Advice on Film Club equipment

[drawg]

Hi, I've just been asked to help organise a film club for our village. I would be most grateful for advice on the sort of equipment we should think about getting together. We will be using the village hall which is about 60ft long, 40ft wide with a very high ceiling - probbaly about 30ft. We will be restricted to an audience of about 100.

We will not be allowed to leave anything on site so it will all have to be easily portable.

I am imagining a digital projector, portable screen, DVD player and surround sound system preferably with wireless speakers at the back.

I am familiar with home systems but have no idea whether domestic equipment would work in this environment. Cost is obviously a factor as well.

All advice welcome, thanks.

 

[BlueWizard]

Give us an idea of your budget, as that, more than anything, will drive responses.

In general, it sounds expensive.

To make this work, you are going to need a highly reflective screen, a simple bedsheet is not going to do.

Next, bare minimum, you will need a 7.1 or 7.2 system, meaning speakers at the front, center, back, side, and one or two Subwoofers.

Ideally, you would need a 9.2 system with two sets of speakers on each side. But that is going to be difficult and expensive.

For an amp, something pretty substantial. It is much easier to fill your living room that it is a room this size.

Speakers, again substantial, floorstanding in front or good full range PA speakers.

The most critical speaker in the entire mix will be the center speaker. Too many skimp here. This is the speaker that will reproduce the bulk of the dialog, and as such, I would recommend a good quality floorstanding speaker here too. Ideally, you should have the same speakers across the front; left/center/right.

Next, in a home cinema room, it is not that hard for all the people to hear the sound because a vast majority have a line of sight to the speakers. But in a room full of 100 people, the people in the middle and at the back, while they may have line of sight to the Screen, they will not have line of sight to all the speakers.

Which means all the speakers must be up higher than they would be in a home system, and must be angled toward the center of the listening mass. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Let's start with budget. As I said, more than anything that will drive what we recommend.

Steve/bluewizard

 

[kbfern]

As blue wizard has said some idea of a budget would be useful.

I do see problems for you though in a room so big/with 100 people viewing and having to remove all the equipment after each use.

The projector it self should not be too much of a problem and £1k should cover it as long as you don't want a top quality unit capable of blu-ray playback at 1080p and only dvd as you suggested.

The screen could be more problematic as large screens cost money.A 12ft wide portable screen like the one below will cost best part of £800.

For a room your size this would be the minimum I would recomend.If this sort of budget is to high does the room have a large enough wall without windows and doors in a white or light colour that you could project onto as this would cost nothing.

Lastly sound,for something on a temp setup a dj type pa system is probably going to be your best bet using just a couple of speakers and forgeting surround sound.

I don't know what these cost but would think £1000 or so should probably be enough.Obviously this is not home cinema quality but will provide enough volume that everyone can hear the movie.

PA Equipment – Wireless Public Address Systems – SoundPlus 'Tramp' and 'Champ' Range

The unit below may be Ok at under £500 then add a dvd player for £50.


Peavey Escort 3000 Portable PA System - Nevada Music

Fastfold Portable Projection Screen the M644 screen would be best.

 

[drawg]

Thanks very much to both of you - that's very helpful. We are still working on it but I think the max budget will be £5,000 as I believe there are grants available up to this figure.

The emphasis will be on portability as it will probably rest with two people each month to do the setup. I get the impression that the sound equipment is going to be the biggest decision. The room is quite high and has no soft furnishings but I guess once its full of people the acoustics won't be too bad.

I don't think there is a wall suitable to project onto so it will have to be a portable screen. 12ft sounds about right - is that on the diagonal?

Any mire thoughts would be most welcome.

Regards.

 

[BlueWizard]

How much of the actual 60ftx40ft floor space will you actually use? Will that space be completely (more or less) filled with people, or will a smaller area be set aside for film viewing.

Also, have you consider the public ramification of public showing of films? Royalties, copyrights, and all that.

