the Pioneer amp that I ready have although the Pioneers calibration software was better than the Yamahas.... I actually thought the Pioneers was bad until I used the Yamahas :rotfl:. I definitely prefer the Audyssey that was on the Onkyo Tx-nr609 I had about 6 years back.
It also does a really poor job of calibrating the sub woofer to the point where I don't think it actually did anything to it.


How do I recommend people's posts? I've noticed that people like a post or rate them as funny etc but I can't see that option.... is it because I'm using the mobile version if the site?
And so the answer is..............

Are you staying with the Yamaha then??
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Play hardball with them and hang in there for a free mug :lesson:
If RS is watching this thread then the mug I was given with my purchase of a pair of AKG earphones has broken, the handle fell off:(. However the mug that came with the recently purchased Marantz CD 6006 is working fine:thumbsup:.

I've always had good trouble free service and advice from RS Cardiff.

Popty ping.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If RS is watching this thread then the mug I was given with my purchase of a pair of AKG earphones has broken, the handle fell off:(. However the mug that came with the recently purchased Marantz CD 6006 is working fine:thumbsup:.

I've always had good trouble free service and advice from RS Cardiff.

Popty ping.


Advice to anyone going to Gibbsy's house for tea, don't let him palm you off with the mug lacking a handle :lesson:
 

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