Question Advice on integrating XLS200 with B&W 602.5 s3

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by PorkPieCat, Jun 27, 2015.

  1. PorkPieCat

    PorkPieCat
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    I wanted to use the sub's high pass filter to filter out low frequencies from the main speakers, but apparently it doesn't have the outputs necessary for this to be possible with my stereo amp.

    Instead my sub and amp are connected via Neutrik speakon with my main speakers set to "large". They're rated down to 40hz at -6db, and 50hz +-3db. The speaker portholes have been bunged, so I imagine that would probably attenuate the bass somewhat.

    I'm fiddling with phase and gain by ear, but I'm wondering what a reasonable estimate for the frequency filter on the sub might be? There seems to be a very gradual rolloff on the sub above whatever the frequency is set and it's now set at 60hz. It doesn't sound completely right though, like there's a bit of a gap. Though setting it higher results in what sounds like too much volume in the 80hz area.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
  2. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    Set your B&W to small, but no lower than 40hz, ideally 50-80hz. Set the crossover on the subwoofer itself to maximum. For the AVR, set 120hz.

    Your speakers aren't full range, so don't set to large.

    Phase should be set at 0 on the subwoofer. If you have a modern AVR it should set phase in the AVR itself (as it is distance/delay) If you have a older AVR then buy a sound pressure meter and calibrate to 75dB. Read the bass management sticky.

    A high pass feature in a subwoofer is useful in a 2 channel hifi. Since you have a AVR, you already have bass management.

    I use high pass in my hifi, with a Outlaw ICBM-1 (in between pre and power) as the pre is a 2 channel analogue pre-amp.
     
  3. PorkPieCat

    PorkPieCat
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    I have a stereo amp, so I can't do the things you're talking about. I can only hope to set a good crossover and fiddle with phase and gain until everything sounds good.

    I imagine I might buy an SPL meter eventually, but before that I just want a good estimate - a sensible idea of what a good crossover frequency might be.
     
  4. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    You said it's set to large, that implies you have bass management (AVR) What exact amp do you have?

    Since you already have a sub, then the only way to get bass management is to use active crossover like Outlaw ICBM-1. But that will only work if your stereo amp is a pre-amp and you have pre-power (it goes between the two) Or your stereo amp has a pre-out & power amp in jacks. So you go pre-out from your amp, into the ICBM-1, out into the power amp in. Sub connected to ICBM-1.
     
  5. PorkPieCat

    PorkPieCat
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    Oh, my speakers are set to large at my source, which in this case is a computer. My amp is a standard stereo amp - Nad c340. It has pre-out and main-in. The sub has a crossover filter that allows setting between 120hz and 40hz, above which there is a gradual roll-off. It doesn't have high pass outputs though, so it can't be used to filter out bass from the main speakers.

    I'm not interested in buying an active crossover. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I'm going to stick with the method I have access to. Thanks though.
     
  6. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    Then all you can do is adjust the crossover on the sub itself. I'd try around 40hz.

    "It wouldn't be my first choice"

    It's your only choice, without selling off gear and buying other components to replace them, If you want to filter out low bass from L/R re-direct it to sub. Unless you

    a) replace the NAD with a AVR
    b) replace the subwoofer with one with high pass
     
  7. PorkPieCat

    PorkPieCat
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    Thanks, I'll try 40 then.

    That's what I meant - I don't have access to a different choice, which is why I'm doing it this way. Not too bummed though :D
     
  8. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    Do keep an eye out for a Outlaw ICBM-1. It's helped my 2 channel system. Integrating a subwoofer is much easier, there isn't low bass going to mains (and I can tweak it) Plus all done from front panel. They are pretty rare, and no longer made. They're usually used for DVD/SACD/BD 5.1 out into 5.1 rca in, if your source has lousy bass management features.

    https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/icbm.html

    Around £100 or so. I have it set to 60hz. It's easy to alter crossover, and subwoofer volume.
     
  9. PorkPieCat

    PorkPieCat
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    Thanks, I'll think about it.
     
  10. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    If you did buy a subwoofer with high pass, it'll be fixed anyway, usually 80hz. The higher end SVS subs with LCD screen have adjustable high pass (and slope) but those are £1400+

    You may find a 80hz crossover with those speakers too high. 80hz would be ideal if you had the B&W standmounts.

    My sub has a high pass, and I did use that for a while, but it's fixed 80hz. A bit too high for music system, my 45hz towers were a bit lacking in bass. Also, that means long stereo RCA cables from pre to sub then sub to power. With ICBM-1 you just need one from ICBM to sub,
     
  11. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    There's this, which is a high pass for your speakers, but no sub out. Again pre-out from NAD, into the HSU, then back into the NAD. So I guess you'll still send full-range from your amp to the sub, and use the subs own crossover.

    http://hsuresearch.com/products/high-pass-filter.html

    It's customizable, from the factory with two filters, so not too bad.
     
  12. PorkPieCat

    PorkPieCat
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    I like the look of that. I'll read up on it a bit more, and if it's good and they post to the UK I might pull the trigger
     
  13. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    It has a pre-amp though, you don't want? Because pre-power link means NAD preamp is active. Since that HSU lacks sub out, the front volume dial is useless.

    Think you want one where it's fixed level?

    There's this but it's pretty expensive

    HSU High-end Crossover
     
  14. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    There's the Paradigm X-30 as well. Paradigm X-20 but that is more suited to high level applications
     

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