One problem you will have with a large crowd is the placement of the speakers. You will notice that most movie theaters have the screen and the front and center speakers up on the stage above the seated crowd.

If the speakers are down on the floor where the people are seated, it is going to be massively loud for the people in front, and hard to hear for the people in the middle of the crowd. In a sense, all the people around you are going to be blocking the sound for the people in the middle.

PA speakers can be placed on large stands to raise them up. PA speakers, while not the best is reproduction of sound, are rugged and made to be moved around. You don't mind too much of you scratch a speaker loading it into and out of a van. However if you have fine wood stereo speakers, you aren't going to feel too good about scratching them.

100 people equals 10 rows of 10 people; what kind of chairs will they be in? Common folding chairs? I'm asking to get a sense of how much space the people will take up relative to how big the room is.

If you can get the side and rear speakers up and back a ways from the people, the sound will blend that much better.

The front and center are going to have to be high enough to be heard in the middle and at the back of the room.

Here is an example of some MACKIE PA speaker and a link to some stands that were recommended for them -

The Speakers -

Mackie SRM450 v2 BLUE Bundle (Inc. FREE STANDS - EXCLUSIVE DEAL)

The Stands -

Kinsman Speaker Stands and FREE Carry Bag

Here are some other speakers shown on stands -

Yamaha STAGEPAS 300 + Stands

HK Audio Lucas Max PA system

I'm not recommending these, I just want to give you an idea of the type of PA equipment we are talking about. Speakers like this are available from a variety of manufactures at a variety of prices from amazingly cheap to outrageously expensive.

I would suggest a pair of 12" to 15" speakers for the front. Perhaps a single 10" to 12" for the center of a style similar to that show in the links above. 8" to 10" for the side speakers, and similar for the rear surrounds.

For subwoofers, I'm not sure, I really haven't checked out PA subwoofers. But for 100 people, I would expect a pair of 12" to 15" subs.

Placing and aiming the subs is something of a problem, and I'll have to think on that. Again, it gets down to how much of the hall space the people will take up and how much room there is between the speakers and the crowd.

In AV amp, I would suggest a good amp in roughly the £1000 to £2000 range, though I can't think of any specific models at the moment.

What I'm suggesting is a standard high-power high-quality AV amp with passive speakers. An alternative might be a AV pre-amp with active PA speakers. Meaning, an expensive AV pre-amp, but speakers that each have their own amplifiers built into them. The Dolphin Music site linked to above has both types. The problem is AV pre-amps cost a king's ransom. I would expect about £2000 to easily £3000, but it might be a possible option.

For a screen, I'm at a loss for a 12 foot diagonal portable screen. I'm sure someone makes one, I'm just not sure who.

Does anyone else have any other suggestions???


Steve/bluewizard

 

[rld]

How much of the actual 60ftx40ft floor space will you actually use? Will that space be completely (more or less) filled with people, or will a smaller area be set aside for film viewing.

Also, have you consider the public ramification of public showing of films? Royalties, copyrights, and all that.

One problem you will have with a large crowd is the placement of the speakers. You will notice that most movie theaters have the screen and the front and center speakers up on the stage above the seated crowd.

If the speakers are down on the floor where the people are seated, it is going to be massively loud for the people in front, and hard to hear for the people in the middle of the crowd. In a sense, all the people around you are going to be blocking the sound for the people in the middle.

PA speakers can be placed on large stands to raise them up. PA speakers, while not the best is reproduction of sound, are rugged and made to be moved around. You don't mind too much of you scratch a speaker loading it into and out of a van. However if you have fine wood stereo speakers, you aren't going to feel too good about scratching them.

100 people equals 10 rows of 10 people; what kind of chairs will they be in? Common folding chairs? I'm asking to get a sense of how much space the people will take up relative to how big the room is.

If you can get the side and rear speakers up and back a ways from the people, the sound will blend that much better.

The front and center are going to have to be high enough to be heard in the middle and at the back of the room.

