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Advice on DVD Writing

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by Dan666, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. Dan666

    Dan666
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    Not sure if this is the correct place for this thread, so feel free to move it.

    Ive been reading through Spectre's post regrading DVD backups, and it insipred me to do a couple of my own. Ive been really pleased with the results.

    Basically, Id like to back up just the video and 6ch soundtrack of some of my most watched films, then burn them to DVD. This would get rid of things like menu screens, disclaimers, copyright notices and dreaded trailers which used to be the bane of my R1 collection but now look as though theyre cropping up on R2s aswell (Phonebooth!). Another advantage would be to miss out Arnie's dire introduction of T3 :mad: . It would be great to be able to take a case off the shelf, take out my backup rather then the original, and not have to wade through all that crap just to get to the film itself.

    Does this sound plausible? Is there any noticeable difference between the original and a backed-up, written to DVD-R copy?

    Also, I have no DVD Writer at present. So I need hardware recommendations and maybe a bit of help with the terminology. Ive heard of formats like DVD+ and DVD-, as well as DVD-R and DVD-RW.

    Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated.

    TIA
     
  2. TEK

    TEK
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    To get a retail DVD onto DVDR you have to get the size of the files down to fit on the single layer DVDR. This usually involves re-conpressing the video stream with software like DVD2One or DVD Shrink. By only keeping the main film and one soundtrack you stand a better chance of the files being small enough to fit anyway or needing less re-compressing so your final result should be good/excellent quality.

    Both DVD2One and DVD Shrink (and many others) will do what you require

    www.dvd2one.com
    www.dvdshrink.org

    As for the DVDR format most good drives do both these days. Personally I stick with DVD-R but maybe you should do a few test with both on the harware you're going to play them back on and make your own decision

    The Pioneer A06/106 is very cheap at the moment and has good firmware support.

    www.aria.co.uk/productInfoComm.asp?ID=8437
    www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?product_uid=49638
    web6.scan.co.uk/Products/Info.asp?WPID=67865

    For your blank media I'd stick with a decent branded disc with a Ritek dye. Don't be tempted by the real cheapies like Princo but as ever, have a test on your own playback device as some people get away with it.

    http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/
     
  3. Dan666

    Dan666
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    Thanks for the info TEK, that Pioneer drive looks like bloody good VFM.

    I suspected the layer issue might be a problem - looks like home-user technology still has a bit of ground to cover in this area.

    If Im right in thinking that I can only fit 4.7Gb of data onto each DVD-R, then I dont think this is going to be viable. I've just backed up Spy Game, and thats over 6Gb. Im not keen on using further compression because I want it exactly as it came on the original - but I'll give those programs u mentioned a whirl anyway.

    Can anyone shed any further light on the + and - formats? Whats the difference between them, and how are they important?
     
  4. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    DVDshrink does a great job. Even further compressing you'll not get too much of a quality hit. You will however need seperate burning software that is "DVD-Video aware", as DVDshrink doesn't do any burning.

    Most modern players play "-R" & "+R" fine. "-" has been around a little bit longer so has probably slightly more backward compatability (IMHO) but buy quality discs to burn to which ever format you get. Cheap generics are false economy.

    You can check the compatability of stand alone players at these sites
    http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers
    http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Compatibility.asp?mid=0&sid=2&aid=59

    You can check the "-" & "+" sticky in the "DVD Recorders & Media" section on this forum for people's views as well.
     
  5. mph8873

    mph8873
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    I bought myself a Plextor PX-708-A (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=UFNTaG93UmVzdWx0cw==) - now only £170, I paid £200 for the privelage of having one of the first ones. It comes with a great software bundle (Pinncale 8 is great for editing camcorder footage) and has the benchmark 8x for DVD+R as well as very respectable writing speeds for CD-R / RW's.

    It also writes DVD-R's to allow you to keep your options open altho my feeling is that DVD+ format will become the dominant format (however, I may be wrong!).

    Basically, the difference between DVD+ and DVD- is the way in which the discs are written and read - just two ways of skinning the cat so to speak. I have tried my DVD+ discs in many players now - including many players that state they only play DVD- and have never had a problem - this includes Sony's, Toshiba's, Pioneers and some of the cheaper Tescos players.

    So there are two formats - "+" and "-", and with each you can have either DVD+R or DVD+RW and DVD-R and DVD-RW. The difference between R and RW is that R only allows you to write to the disc once and once only where as RW allows you to write to the disc, erase from the disc and re-write to the disc as many times as you like (roughly 1,000 times before they wear out!) - just like CD-R/RW's.

    As mentioned in the thread, the DVD's that are currently available are only single layer 4.7gb discs which will store about 2hours of footage, however, new 8.5gb dual layer discs are due out in 2004 in the "+" format... i guess these will then hold up to 3.5 - 4hrs in the way that conventional DVD's do that some prerecorded.

    Hope that helps!
     
  6. mph8873

    mph8873
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    sorry - that link didn't work properly... but if you search PX708A on the site then it will take you straight there!
     
  7. Dan666

    Dan666
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    Thanks for the input mph - so what you're saying is that there's little or no difference between th + and - formats, apart from compatibility issues?

