Advice on AV receiver.

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Hogan71088, Oct 9, 2017.

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    1. Hogan71088

      Hogan71088
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      Hi all,

      I'm moving into a new build that has been wired with audio cable in the living room and kitchen, a total of 4x in ceiling speakers. I've also bought a 65 inch Sony xe90. Would you be able to recommend a suitable AVR? Will obviously need enough connections for 4x speakers and I will possible look at adding 2 more speakers and a sound bar eventually.

      Also I'm assuming I need an AVR that supports 4K to the TV. Should I be looking at a receiver that supports Atmos? Likewise with the in ceiling speakers.

      I was looking at the YAMAHA RXV583.
       
    2. dante01

      dante01
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      I think you should have researched the speakers before committing yourself to ceiling speakers prior to purchasing the AV receiver. THe ceiling speakers may be used in an Atmos setup, but only for Atmos effects and only if placed where it would be suggested such speakers be located. Where are your ceiling speakers located in your main listening room?

      You'll also not be able to use a soundbar in conjunction with an AV receiver. They both serve the same purpose and you either use one or the other and not both. A soundbar simply integrates the speakers into the same unit doing the audio processing and amplification.

      Note that if wanting an AV receiver to power both a 5.1.2 Atmos setup in the main room as well as a pair of second zone speakers in another zone then you'd need at least a 9 channel AV receiver. The RXV583 only has 7 channels of amplificatio so you'd only be able to fascilitate a 5.1 (non Atmos) setup in the main room if also wanting to have a second audio zone and power another two speakers in your kitchen.
       
      Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
    3. Hogan71088

      Hogan71088
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      Okay thanks for your reply. Well maybe lets forget the Atmos setup for the moment, all I really want is an AV receiver that I can connect the four in ceiling speakers that will allow me to play the TV audio through the speakers and also allow me to use spotify. So maybe I should just be looking at a more entry level receiver?
       
    4. Thatsnotmynaim

      Thatsnotmynaim
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      Ceiling speakers are not ideal for AV duties other than ATMOS effect speakers to ADD to an existing 5.1/7.1 setup. If you just want it to make some noise then wire them up with any AV amp. You’ll probably find most members on here are probably after a more traditional experience in which the main 5 AV speakers are at ear level 3 in front (Left, Right and most importantly Centre) and 2 or 4 rears behind.
       
    5. dante01

      dante01
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      You'd still need a 7 channel AV receiver if still wanting one that can give you the option of an additional second audio zone. The RXV581 can power both the main room speakers while powering the second zone speakers. It can also play network and analogue sources in the second zpne independantly of whatever source is playing in the main room. The only thing it cannot do is play audio sourced via either HDMI or S/PDIF digital inputs in the second zone.
       
    6. Rambles

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      Are you looking for an amplifier to power 2 x in ceiling speakers in one room PLUS 2 x in ceiling speakers in another room? And you just want to input the TV into it? You don't need an AVR for that, just a stereo amplifier with speaker A + B output. For spotify you could use a £30 chromecast audio.
       
    7. Khazul

      Khazul
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      It that common now? New builds with ceiling speakers already built in?

      It sound to me more trouble than it is worth. I wouldnt want to use them (unless they just happen to be in ideal location and good enough for atmos) and at the same time knowing they are there and unused would probably bug me as well :)

      After issues in this house I'm deeply skeptical of anything built in that may have a potentially limited life (it seems loads of MR16 lighting transformers have died and no idea where they are, certainly not where I might have expected).

      I'm tempted to suggest you just pretend they are not there, think of the AV setup you actually want, then decide if they are useful in that setup. I suspect being focused on them to start with will just cause more trouble than its worth.
       
    8. Hogan71088

      Hogan71088
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      That's pretty much it, 4 speakers in total, 2 in each room.

      The rooms are reasonably small (3.3m x 5.2m) and the speakers will be fitted fairly central in both rooms. Maybe I should clarify, I'm not looking for a complete immersive audio experience, just something casual.
       
    9. Hogan71088

      Hogan71088
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      Are in ceiling speakers that bad?
       
    10. dante01

      dante01
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      Ceiling speakers are not ideal because you need speakers to be at head height in order for them to be able to create stereoscopic and or surround sound. A basic 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound setup would ideally have all the 5 or 7 speakers at your seated head height. It is only when wanting an Atmos setup that ceiling speakers are employed and these would be located above you in order to help portray a 3D imersive effect and to give the effect of overhead audio.
       
    11. Khazul

      Khazul
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      No - you can get great ceiling speakers (as far sticking something in the ceiling goes), just like you can get great wall embeds done.

      However I would be very surprised if the average building company used anything better than what they could find in the check-out bargain basket in Wicks - ie barely usable for a kitchen squawk box or an intercom.

      Maybe I'm just being too cynical :)
       
    12. Hogan71088

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      Well the plan is to buy and fit them myself, I was looking at the Polk RC80i which looks to come with an adjustable tweeter.
       
    13. Thatsnotmynaim

      Thatsnotmynaim
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      If you haven’t done them yet, then I’d honestly rethink. Ceiling speakers are great for ATMOS and supermarkets, but for main av speakers are not perfect at all. You can get tilting ones like Kef I’ve seen but again not as good as ear level speakers. If you don’t want to see them how about a soundbar and if you want multiroom and a good easy use interface Sonos most people get on with well.
       
