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Advice needed regards common cabling options!!!

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by MAD ANDY, Jan 16, 2005.

  1. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    Hi all

    right, very confused now!

    Currently Have a 32" JVC with 3 scart sockets (EXT-1 to 3), an S-Video socket + Composite RCA (both EXT-4)

    DVD, Sky and Video all currently connected by Scart in EXT-1, 2 & 3

    I also have a projector of which I paid £55 for a special Composite lead with thick interference free cable and gold connectors at each end, think it was about 20-25m in size that I needed, running from the Composite out on the DVD player which also has an S-Video out option (instead of scart though I think, not instead of Composite)

    Always thought I had it good :) then I stumbled across a cabling guide page :(

    now I realise I'm running my projector with a cable that only supplies approx. 250 lines of info and is the worst option :(

    Then I find Scart is actually pretty crap too :(

    So at first, started to look for a 20-25m S-Video cable to run from the DVD to projector, but as the projector also has RGB input (although oddly enough the colours are actually Red, Blue and Yellow instead of Green, but above Yellow it has Y, above Blue it has Pr/Cr and above Red it has Pb/Cb or summat like that and hence assuming this is actually RGB), anyway, as the projector has RGB input, and reading about Scart composite and Scart RGB, although the DVD player doesnt have a direct RGB option, wondering whether running a cable with an RGB scart connector at one end for DVD and RGB at the other for PJ would be better than an S-Video cable?

    Also, I have found that EXT-1 on my TV is RGB compatible, and hence should I do the same thing here with a shorter cable?

    I have read that in order or quality downwards its:

    Component (RGB)
    S-Video
    Composite

    However where do:

    RGB Scart - RGB Scart
    RGB Scart - RGB Component
    S-Video to Scart

    fit in??? as this is the info I cant find! :)

    I am assuming RGB scart is not as good as RGB component?

    Your advice decides which cables I go for!!!!! :D

    thanks in advance!
     
  2. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    18 views and no answer :(

    surely someone must know :(
     
  3. mince bigalow

    mince bigalow
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    Hello mate, I'm by no means an expert at all this but here is how it goes:

    Component (the best connection) is not actually RGB, but it is the best connection to use if you can, it is labelled Y/Pb/Pr or YUV sometimes. RGB, which can either be run using a scart cable or three phono cables is almost as good but cannot carry high definition signals, but works in a similar way in that three cables are used to carry the signal, one for each colour. SVideo is still a good connection but loses some colour definition because it only uses two cables to carry the signal (the colours all share one cable). Composite is the devil, avoid at all costs.

    Now scart can carry composite, svideo and RGB. Wherever possible use the RGB option, even my technophobe friends notice a MASSIVE difference compoared to composite.

    Here is what I would do:

    1) Run a scart cable from DVD player into second scart socket on SKY box
    2) Scart cable from sky into RGB capable socket on TV
    3) Ensure both DVD player and SKY box are set to RGB not composite
    4) Plug video into other scart socket on TV
    5) Assuming your DVD player doesn't have a component output, run an SVideo cable from DVD player to PJ as I doubt your component sockets on the PJ will take the RGB. You may have to change the DVD player from RGB to Svideo each time you watch a film on the PJ.

    Hope that helps :)
     
  4. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    Hi mate

    cheers for the reply :D

    ok let me confirm

    eh? :confused: I thought component -was- RGB hence the reason it has Red, Green and Blue cables? and I thought RGB run over scart was not -true- RGB? either way I get what you mean anyway :D

    thought the colours were seperated into two cables? ie black and white down one and colour down the other? or did you not count b&w? :)

    :( I understand this now, although still amazed at how -good- my pj screen looks with composite!!! maybe it will look awesome with s-video or component, but certainly not bad at all with composite, however I will still change the cable :)

    yeah this is what I'm hoping! :)

    are -both- the scarts on the Sky box RGB then? not just one like the TV? if so, got ya :D

    nope it doesnt, only 3: scart, composite and s-video.

    scart and composite both work at the same time, however to get s-video to work I have to flick a scart > s-video switch which, although this could be a pain, I'm used to pulling the scart out and plugging the composite in when watching the pj anyway so no probs here :)

    any reason why you doubt this? :confused: as they are labelled Y-Pr/Pb-Cr/Cb or however it is, and this site confirms it has Component video input:

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLC-XW15.htm

    now this could get tedious as well as having to change at the back, hence the reason why I am now thinking as I have to get behind the back of the DVD player anyway, wouldnt it be better to have a RGB scart socket here also so all I have to do is swap a RGB scart for an RGB scart, but the first being an RGB scart to RGB scart (2m long) in the back of the Sky box, and the second being an RGB scart to component (20m long) which I can plug in the Y-Pb/Pr-Cb/Cr of my projector, if so that makes sense and means I am getting the best output I can from DVD to TV via Sky, and from DVD to PJ too :D

    Now then, where do I get a GOOD RGB scart to scart and scart to component lead? As I read a review about one RGB labelled scart which actually wasnt, and most people wouldnt know DOH!!!! and I'm assuming not ALL RGB scart cables are sound free? As i saw this one:

    http://www.digitalhomemag.com/revie...d=19102&subsectionid=1306&subsubsectionid=964

    and obviously by the sounds of it I need a video only RGB scart between the DVD and Sky, a video + sound RGB between Sky and TV, and a video only RGB scart to component (naturally sound free as vid only). Assuming the vid + sound RGB between Sky/TV wouldnt affect the quality of DVD played over this compared to if I ran the DVD direct to TV?