    Ive gone ahead and ordered the Pioneer DVDRW from ebuyer. I figure that the new dual-layer burning drives will not hit these shores til late '04 and will cost a fortune. In the meantime, Ive tried a couple more of my films with DVD Shrink and the encoded output is very good.

    Thanks for all your contributions!
     
  8. parky43007

    parky43007
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    Another newbie here.
    Some good clarification in these threads. However, I have a question about soundtracks. Can the 5.1 soundtrack be recorded aswell?
     
  9. EricTheO

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    Nero has a program called "Recode" that will shrink DVD's, with the exception of some copyrighted disks
     
  10. mph8873

    mph8873
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    Dan, as far as I understand it, yes it's just compatibility issues. A few of the techies may argue that there pro's and con's between the methods used but from my point of view, they are unnoticeable. "+" wins for me cos of the faster writng speeds! :)

    So have you heard that dual layer writing will need a special dual layer drive? I was kinda hoping that it could be sorted via a firmware upgrade...
     
  11. mph8873

    mph8873
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    Parky, yes 5.1 can also be recorded - I have done this many times and my amp recognises it just fine!
     
  12. Dan666

    Dan666
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    I have heard that it may be possible to upgrade some high-end 8x drives. I read somewhere that the intensity of the laser needs to be increased in order for it to be able to 'see through' the top layer and only read the base layer. These drives are technically capable of doing this, but the firmware would need to be altered.

    I think the main stumbling block is still the cost of producing the blank dual-layer media.
     
  13. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    I have tried the dvd shrink program to back up a dvd. It works perfectly but the resultant files are not recognised by the software that came with the writer.
    Is there any freeware around that will write this file to a -R?, as I am reluctant to purchase nero as I prefer Roxio and may get that eventually. Will roxio's product burn a dvd from that data?
     
  14. parky43007

    parky43007
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    Does anyone know the difference between DVDshrink and the Beta version??
    Hope this is not a stupid question - I'm new to this!
     
  15. Solar

    Solar
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    dvd shrink is only good for duplicating dvds

    if you want to take the just the movie and soundtrack you are going to have to do this manualy with various programs, and that means encoding the film yourself which can take hours (depending on your pc)
    ive been encoding films for a long time now, i have tried almost everyway of doing it. I found the only good way is to rip the movie and soundtrack from the dvd, encode them together, author the movie then burn it to disc
    everything you need to know can be found at www.dvdrhelp.com
    you "want" to learn because its not just a click and go like nero, there is quite a lot to take in
     
  16. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    ????

    DVD shrink can perform two ways

    You can duplicate the whole disc (including menus etc) to DVD folders for burning to DVD-R. This obviously uses compression.

    OR

    You can take which ever titles , subtitles & soundtracks you want & create DVD folders with these. (With this you will lose the menus) There is no compression performed with this.

    If you have a really long movie what you can do is.......

    Select just the main feature & 5.1 soundtrack create DVD folders of these.
    Then run the program again, this time running the DVD folders you created through it , compressing & re-encoding so that they fit on a DVD-R. (I find the re-encoding is relatively quick.)

    I've done that double process on about 170mins of main movie & the results were very impressive IMHO.
     
  17. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Not all burning applications are "DVD-Video" aware. It is important that they are because the files have to burned in a very particular way to conform.

    With each application you use the process will vary a little, for instance

    I use RecordNow Max for burning (RecordNow Max was formerly known as Veritas/Prassi Primo) .This has an option (enabled by default) to recognise that when you try to burn VIDEO_TS folders you are creating a DVD-Video disc & it will burn them to spec.

    For RecordNow Max you have to choose a "Data Disc" job & load the VIDEO_TS folder at root level (not inside any other folder) for success.


    With Nero by contrast you have to choose a "DVD-Video" job & load the VIDEO_TS folder at root level.
    Earlier versions of Nero were reported to produce a lot of non compliant discs, so make sure you have an upto date version.

    Sorry never used Roxio though so can't talk about that. Always found RecordNow to be too reliable & easy to change.
     
  18. Solar

    Solar
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    hey i never knew that :D
    i just had the option to shrink a whole dvd :(
     
  19. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Yep

    Choose "Full Disk" option to make a duplicate
    Choose "Re-Author" option to select only the titles etc you want.
    :D

    (At least that is with version 2.3 that I use)
     
  20. lynx

    lynx
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    Dvd Shrink does all of this - only burning is not achieved without additional software.
    Dvd Shrink enables decrypting, region free, reauthoring etc etc.
     
  21. dr_mabuse

    dr_mabuse
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    I use DVDShrink v3.05 (beta) and it is awesome. I almost always use re-author, chuck away all the other crap and just take the movie, the 5.1 (or DTS if it's there), and no subs.

    With deep analysis switched on, you get a great result and it fits it to your DVD for you - earlier versions gave you static compression levels, which was frustrating if one level was only a fraction too big, but the next level down was way too small. It also keeps all the original chapter points and there's no noticeable layer point anymore :smashin:

    If you are working with DVD's of the same region as your DVD drive's RP patch, you don't even have to copy the files to your hard drive first - although this is personal choice of many rippers.