Here is an example of some MACKIE PA speaker and a link to some stands that were recommended for them -

The Speakers -

Mackie SRM450 v2 BLUE Bundle (Inc. FREE STANDS - EXCLUSIVE DEAL)

The Stands -

Kinsman Speaker Stands and FREE Carry Bag

Here are some other speakers shown on stands -

Yamaha STAGEPAS 300 + Stands

HK Audio Lucas Max PA system

I'm not recommending these, I just want to give you an idea of the type of PA equipment we are talking about. Speakers like this are available from a variety of manufactures at a variety of prices from amazingly cheap to outrageously expensive.

I would suggest a pair of 12" to 15" speakers for the front. Perhaps a single 10" to 12" for the center of a style similar to that show in the links above. 8" to 10" for the side speakers, and similar for the rear surrounds.

For subwoofers, I'm not sure, I really haven't checked out PA subwoofers. But for 100 people, I would expect a pair of 12" to 15" subs.

Placing and aiming the subs is something of a problem, and I'll have to think on that. Again, it gets down to how much of the hall space the people will take up and how much room there is between the speakers and the crowd.

In AV amp, I would suggest a good amp in roughly the £1000 to £2000 range, though I can't think of any specific models at the moment.

What I'm suggesting is a standard high-power high-quality AV amp with passive speakers. An alternative might be a AV pre-amp with active PA speakers. Meaning, an expensive AV pre-amp, but speakers that each have their own amplifiers built into them. The Dolphin Music site linked to above has both types. The problem is AV pre-amps cost a king's ransom. I would expect about £2000 to easily £3000, but it might be a possible option.

For a screen, I'm at a loss for a 12 foot diagonal portable screen. I'm sure someone makes one, I'm just not sure who.

Does anyone else have any other suggestions???


Steve/bluewizard

Hi
I have been running a village hall film club for 8 years (in East Devon) with a colleague

Currently use a 4k BenQ projector and a Sony Blu ray player
For sound we use 5 x Proel (Italian) Flash 8a; 2x Flash 12a; 2x DSP110 'The Box - and a Proel 15" subwoofer. 3 x 8as are centre speakers on stage by screen (drop down) 2x 12as are on stands either side of screen. 2x dsp110 are side left and right and the other 2 x 8a are back right and left.
It all 'evolved' rather than planned from the start and with a membership of 100 we paid as we went from, initially, front speakers only, to what we have now.
We have to set it up once a month from scratch bringing the stuff in my car to the hall. Luckily I live nearby.

We use an Arcam avr888 processor which although now discontinued is absolutely brilliant at separating the channels. (single coax connection from blu ray player to arcam) That connects to all the speakers (with the 3x 8a centre speakers 'daisy chained just one centre output on Arcam..
I also use a mixer in the final output so I can turn down or up a particular speaker if somebody shouts 'too loud' or 'can't hear a thing'!

I am now over 70 and getting a bit creaky so all the carrying of heavy active speakers and other equipment is becoming more arduous. So I am now looking to sell all the active speakers and replace them with a 7 channel amplifier and passive speakers (lighter to carry and no mains needed to set up round the hall. I hope it will end up as good as now but I will be asking for advice on what speakers to get!
Richard D

 

[BlueWizard]

Hi
I have been running a village hall film club for 8 years (in East Devon) with a colleague

Currently use a 4k BenQ projector and a Sony Blu ray player
For sound we use 5 x Proel (Italian) Flash 8a; ...

We use an Arcam avr888 processor which although now discontinued is absolutely brilliant at separating the channels. ...

I am now over 70 and getting a bit creaky so all the carrying of heavy active speakers and other equipment is becoming more arduous. So I am now looking to sell all the active speakers and replace them with a 7 channel amplifier and passive speakers (lighter to carry and no mains needed to set up round the hall. I hope it will end up as good as now but I will be asking for advice on what speakers to get!
Richard D

Curious, how big what the hall that you were in, and typically how many people were at a showing?

