**advice needed** hdmi reciever & speakers **

deeman72

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hi all,

sorry if this thread has been asked before? (i did do a search but drew a blank)

basically; i'm looking to 'upgrade' the tv/audio entertainment in my dining room.

so far i've hung a sony 40" lcd bravia on the wall; and have sky+ (multiroom) and a xbox 360s in there sitting on top of a sideboard cabinet.

due to lack of space i was looking to put 2 bookshelf speakers on the bottom shelf of the cabinet (space under there is 22cm high and 104cm wide)

is it okay(sound wise) to do this. i won't be able to play them very loud as its the adjoining wall to next door? but still want a good sound? i know idealy they would be out in the open.

amp wise; i was looking at the SONY STRDH500 ? i wanted an entry level hdmi av reciever as its only really the dining room.

could you advise me on a good budget pair of speakers and amp to do my job?

tia


dan
 
The only issue with the 500 is that it does not do audio over HDMI hence you would need to connect the Xbox or sky via something other than the HDMI to get sound. It would also mean that you would not get HD audio if you ever put a bluray player in there (may not be an issue).
As for the speakers, they will not sound their best within a cabinet. I had my centre in a cabinet for a while and the improvement in sound when I mounted on the wall was marked. It sounded a lot more open etc. once out of the cabinet. Despite their name bookshelf speakers do not like being put on shelves or in cabinets. Could you not mount them on the wall either side of the TV?
 
cheers;

would they sound muffled in the cabinet? as for wall mounts - the wife said no :(

i'm looking at the q acoustics 1020i?
 
My centre did sound muffled in the cabinet (although only really noticed it when I took it out and realised how much better it sounded). You also lose some bass as well as this will be transfered into the cabinet as well.
 
the sony str-dh510 is the same amp but the newer revised edition and is about £20-£30 more than the 500. It still won't decode HD audio as PSM1 says but it will carry audio via HDMI. Don't know if it makes any difference but it is also capable of using HDMI 1.4 (which means it's 3D ready). Again this might not matter but it is a bit more future-proof, as you may just put an old 3D tv in your dining room in a few years time.

As for your speakers in your cabinet I would try and go for some front ported bookshelf speakers. Rear ported speakers tend to be more boomy when placed closer to walls, like you said they will be going in a cabinet (meaning no room behind the speakers). I was also bearing in mind your neighbours (as the speakers are against the adjoining wall to them you don't want too much booming bass, the type that has a habit to travel through walls).

Your choice of speakers depends on your budget but I would bear in mind that the space size you have described is unfortunately just between the two general sizes of bookshelf speakers, meaning you probably need to aim for the smaller sized ones (the type you seem disappointed in when you see them in real life, as they're normally much smaller than you realise.)

Dimension wise these (Q Acoustics 1010i Cherry | Speakers Per Pair | Richer Sounds) are just the right height (21.5cm), are front ported and seem good for the money. Please bear in mind that I'm assuming they are ok speakers as I've heard their older brothers (the 1020i) and I was impressed with how they sounded for the money, but the 1020i's are just too big for your needs. Also these speakers are the same as the ones used in the Q acoustics cinema package from a few years ago that got good reviews at the time (1010i Cinema - Q Acoustics 1000i Series 1010i Cinema Package 5.1 Cinema Package. "The Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 system ...)

Anyway that's my two pence worth, hope it helps!
 
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the sony str-dh510 is the same amp but the newer revised edition and is about £20-£30 more than the 500. It still won't decode HD audio as PSM1 says but it will carry audio via HDMI. Don't know if it makes any difference but it is also capable of using HDMI 1.4 (which means it's 3D ready). Again this might not matter but it is a bit more future-proof, as you may just put an old 3D tv in your dining room in a few years time.

As for your speakers in your cabinet I would try and go for some front ported bookshelf speakers. Rear ported speakers tend to be more boomy when placed closer to walls, like you said they will be going in a cabinet (meaning no room behind the speakers). I was also bearing in mind your neighbours (as the speakers are against the adjoining wall to them you don't want too much booming bass, the type that has a habit to travel through walls).

Your choice of speakers depends on your budget but I would bear in mind that the space size you have described is unfortunately just between the two general sizes of bookshelf speakers, meaning you probably need to aim for the smaller sized ones (the type you seem disappointed in when you see them in real life, as they're normally much smaller than you realise.)

