Advice on a (possible) suspect bank transfer

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Mr_Wistles, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    Afternoon all, another question for the knowledge bowl.

    I have just sold a very high value item on ebay and the bloke has just paid me (almost instantly, which believe it or not I don't like as it is a lot of money) via a chaps payment into my bank account.

    My question is that if the account which it was sent from turns out to be dodgy? and the payment was sent without the cardholders knowledge, where do I stand?

    I believe that it would be the fault of the sending bank for allowing the fraud to occur in the first place.

    What else concerns me is the mail that he sent me: -

    "Hi Russ,

    As per our telephone conversation my full name is xxxx

    I have transferred the funds by CHAPS you will receive it today.

    The account that i have cannot transfer money out of halifax, so i transferred it to my partner's account and he has made the CHAPS payment his current account for me but he thought it was for a car. So when the payment comes through it will say its for a car from Mr xxxx.

    Speak to you this evening."

    The product he has bought is my business, with no stock and no premises, literally a website, contact details etc... If he was a scammer why would he not just buy electronics with dodgy cash? Why buy a business which you have to invest loads of cash into?

    I am probably thinking WAY to much into this. I just don't like how the cash came from someone else and he thinks that it is for a car but I cannot see a way or a reason why somebody would want/could con someone like this because the product has no REAL value without another large investment.

    Advice please.
     
  2. KingJeff 4th

    KingJeff 4th
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    Sound like your the one ripping her off mate ;)
     
  3. Jay

    Jay
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    It is odd that payment will be listed as a car as opposed to what payment is really for.
    Would your partner not know what the money going out was for??? That email alone would set alarm bells ringing in my head.

    What he/she may have done is conned someone into buying a car and gave your payment details as the details to pay for the car.
     
  4. h4rri

    h4rri
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    Without knowing the sums involved it's hard to ascertain the potential risk. I personally would make an appointment with your bank manager ASAP and discuss it with them.
     
  5. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    That is what I first thought, but it does not work. He would give the car to some bloke, who gives the cash to me and he gets a folder of papers and some contact details, if were in cahoots, then yes it would work, but basically if that is the con, he is swapping a car for my business.

    The bloke has 99 feedback on ebay, the address he is confirming is different from the one on ebay but it is in the same area. (Radcliffe in Manchester, is that dodgy?)
     
  6. Jay

    Jay
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    Another thing that sets alarms bells ringing is, You spoke to HIM, and his partner is a MR.??

    Just doesn't sound right....

    With regards to a vehicle scam, criminals use the internet to sell vehicles that are stolen or do not exist, often using pictures and details of genuine vehicles.
     
  7. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    but what will my bank manager say? "Yes Mr Piper I can confirm you were paid and everything appears fine" The only way I can see is if I speak to the person who sent the cash, but how do I know if I am speaking to the person who actually made the transfer?
     
  8. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    He is buying a business thought, it could very well be his business partner.
     
  9. Jay

    Jay
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    Could be. But the way the email reads to me is as though he is referring to personal accounts.
     
  10. Jay

    Jay
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    Either way CHAPS payments are irrevocable.
     
  11. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    So the cash is mine now, I know they can't take it back without the police getting involved and even then it is the sending banks fault.

    I don't see how it can be a con though, it could be totally genuine. The only thing I can think about is that he had his friend send the cash and he is embarrassed that he has spent so much money on a business that sells squeaky dog toys.

    It is not like he has sent paid via Paypal and I am sending my Nokia phone to his Nigerian cousin. He will have to put in considerable work and funds to get the business running again.

    I have emailed him saying that I am concerned that the person who paid me thinks it is for something else. I don't even know why he bothered telling me that?
     
  12. Jay

    Jay
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    He had to tell you, because what would you have thought if you had seen a payment to you was made for a car. Your first reaction would have been :confused:
     
  13. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    The chaps does not say anything on it, just a reference number, why did he feel he needed to give me that information?
     
  14. Jay

    Jay
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    Could be that he wasn't aware that it wouldn't show what item payment was made for (in this case showing as a car), and he wanted to cover all bases so you wouldn't think something dodgy was going on. Ironically because of the email he sent you, he has caused you to question things.
     
  15. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    Can you put together a scenario where somebody could make money out of telling someone they are buying a car when in fact you are buying a pet business that is not currently trading and has no physical assets?

    I can't
     
  16. Jay

    Jay
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    The money they would be making is the money they make from selling a dodgy car...
    But as you say what is questionable is why they would use that money on buying your business.
     
  17. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    ....but they never get the money, it goes straight to me.

    I could understand if I was selling electronics or jewellery etc... but a non trading business??

    Very strange. Why are things never straight forward?
     
  18. Jay

    Jay
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    This is the scenario, someone spots something they want to buy (Mr A), they then con someone else into buying something from them (Mr B), and give them the payment details of the person they are buying the item from(Mr C),

    Also people out there will always find a use for something, you obviously realised someone would buy your business from you, otherwise you wouldn't have put it for sale.

    Someone has obviously found a reason to warrant buying the business from you.
     
  19. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    I see where you are coming from, again it is the choice of purchase.

    If it is a con, down the line Mr B comes to me and says "where is my car?" I say no I sold my business to Mr A.

    The business by this time will be trading and we can collar him. It is not like something he can buy and disappear with.
     
  20. DJT75

    DJT75
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    Not really, other than him starting up the business again, collecting thousands of pounds for plastic dogburgers & never delivering them. People start asking questions as to where their goods are & he then claims the business is actually still yours, he merely bought a car from you.

    How are you actually handing over the business - surely they must be something legally signed in this transaction?
     
  21. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    phone your bank and explain you have sold your business and have a chaps number but as it was done remotely and there is 'a bit of a story' you just want to check things out. they may want to you to go into your/a branch with ID or they may do it over the phone.
     
  22. Jay

    Jay
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    A possible use for your business is to trade online, take customer orders, collect payment and never send the goods

    They then do a runner, and there is nothing connecting them to the business, as they never made payment in their name, they used false details whilst running the business etc.
     
  23. DJT75

    DJT75
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    Like what I said but even better cos he hasn't even bought a car from you either - genius!

    Only the business partner he secretly detests has, so he's stitching him up too + all his new customers.

    This guy's good - there might even be a movie about this yet ;)

    ps. It's probably absolutely fine, but legally signing the business over to him is surely a must here.
     
  24. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    I am re-registering everything into their name though. They will have to set up their own payment processing etc.. so then it will be on them or their bank if they con people.
     
  25. Jay

    Jay
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    People who indulge in fraudulent activity of this kind will have fake identities, with the correct documents they can then open bank accounts etc.

    Nowadays if you have the correct fraudulent documents it can open up a whole world of opportunites....
     
  26. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    If they do any of this it is not on my head is it?

    The business will be registered in one of their fake names, not mine, therefore I won't be liable?

    I just can't believe someone would go to such lengths to buy a pet business when they could just setup a brand new one with their dodgy documents.
     
  27. Jay

    Jay
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    You won't be liable for anything as far as I can see.

    Nowadays there really isn't anything that certain people won't do...
     
  28. Mr_Wistles

    Mr_Wistles
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    On another note, I am not transferring the Ltd company into their name, I am folding it with immediate effect.

    So all they will have registered in their name is: -

    The website
    My EKM shop
    Internet hosting

    That is it.
     
  29. Jay

    Jay
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    Just one more thing, I think you should raise your concerns with your buyer, if he is legitimate he won't mind answering your queries.
     
  30. DJT75

    DJT75
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    I'd say you have nothing to worry about then...take the cash & enjoy. Who actually physically pays for your ebay item isn't of concern
     

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