    Funny thing too, currently my DVD and Sky are plugged into EXT-2 and EXT-3 of the TV - none RGB compliant!!!! and EXT-1, the RGB capable socket is used for the video DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotfl:
     
  5. mince bigalow

    mince bigalow
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    Hi Andy, I just did a quick search and I'm pretty sure that the component connections on your PJ will not take RGB unless the manual specifically states it. The sockets may be red green and blue but they are on most component connections i think, and component is not the same as RGB, they use the same cables sometimes, but the signal type is different. RGB gives the colours a cable each so no seperate brightness is needed, component (Y/Pb/Pr) has brightness, blue and red and the green is worked out as the difference between the two colours and the brightness (at least I think this is how it works).

    RGB is the same whether it's run over scart or phono, although generally the cables for phono are better quality, but the signal is exactly the same.

    Yup, in svideo there is a brightness signal and a colour signal.

    The second scart on the sky box will pass through RGB, but you can also use it to output if you like, but it will only output composite.

    If I were you I would consider buying a new DVD player supporting progressive scan component, this would probably make your life a lot easier and can be had for as little as £40 now I think. You could even then have one DVD player for the TV and one for the PJ :)

    Just remember that component Y/Pb/Pr is not the same as RGB :)
     
  6. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    Hi mate, cheers again for the quick reply! :D

    yep think I got what you mean now, thought at first you were originally saying that my pj wouldnt accept component even though it has component connections on it, after a quick read on an informative site I now understand the difference between component and RGB and hence understand that you are saying that it wont accept RGB. Therefore, if I had component out on the DVD it would accept component > component (Y-Pb-Pr > Y-Pb-Pr) but not RGB > component (RGB > Y-Pb-Pr) and hence S-video appears to be the lead to use :)

    However, I must ask again just to understand, why can you get Scart > Component leads? :confused: Surely this -is- RGB > Y-Pb-Pr... no?

    here for example:
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32837&item=5744400728

    [​IMG]

    I have also seen this listed on ebay which I would be interested in, ever heard of Golden Note?

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5744399376

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    cheers again :thumbsup:
     
  7. mince bigalow

    mince bigalow
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    Strictly speaking RGB can be called a component signal becuase it splits the image into its component colours, R, G and B. So somtimes you'll hear RGB called component RGB, but this is still a different signal to component Y/Pb/Pr, just uses the same cable. The cable above can be used to adapt an RGB scart connection into phono cables carrying RGB for various uses, or some TVs receive component signals through a scart socket, so you can plug the cable into your component outs and into your tv.

    Remember that the cable just carries a signal no matter what connectors it has, it's the signal that is passed through it that really matters, as long as the cable is not terrible. For instance, for my projector (Sanyo Z2) I made an RGB scart to VGA cable so I could input RGB into it. Even though it uses a VGA plug no VGA signal is being used, it's merely carrying the RGB signal into the necessary port.

    Hope I'm making sense :)
     
  8. mince bigalow

    mince bigalow
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    Oh, and the cable you posted looks OK, but if you want to spend less I'm sure this will be fine...

    http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tvcables/SV205.html

    ...if you need more than 10m, otherwise there are loads of good 10m cables around for not much cash, look at the other cables on that site. :)
     
  9. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Err.... not quite. In Y/Pr/Pb you have the Y signal, which is the "brightness" signal (which includes the sync pulses), then you have the Pr and Pb signals which are colour difference signals. Since green equals Y - (Pr+Pb) there is no need for a green signal.
     
  10. mince bigalow

    mince bigalow
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    Hi Nick, I did know that but they way I worded it came out wrong :) I meant that RGB carries the seperate colours across but didn't want to confuse him with how component works, just to say that it is better.

     
  11. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    ah yes, never thought of it like that, was only thinking of it one way ie scart > components hence DVD scart > PJ components, where as I supposed the same cable could be used for DVD components to TV scart, but if I get this right, this is where the TV scart is -not- running RGB scart, but where its running component based scart? how would you tell the difference with the TV as I only hear of RGB scart based TVs for instance? :)

    yeah I was looking for a VGA cable option as I read this is better than RGB but couldnt find a RGB scart > VGA option :(

    yes, again cheers for taking the time to reply :thumbsup:

    defo need 20-25m but thought for the price that one I saw seemed to be quite a decent cable with the 24k inputs and shielding etc, you saying it prob wont be any better than a standard cable? Also is there a max distance that s-video should be run over?
     
  12. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    is this guy wrong then saying that the Y signal is black and white info?

    http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/VideoConnectors/VideoConnectors.asp

    "The Y component of this signal is the black and white information contained within the original RGB signal. The Pb and Pr signals are colour difference signals, which are mathematically derived from the original RGB signal. For our purposes, it is sufficient to understand that the Y signal contains full bandwidth black and white picture information, and the colour difference signals contain bandwidth reduced colour information."

    Found these leads too:

    http://www.beststuff.co.uk/specialist_rgb_leads.htm

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Would one of these be better? As Mince, I recall you saying you went in via VGA, and as VGA appears to be the best option to use, wondering if RGB scart > VGA would be better! :D

    ---
    edit

    ah, confused again :( I thought I had read VGA was better than component, but this site seems to suggest otherwise and marks it level with s-video :confused:

    http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/projectorcablesandconnections.htm
     
  13. MAD ANDY

    MAD ANDY
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    Got another option in mind, to replace my current projector with a better pj, and taking everything in to account it appears to the Panasonic AE700 is the one to replace it (other than this vertical banding issue!), I looked at the Sanyo Z2 too but I need a long throw distance and the Z2 was too large an image at my 4.11m requirement unfortunately :(

    Anyway, I noticed the AE700 has an RGB scart socket on the back of it! :D so I'm assuming the best option if I go for this is simply a 20m RGB scart cable! :D jobs a good'un!
     

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