Here are your front speakers - 8 inch -

Proel FLASH 8A 8" 2 Way 230W RMS Active Speaker - Proel from Visiosound UK

FLASH 8A 8" 2 Way 230W RMS Active Speaker Proel PA & Live Sound Active, Front of House (FOH), 8", 4 @ Visiosound

www.visiosound.co.uk

Proel Flash 8A V2 300w Professional Active Loudspeaker @ Audio Works

Get the PROEL FLASH8AV2 300W Professional Active Speaker from Audio Works UK, The best prices in the UK for Pro Audio Equipment - Proel Main Dealer - Huge Stocks - Free Postage

www.theaudioworksuk.com

There are a lot of variables to consider in such an endevor - Room Acoustics, total number of people viewing, Driver Size, and many other factors.

But it sounds like the system you had was doing the job for you. Did you have the speakers up on Stands? Just the front or all of them?

Steve/bluewizard

 

[rld]

Curious, how big what the hall that you were in, and typically how many people were at a showing?

Here are your front speakers - 8 inch -

Proel FLASH 8A 8" 2 Way 230W RMS Active Speaker - Proel from Visiosound UK

FLASH 8A 8" 2 Way 230W RMS Active Speaker Proel PA & Live Sound Active, Front of House (FOH), 8", 4 @ Visiosound

www.visiosound.co.uk

Proel Flash 8A V2 300w Professional Active Loudspeaker @ Audio Works

Get the PROEL FLASH8AV2 300W Professional Active Speaker from Audio Works UK, The best prices in the UK for Pro Audio Equipment - Proel Main Dealer - Huge Stocks - Free Postage

www.theaudioworksuk.com

There are a lot of variables to consider in such an endevor - Room Acoustics, total number of people viewing, Driver Size, and many other factors.

But it sounds like the system you had was doing the job for you. Did you have the speakers up on Stands? Just the front or all of them?

Steve/bluewizard

Hi
Hall is 13m x 8m and usually anything between 60 and 120 people. about 80 for Sully and about 120 for to kill a mocking bird!
All speakers on stands.
We started with 2 x 8a and a bass 15a cabinet. All active . we then acquired 2x12a

Proel Flash 12A 12" 250W RMS Professional Active Loudspeaker - Proel from Visiosound UK

Flash 12A 12" 250W RMS Professional Active Loudspeaker Proel PA & Live Sound Active, Front of House (FOH), 12", 22 @ Visiosound

www.visiosound.co.uk

Then 3 more 8a using one as centre and 2 as back speakers ; 2x the Box Dsp110
the box pro DSP 110.
so 12A s and 8a at front on stands and bass on floor of hall, 2 dsp110 as side spkrs and 2x 8as at back. The original 8as (2 ) we keep for spares. i.e if the controls go wrong or a crackle heard then we simply swap the amp unit from an old 8a .

Unfortunately Proel becoming less available and reliable. But they are good as active speakers .
All our stuff, apart from the projector, blu ray player and the THE Box dsp110 s x2,
is second hand. Total probable resale value of speakers I would say is about £2500 (on ebay)
Room acoustics are sorted out bu the Arcam 888 which come with a microphone thing that I put on a tripod equidistant from where the chairs are laid out. Quick measuremnts from each speaker to the mic. and then put them into the arcam with the remote control.
Bohemian Rhapsody film was brilliant in 7.1
Richard

 

[rld]

Bit slow in replying to question about licence etc- sorry. It seems there is a choice between single title licence and a PVSL - (Public video screening Licence)
We use the latter and for a village hall club with closed membership it's about £100 a year. We are not allowed to advertise and we don't. People know we show films on a fixed saturday each month and we let them know each time what we will show next time.
Single title Licence costs for each film (can be quite a lot. It is more flexible.We used that initially but realised we didn't need it.

 

[jamieu]

Not sure if you have looked at either of these sites, but both have details on how to licence films legally for one-off and community cinema projects, as well as the various grants you can apply for,.

• Cinema For All - Helping communities screen films
• Screening films in community cinemas - Independent Cinema Office