    Go get it, set it, forget it. With a reasonable PC it's done and dusted in around half an hour. As others have noted already, there's tons of help at doom9.org

    HTH

    dr_m

    edit: I almost forgot, if you're not sure about writing software, just make the finished project into an image file and use DVDDecrypter - ISO Write mode - done!
     
  22. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    What I didn't realise is that if the data produced by dvdshrink is saved in a foder called VIDEO_TS, it is then recognised by windvd and plays as a dvd. (Power dvd and intervideo appear to be only able to play a dvd in a drive)
    Presumably a data dvd created by my basic writer software will then play as a dvd if this folder is added. Previously I just burnt the data direct to the dvd without the folder. I am just about to try this, and if it works will not have to buy another writing program as this one will do everything I need.

    Interestingly it appears to be impossible to label a folder as VIDEO_TS as I can't type the _? Have had to resort to copying the folder from a working region 0 dvd removing the contents and replacing with the dvd I wish to burn from dvd shrink?
     
  23. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    PowerDVD can playback from VIDEO_TS files on hard disk

    Just select the source as "Open DVD File on Hard Disk Drive" then select the VIDEO_TS.IFO folder



    With regards to burning a VIDEO_TS folder
    It is true that if you open a commercial DVD wih Windows explorer the firts file you will see is the VIDEO_TS folder, but you can't just add MPEG files into a VIDEO_TS folder & expect them to play on a stand alone player (if that's what you are trying to do?)

    Inside the VIDEO_TS folder will be specific DVD-Video files that have to made with an authoring program. These will be .IFO , .VOB & .BUP files

    If you have a correctly authored VIDEO_TS folder it can be burnt as a data DVD for playback in stand alone player provided the burning application is "DVD-Video aware" and therefore will lay the files out in the correct order.
     
  24. dr_mabuse

    dr_mabuse
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    kenfowler3966

    Hmmm. The standard DVD Video file structure MUST contain all the relevant files in a folder called VIDEO_TS to comform to the DVD standard. (Indeed for maximum playability, there should be an empty AUDIO_TS folder as well - this is usually created by most automated DVD writing software such as Nero etc).

    PowerDVD WILL playback files in the destination folder you specify in DVDShrink, you just have to select the option called "Open DVD file on Hard Disk" and locate the video_ts.ifo file. I use it all the time to test playback on DVDShrink rips prior to burning. Or use the "Add media files from Disk" mode and manually select all the files - it works either way.

    Your issues may be connected to you not building a DVD-Video structure, rather a Data DVD as you describe.

    To get the _ in VIDEO_TS, just hit Shift and "-" it's next to 0 on standard keyboards.

    What software is your "basic writing software"? I suspect that if you use a software that supports a "Wizard" for creating standard DVD-Video mode discs you will have no problems.

    Alternatively you can use a tool like ImgTool to create one large .iso or .img file from the DVDShrink files, then burn it with DVDDecrypter.

    Let us know.

    dr_m
     
  25. Orbital

    Orbital
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    One of the Mods should make this thread into a sticky, as I've learnt more about burning DVD's in the last 10 minutes reading this thread than I have in the last 6 months getting info off the web!

    Nice one guys :smashin:
     
  26. dr_mabuse

    dr_mabuse
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    Orbital: :D

    I think half the trick is deciding what you DON'T need to bother with, not what you do.

    DVDShrink and other compression tools like it just make it easy.

    Nuff said

    dr_m
     
  27. lynx

    lynx
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    ddlooping is the one to advise on this,however-

    - Better quality of backups when a fairly high level of compression is required (especially when using "Deep analysis").
    - The compression can now be set to "Automatic".
    - No more "Levels" of compression. You can now manually set it by 1% increment/decrement.
    - You can make compilations, join "flippers".
    - Removal of RCE, Macrovision, PUOs ("Prohibited user operations)".
    - Better target size estimate.

    http://www.dvdshrink.info/
     
  28. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    I have now succesfully created a dvd backup by saving the dvd shrink output into a folder called VIDEO_TS, and this then burned to a dvd as a data disc using the B'gold software that came with the writer. Didn't need to add an empty audion folder as well as suggested above.

    I know where the _ is on the keyboard, but I cant type this character into a folder name. The only way I have found to create the right folder name is to copy an existing folder and delete the contents so it can be re-used.
     
  29. Dan666

    Dan666
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    Well Ive had my Pioneer 106D for a couple of days now, and Im well impressed.

    Im using DVDShrink to lift just the main video and audio tracks, and then encode them using Deep Analysis. I then write them using Nero 6 and the result is a transfer which is virtually indistinguishable from the original.

    Top stuff.
     
  30. ddlooping

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    Hi all. :)

    "dvd shrink is only good for duplicating dvds"
    You couldn't be "wronger" Solar. :D

    DVD Shrink allows you to do "full-disc", "movie-only", "compilations", "split-to-2-discs" backups, and almost anything in-between. ;)

    I'd suggest you view the user-friendly guides at:
    http://www.dvdshrink.info

    P.S: Oops, I replied to wronger's post without having seen there was a second page to this thread. :blush:
     

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