1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Advice needed - Samsung DLP's

Discussion in 'TVs' started by SgtHartman, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. SgtHartman

    SgtHartman
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    168
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    Hi Everyone - I have been thinking of getting a DLP set for some time now and am particularly taken with the Samsung SP50L7HX - had a viewing in John Lewis and was very impressed. However, I did notice that if I "flicked" my eyes from side to side I could see the dreaded rainbows but it seemed OK if I didnt move them. Is this likely to cause fatigue if I watch the TV for extensive periods?

    I also noticed this set on the American Costco website:
    http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11067561&whse=BC&topnav=&cat=4848&hierPath=79*4848*
    I dont know the model number etc but it looks pretty cool and well priced. Anyone know if it is to be sold in the UK or is already available? If so where from?

    Cheers for your help guys!!
     
  2. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,023
    It's always a risk. The thing is, you naturally want to follow any movement in the image with your eyes, and in such cases, you amy find yourself seeing rainbows. At their worst, they can also cause nausea and/or fatigue. Buy with care. Be sure you can get along with the (otherwise excellent) picture. It's an expensive mistake if you can't.
     
  3. Starfleet

    Starfleet
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +1
    I have a sp 46 dlp. I do see rainbows but they seem to be getting less and less, probably my brain getting used to them. at the start my head did hurt only a little bit but I think this was due to me getting used to the size something like sitting right at the front in the cinema. The brain tries to assimilate all the info in one go. I have been watching my TV now for about 3 weeks the picture is great and still see some rainbows every now and then. In the first 2 weeks seriously thought about sending tv back but now very happy with it. The choice is yours
     
  4. FGEvans

    FGEvans
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have the Samsung 50 inch and again i did notice slight rainbows for the first 2 weeks. However 3 months in i no longer see them at all.
    weird but true.
     
  5. tiburs

    tiburs
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The only time I could see a rainbow effect was during the THX test when you have a thin white circle above a black background. Here if i move the head I can see that the circle separates itself in the 3 basic colours due to the chromatic wheel. But it was NOT annoying at all and I really had to force myself to see them. In any other circumstances during normal usage, I never repeat never saw any.
     
  6. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
    Ditto to the above. The THX circle test was the only time - I've seen rainbows.

    Some people are more or less susceptible to them than others, and some lucky individuals never see them. However, one thing seems clear from the posts, and that is that the effect seems to diminish after a few weeks. I expect this is more to the set "burning in" to its optimum performance, rather than the viewer getting used to / not noticing the effect.

    I say this because I have a friend that is susceptible and noticed the effect in the first week I had my set. Having said that he claimed it was a negligible effect.

    Since then he's visited three or four times over the past 4-5 weeks and claims he no longer sees the rainbow effect. So it's not a case of him getting used to the effett due to constant viewing, but seemingly the effect diminishing as the TV settles in with usage.
     
  7. Starfleet

    Starfleet
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +1
    The rainbows must be dependant on each individual and the person getting used to them rather than the tv burning in, the reason I say this is the SP 46 in Currys has been on over 10 weeks say 8 hrs a day although currys are open longer . therefore approx 560 hrs. I still saw rainbows when i went in last week to buy a CD player. Still love my sp 46 PQ superb
     
  8. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,023
    Absolutely. Which is why you have to read other's "doesn't bother me" style comments with some understanding. You are the only person who can determine if you will experience any discomfort etc.
     
  9. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
    Bear in mind that the showroom sets' pictures are probably still at factory settings (e.g. Contrast set at 100 on a scale of 1 to 100 :eek: ) . Reduction of the colour, brightness and contrast settings to "real world" levels will significantly reduce the rainbow effect, and perhaps -for some viewers- eliminate it completely.

    But I will certainly second what LV says - you must audition these sets for yourself before buying. But do what I did - take along a THX disc (Star Wars, Die Hard, etc.) and use the optomizer on the disc to set (which invariably means lower) the picture levels.
     