Dimension wise these (Q Acoustics 1010i Cherry | Speakers Per Pair | Richer Sounds) are just the right height (21.5cm), are front ported and seem good for the money. Please bear in mind that I'm assuming they are ok speakers as I've heard their older brothers (the 1020i) and I was impressed with how they sounded for the money, but the 1020i's are just too big for your needs. Also these speakers are the same as the ones used in the Q acoustics cinema package from a few years ago that got good reviews at the time (1010i Cinema - Q Acoustics 1000i Series 1010i Cinema Package 5.1 Cinema Package. "The Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 system ...)

Anyway that's my two pence worth, hope it helps!

Firstly, it has nothing to do with how the speakers are ported. The speakers run a high risk of reverberating if placed on a shelf within a cabinet. Any speaker needs space around it and a solid foundation. Wall mounting your speakers or placing bookshelf speakers on dedicated stands is much more preferable to simply placing them on a shelf or cabinet and I definitely do not advise placing speakers within any form of cabinet irrespective of porting. You'll also lose a lot f detail if the speakers aren't situated at roughly your ear height while seated in your listening position.

Secondly, the 1020 QA speakers are not predecessors of the 1010 speakers, they are larger speakers from the same range.

If you are interested in the QA 1010i speakers then it is worth noting that wall brackets can no longer be easily sourced for these speakers. The same situation exists for the official QA floor stands.
 
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Also when I replaced my TV I was able to move the TV up an inch or so using the same mount without moving the actual wallmount, to accomodate TV and a centre speaker immediately beneath (speaker on top of AV cabinet not in it).

Centre speaker under the TV & not buried below in the AV cabinet is very advantageous soundwise.
 
Firstly, it has nothing to do with how the speakers are ported. The speakers run a high risk of reverberating if placed on a shelf within a cabinet. Any speaker needs space around it and a solid foundation. Wall mounting your speakers or placing bookshelf speakers on dedicated stands is much more preferable to simply placing them on a shelf or cabinet and I definitely do not advise placing speakers within any form of cabinet irrespective of porting. You'll also lose a lot f detail if the speakers aren't situated at roughly your ear height while seated in your listening position.

Secondly, the 1020 QA speakers are not predecessors of the 1010 speakers, they are larger speakers from the same range.

If you are interested in the QA 1010i speakers then it is worth noting that wall brackets can no longer be easily sourced for these speakers. The same situation exists for the official QA floor stands.

Dante we meet again. Ha! You are just following me round picking on what I say. Dear oh dear.

So are you suggesting what I said about port position is incorrect?

Might I suggest you re-read the posts BY EVERYONE. He says wall mounts are not an option, so why chime in with that rubbish. 'The wife said NO' dante!

And when I say 'older' brothers I don't mean literally older I mean bigger and better.

Have you forgotten everything I said about PAYING ATTENTION to what's written and not flying into an anal rage. Must do better Dante see me again!

Also as it is all budget stuff he is going for then might I suggest the crazy notion that not everyone is as bothered as you are about everything being perfect.

Now run along and pick on someone else. :)
 
as for the QA 1020i speakers could i not position them on their sides?


also pete; i did look at the sony str-dh510; so are you saying that i wouldn't need optical cables for the sky and xbox (like my onkyo sr606 in the lounge?)

thanks again
 
as for the QA 1020i speakers could i not position them on their sides?

You could position them on their sides, but the same guidelines as already outlined would still apply.

The STRDH510 has HDMI audio abilities and can therefore carry audio to the amp along with video, but SKY cannot output 5.1 audio via HDMI so if you've a SKY box, you'd still need to use an optical connection from it for Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. Most other HDMI source devices output multichannel audio via HDMI so only an HDMI connection would be required from them for both aidio and video.
 
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You could put them on their side but it would impede quality further, keep that hush hush you can see how angry dante gets when things aren't optimal.
Yes I am saying that you wouldn't need optical cable, the 510 carries multi-channel audio via HDMI so you would just need the HDMI cable for video and audio.
How you finding your 606? I've just got one for £120 but am yet to play with it as I'm at a friends for a week.
 
i could accomodate 'small' bookshelf speakers on top of the cabinet? i have a height of around 8"

are there any good budget jobbies available to maybe go for instead? or is that too small?

thanks again :)

ps; i love the onkyo sound it reproduces! well happy with it ; £120! blimey; i paid £400 (albeit a few years back!)
 
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If you are only getting stereo speakers then you would only need to connect via the HDMI. However, if you ever wanted surround sound you would need the optical for sky, this is because it does not send DD 5.1 via the HDMI cable (only the optical). The Xbox would only need to be connected via the HDMI.
Speakers can be put on their sides but again sound best when upright. There is a reason why the tweeter is placed directly above the woofer (to do with how our ears differentiate sound etc.).