    14. Thatsnotmynaim

      Thatsnotmynaim
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      Also why hide the speakers in the ceiling and then get a big ugly AVR amp? :) There are tidy non ceiling speakers, such as Kef T101/T301 which can be stand or wall mounted, they’re literally less than 1” deep.
       
    15. Hogan71088

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      Unfortunately the house has been plastered and cables have been pulled into positions. To be honest audio was a bit of an after-thought, also pretty sure I'd be told where to go if I said I wanted to mount speakers either side of the couch at head height.

      Good point on the size of the receiver but I was hoping to somehow build it in to a wall cabinet.

      If I said the in ceiling speakers are here to stay, would it be a good idea to add a soundbar/center speaker at around head height under the TV?
       
    16. droidlike

      droidlike
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    17. Thatsnotmynaim

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      I’d personally forget the cables for now, save them for ATMOS later / if ever. If you want neat and wife friendly sound then why not just go for a good quality soundbar. I see little point investing in an amp to drive ceiling speakers as your main speakers.
       
    18. Hogan71088

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    19. Hogan71088

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      Appreciate the advice.
       
    20. Thatsnotmynaim

      Thatsnotmynaim
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      Or soundbase. Honestly my mate put wires in his ceiling ready to do the same thing when he got his extension. I let him listen to my Kef ci200qr speakers in stereo as he wanted to know what a speaker of that level would sound like, he then listened to my Kef r100s also, he’s never bothered with in ceiling speakers. They’re ok for background music or a bathroom but not great listen to as main speakers as they point in the wrong direction.
       
    21. Hogan71088

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      Makes sense, maybe I will just cut and fill the holes left and just start off with a sound bar.
       
    22. Rambles

      Rambles
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      It is likely going to sound a bit odd to watch TV / films and have the dialogue coming from the ceiling, I bet the lip sync will be quite distracting.
       
    23. Hogan71088

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      Okay so I figure I need a Dolby atmos system, since I have the in ceiling speakers already cables, I think I could look at running speaking cables along the concrete floors and the have the wood floors laid over the cables.

      Now time to look for suitable speakers. Not sure if the demon sys2020 will be enough...
       
    24. Rambles

      Rambles
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      That would be the better use of the ceiling speakers. You would ideally want 5.1 speakers at floor level and then the ceiling speakers would become the .2 height speakers, making 5.1.2. You could expand beyond that if you want to.

      Ceiling speakers in the second room might be okay, is it the kitchen? Could be acceptable for listening to the tv / radio / mp3's whilst cooking and pottering around etc...

      I live in a new build with wood floors but had no say in the design, so I use these to run the cables around the edge of some of the rooms. Once the furniture is in place, they are not really noticeable.

      Cable Cover Volta Wire Tidy Oak G0 74mm L:2m
       
    25. Hogan71088

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      That's a good idea but we get the house with bare concrete floors so im assuming there's no issues laying the floor on top of the cables?

      Kitchen will most likely be fine with 2x ceiling speakers just for low key music.
       
    26. Thatsnotmynaim

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      I would have thought most in ceiling speakers would outclass the Denon sys2020 @ ~£149. If you just want a very simple and discrete 5.1 system then fine, but I’d imagine a set of ATMOS ceiling speakers would cost more than the whole 5.1 system, say ~£200 minimum, so would be out of balance. If going for the sys2020 forget the ceiling speakers, else up the 5.1 speaker budget to £600+. Just my 2 penith worth, don’t take offence and feel free to ignore me. :)
       
    27. ch1z

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      I have a 7.1.2 setup and to be honest the overhead speakers are fine but I use it with a projector. However I feel a 5.1 setup for a TV setup would be my first choice. I use a sound plate with a wireless sub for TV viewing which does the job nicely. Again there are some great deals on the not latest and greatest soundbars that do a great job of providing quality sound compared to those TV speakers.
      You would get far better sound and value for money than going down the Atmos route as most reasonably priced AVR's are using 7.1 or 5.1.2 setup. If absolutely determined to go the Atmos route there are speakers which have front and upfiring speakers which bounce the sound to give the effect of ceiling speakers.
      To be honest there are some fantastic people on this forum who have that upgrade bug (as do we all) who price things very very reasonably....
      You can put together a great 5.1 system for not a lot of money and a lot less hassle than trying to put speakers in the ceiling. For info I use the older Bowers and Wilkins M1s and Bowers and Wilkins overheads in the ceiling with a Marantz SR 6010 which just effortless with films and music. Good luck...
       
    28. Hogan71088

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      I'm looking at the Yamaha rxv683 and the monitor mass 5.1 system. Will also add the in ceiling speakers since cabling is in place already. Probablky going to wait on the black Friday sales to see if there's a good deal. At the moment it will coist £1099
       
    29. Thatsnotmynaim

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      Peter Tyson have a package deal on those at £1049.

      They also have the same speakers packaged with a Denon 2300 for £799 and that has 7 channels of amps, which I would have thought was enough to do either 5.1.2 with ATMOS or 5.1 in room 1 and 2ch in room 2.

      Denon AVRX2300W AV Receiver & Monitor Audio MASS AV Speakers
       
    30. Thatsnotmynaim

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