  10. Starfleet

    Starfleet
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Cybergeek

    I have tried various settings even having the contrast down below 40 and everything else around 50 In the first week still saw rainbows especially on DVD's like matrix and gladiator now my settings are contrast/sharpness 60 and everything else 50 so getting used to them. As were are all different you may get used to them or you may not.
    As i said before choice is yours as I agree wholeheartedly with LV. I chose the SP46 from following everything said on these forums with people for and against DLP and rainbow threads. So I took a chance hoping that i will get used to them eventually will let you know in 6 months. Funnily enough i couldn't see any rainbows with the Sagem 45" you know the one with the HD feed. seriously considered it but at that time out of my price
     
  11. DLPMaybe

    DLPMaybe
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    933
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +52
    I never saw a rainbow in the shops. Once home I see them but very infrequently. It does not bother me. But if you are seeing them straight away it may imply that you are going to see a whole lot of them. I would think long and hard before purchasing the set. The Samsung does seem to get more people seeing the rainbow. Maybe you should consider a different DLP or different technology altogether.
     
  12. PeWe

    PeWe
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Ratings:
    +2
    Maybe this one ?
    SONY KDF-E50A12 in U.K.

    Model in Sweden ,Germany: Sony KDF-E50A11E. Hopefully the same.
    50" 3LCD television
    Integrated Digital Tuner
    HD Ready
    HDMI
    1280 x 720 resolution

    Slim design, slimmer than Samsung SP-50L6HX :smashin:
    (118 x 82,7 x 40 cm)

    http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProd...Type=Overview&category=TVP+Rear+Projection+TV

    Also check for KDF-E50A10 in US links for happy owners.

    I think I'll change my mind from Samsung SP-50L6HX to this one... :rolleyes:
     

    Attached Files:

  13. SgtHartman

    SgtHartman
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    168
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    Cheers for all your help here guys, definately gonna have to think long and hard about the rainbow issues. I may audition other sets to see if there is any difference (although I kinda doubt it!) and see if I can possibly view for a longer period to see if I get any fatigue!
     
  14. lardy

    lardy
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry
    Ratings:
    +1
  15. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
    The PQ of quality LCD rear-pro sets is nowhere near that of DLP sets.

    Not even in the same league. :thumbsdow
     
  16. lardy

    lardy
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Coventry
    Ratings:
    +1
    OK, perhaps too good to be true....are they LCOS sets? or do they have the problems with the LCD "lines"? or are they just bad?
    Back to shortlisting other big screens then :suicide:
     
  17. Scoob

    Scoob
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    119
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +1
    Just to go back to the rainbow issue. I saw them an awful lot when I first got the set, considered sending it back but managed to wangle a months test from the shop. I'm extremely glad I did as the rainbow effect has diminished quite considerably. I still see them when normal watching, and can make them appear with no problem, but it seems I am extremely sensitive to them (I had to switch off several films in the first couple of weeks). However, they don't really bother me much anymore, it's more of a "oh look, a rainbow" now rather than "aaaarrrrggggghhhhhh, a rainbow!!!!" which it was before.
    Whether it's the set bedding in, my eyes getting worse, my brain slowing down, me just not caring or a combination of all of them, either way it's a lot better now that it was and apart from them, the picture is just stunning and I'm glad I didn't send it back and get an inferior replacement.
     
  18. PeWe

    PeWe
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Ratings:
    +2
    It's hard to determine DLP or LCD when both have their backsides.

    The LCD has no colorwheel that runs in 10000 rpm. - Will it work for 10 years? -What happens with the pq if variations in speed occure?
    I have seen more negative reports about DLP rainbows than LCD screendoors.

    I've seen posts there solution for rainbows is to decrease the contrast.
    -Have I missed anything? The good thing with DLP is the contrast. -Is the contrast still an advantage over LCD after the contrast adjustment so the rainbows disappear?
    I was verys sure about a DLP until the Sony showed up with it's slim design. (The previous Sony model is very big (wide) with it's sidemounted speakers.)

    I have not seen LCD and DLP side by side. -Anyone here that has compared the new Sony LCD with a DLP like Samsung and similar DLP's?
     
  19. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
    Probably the best way to describe it is that with LCD (and CRT) rear projection sets it is obvious straight away that you are watching a rear-pro image. They have all the obvious artefacts that went with rear-pro technology before DLP came along.

    With a good quality DLP, you don't get that. First time I saw a DLP in-store I thought it was a top quality plasma or LCD until I walked round the side and saw the depth of the screen.

    Don't let the rainbows issue put you off demoing a DLP. People are in danger of overstating the case. The reaction of most people I know if / when they noticed this effect was "Is that it?"

    But -as is advised- check it out for yourself.
     
  20. PeWe

    PeWe
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Ratings:
    +2
    I have seen some DLP's as demos for 10-15 minutes. I have not seen any rainbows at all. The picture quality was more calm and steady than Plasma but not as bright.
    The sets I have seen: Thomson 50", Sagem 45" and LG 44". And the older version of Sony LCD backproj with very good PQ.

    My worries pops up when reading all complains about DLP's and if the wheel will work ok for many years. It seems that I have to wait until I find a dealer that has both sets for demo so I can compare. The good thing with forums like this is the possibility to gather plenty of experiences from all users. I hope that a Sony LCD backproj.-owner will read this and write about his experiences so I can decide without a long trip to a dealer.
     
  21. Starfleet

    Starfleet
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Sounds like your not affected by the rainbows but demo a Samsung 46" this set seems to affect more people then you will know. If your not affected by the rainbow effect you will be very impressed by the Samsung DLP whether you go 46, 50 or even bigger. Good luck and hope you join the DLP club
     
  22. paul.graham

    paul.graham
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    21
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi PeWe,

    I'm in the same position as you, regarding LCD-RP vs. DLP.

    I have checked out a few DLPs and I find that watching them makes me feel nauseous, particularly bad with the SP46H6LX :(

    I'm not sure I could live with that and try to get used to it when it's such a large amount of money to waste if it doesn't work out.

    So I've been waiting for the KDF-E50A12 to come out too, cos it looks like it might be a decent TV. There's not much info available for them at the moment and no-one in the LCD forum wants to know about them.

    The Sonycentres are starting to get them in now and I'm hoping to go and demo one this Saturday. The Sony stores are selling them for £1400 with 3 years warranty. I'm just hoping it's a winner...

    Cheers,

    Paul
     
  23. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,023
    Depending on exactly how you look at it, there's actually a LOT more similarity in the way they work, between LCD and DLP, than between LCD and CRT. To equate the artefacts of LCD RP with CRT RP is somewhat of an over-simplification, IMO. I don't think we should pre-judge Sony's imminent offering, until we've seen it. At least it won't cause rainbows or nausea or fatigue in anyone.
     
  24. PeWe

    PeWe
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    32
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Ratings:
    +2
    Interesting links with more RPTV experiences.. from the west...
    Sony and Samsung US models. (There are plenty of more of course)

    -Sony KDF-E50A10 in USA, probably the same as KDF-E50A12 in UK, KDF-E50A11 in Germany, Sweden..
    -Samsung similar to SP-50L6HX

    Sony LCD RPTV reviews

    Samsung 46" reviews

    Samsung 50" reviews

    It seems that both the Sonys and the Sammys will be a good choice. It's up to everybody to see and feel. The Sonys need to be finetuned to achieve the PQ. HD signal into the sets is always good, problems might occure with the regular TV-signals of today...
     
  25. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
    I'm not disputing any similarity in the way DLP and LCD rear pros work, Nigel.

    The only factor I was attempting to equate as common to all CRT and LCD rear-pros, was the fact that with both you're under no illusion that you're watching rear-pro technology. Compared to DLP there is a lack of sharpness to the picture, much lower resolution, contrast, colour saturation and uneven light distribution across the screen. Quite simply, overall both CRT and LCD give a noticeably poorer picture.

    You're in no doubt these sets are rear projection devices. On the other hand, the reaction of my non-AV savvy friends (that have never seen or heard of DLP) when they see my Samsung in action, is one of total disbelief when I tell them they're watching a rear-projector television. Yes it is that much better than CRT or LCD rear-pros. In a totally different league.

    And don't rule out viewer stress or fatigue from DLP or CRT rear-pros. One of the most common causes of eyestrain, headaches or whatever when TV viewing, can come from watching a poor quality picture, whether it is dull, blurred or suffering from convergence issues. The two LCD rear-pros I have had prolonged exposure to in friend's homes, just gave me sore eyes after an hour or so's viewing, a complaint that even the owners voiced.

    Don't forget - when the only choice was between CRT or LCD, rear-pro TV had been written off as a large screen option in the wake of plasma screens due to the unmistakeably inferior PQ. Rear-pro was pretty much in its death throes until DLP came along, and now all of a sudden it is a major contender once more - and with very good reason.

    I've been after a rear-pro for many years, but every few months or so when I went to check out new models, I found nothing to change my mind. Every LCD and CRT rear pro had a vastly inferior picture to my standard CRT TV, so I was never remotely tempted. Like you say we shouldn't judge the new Sony till we've seen it, but when I was auditioning DLPs I came across the current Sony LCD rear-pro in two stores, and quite frankly the picture was p*** poor, even with all the tweaking in the world. So unless there has been some quantumn leap in the technology, I'm not holding my breath.

    I'm not attempting to deny that there are some that will not be able to tolerate the rainbow effect if they are susceptible to it, but I think we are in real danger of overstating the degree of this effect, particularly for those that have never seen a DLP working.

    To put it in some sort of perspective, consider the following. Since August 14th when I took delivery of my Samsung I have had a parade of friends, acquaintances and friends-of-friends through my door to visit the new baby.

    Between groups of us having movie marathons every weekend since, to people just popping in for a quick look and ending up in front of it for an hour or more watching sundry movie clips, I'd say I've had easily 60-70 people view the set. Only one was savvy to the technology, had read about the effect, and immediately looked for rainbows. He claimed that, yes, he noticed them very occasionally, but the effect was so miniscule as to be virtually un-noticeable.

    Out of all the others roughly two thirds didn't see the effect at all, and the others only noticed it when I told them what they should be looking for. Even then not one of them considered the effect to be of any consequence or a detriment to their enjoyment.

    There was one opinion, however, that was 100% unanimous and that was, "I want one!" So far three have taken the plunge including one of the LCD rear-pro owners and one plasma owner.

    The rule is simple - check it out for yourself. But do check it out. Don't just think "Oh, I've read about this rainbow effect on DLP's therefore I'm crossing them off the list, sight unseen." There are plenty of delighted owners that will tell you otherwise.

    :rolleyes:
    PeWe - this is the last thing you want to do. You must not rely on someone else's opinion, and you must make the trip to the dealer and see for yourself. Don't make this fundamental but fatal error. You're the one that has to live with your purchase, not someone else.

    As to the life of the wheel, well, you can apply that worry to any component (wheel, fan, on-off switch, tube, panel, resistors) of any type of TV, be it plasma, CRT, front projection or LCD panel. You'll notice that for as long as there have been TVs there have been TV repair shops. Things wear out and break down and you get them repaired. Did this ever stop you or anyone you know buying a TV set?
    Contrast at the factory setting of 100% gave a slightly hyped picture. Using a THX optomizer my contrast came down to 60-65%. Picture is stunning. Still streets ahead of any LCD or CRT rear-pro I've seen. I'll go further - the picture is the best I've seen, period. Better PQ in every way at 46" screen size than either my Sony or Panasonic CRTs were at 32" screen size.

    You can read forums like this till the cows come home, but at the end of the day you have to make up your mind. It's very simple. Forget about what you've read and just trust your eyes. If you like what you see then buy it. If you don't like what you see, then don't buy it.

    For me - no issues whatsoever. Best TV I've ever owned. Happy as a lark.

    Only you can decide, so stop reading and hit the stores!
     
  26. Chumpy

    Chumpy
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    All good points - get out on the street and see for yourself - it may be painful to try and find someone who has em in stock and so on, but it's gotta be done :)
     
  27. Starfleet

    Starfleet
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    157
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +1
    After watching the tv for last 4 weeks finally last night the rainbows had reduced very noticeably to the fact that i purposeley moved my head back and forth to induce them,sad really. Agree with chumpy and the pauley. Go out and buy a set now. Seen other threads mentioning Pixmania, PRC Direct I bought my SP 46 from Robertsons online
     
  28. dunsters

    dunsters
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    303
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +7
    PeWe - as the_pauley says, everyone has an opinion - you could ask your next door neighbour for his opinion on brain sergury, but would you let him operate? - an opinion is just that and you have to form your own.:lesson: - OK, I will shut up now:D


    Cheers:hiya:
     

Share This Page

Loading...