Edit: Need to type quicker since other post not there before I started typing!!!! Should stop watching gadget show and surfing at same time!!!!
 
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Well I'm a bit confused, is putting them on top of the cabinet to try and get them to ear level? Is it a separate space to the one you were talking about earlier? Just cos 8" is just over 20cm so this space would be nearly 2cm smaller than before? The 1020i's are worth the money I think but I'm sure they're 25cm tall. You might also want to consider depth as they are deeper than you might expect and I'd imagine you wouldn't want them protruding out, the 1020is depth is 26.5cm so relatively deep.

Sorry that you have been dragged into Dante's apparent war with me, he has a habit of going around nit picking on people for some reason, needs to learn the difference between knowing and know-it-all.
If you wanna know what I'm on about read the first page of this thread, http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1310700-what-point-ipod-docks.html
 
Ok Can we keep the squabbling out of the thread and stick to advice for the OP please. Everybody has a right to disagree with anyone else but with reasoned arguments/debate and not childish or petty comments.

Thank You.
 
If you are only getting stereo speakers then you would only need to connect via the HDMI. However, if you ever wanted surround sound you would need the optical for sky, this is because it does not send DD 5.1 via the HDMI cable (only the optical). The Xbox would only need to be connected via the HDMI.
Speakers can be put on their sides but again sound best when upright. There is a reason why the tweeter is placed directly above the woofer (to do with how our ears differentiate sound etc.).

Edit: Need to type quicker since other post not there before I started typing!!!! Should stop watching gadget show and surfing at same time!!!!

Yeah this is true, I was working on the assumption that you were just going to use 2 speakers, good spot PSM1.
Also Liverpool vs. Man City is on! what are you doing watching the gadget show? I used to like that show but these days it all seems just daft with every episode being about unobtainable gadgets, such as like £50,000 driving simulators. Either that or theyre normally out doing some sort of stupid track down the presenter piece with GPS and walkie talkies. Not quite what I call a gadget show anymore :(
 
Ok Can we keep the squabbling out of the thread and stick to advice for the OP please. Everybody has a right to disagree with anyone else but with reasoned arguments/debate and not childish or petty comments.

Thank You.

Sorry I am trying but if you read the other thread you will know what I'm on about. Which you closed btw just after he had gone and people were actually discussing the thread topic, which made me :(
 
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soz yeh; start agin...

idealy for cosmetic reasons i wanted to put the speakers inside the cabinet bottom shelf (or take out shelf so they stand on the bottom inside) the cabinet is a heavy duty indian wood job with a criss cross front; from john lewis (if that makes any difference ..lol)

i (my wife) would consider putting the speakers on the top if they didn;t protrude too much - as you quite rightly state the QA's are too deep!?

are there any other one's that spring to mind?

i'll look for the mic but don't hold much hope?
 
Also Liverpool vs. Man City is on! what are you doing watching the gadget show? I used to like that show but these days it all seems just daft with every episode being about unobtainable gadgets, such as like £50,000 driving simulators. Either that or theyre normally out doing some sort of stupid track down the presenter piece with GPS and walkie talkies. Not quite what I call a gadget show anymore :(

I would agree about the gadget show but still OK as light viewing and better than Eastenders!!!!. Also being from Wales it is rugby all the way for me. Footy does nothing for me (overpaid girls who fall over and complain far too much).
To OP: There are smaller speakers around but these come at a compromise on sound in terms of frequency response etc. Have you considered getting a 2.1 system? Maybe something like the Onkyo HTX 22HDX or similar?
 
I'll have a look for you but I'd need to know the depth to work with? I wouldn't hold out too much hope though as those 1020i's seem like a bargain to me. I was just about to get them until I found the 1030i cheaper on eBay. Have you considered going second hand on eBay?

As for rigidity I'd imagine the more solid the wood the better (as supposed to an Argos MDF effort), for sound quality reasons etc.

If you find the mic but were concerned about keeping it I would always use it and post it back, I'm not going to be moving house or furniture for a while so I do think it might not be worth me buying one to use once.


But if all else fails put your foot down and tell the wife it's tough, easier said than done I know haha.

As for Eastenders, well think we better appease the moderator gods and talk only about thread subject.
 
soz yeh; start agin...

idealy for cosmetic reasons i wanted to put the speakers inside the cabinet bottom shelf (or take out shelf so they stand on the bottom inside) the cabinet is a heavy duty indian wood job with a criss cross front; from john lewis (if that makes any difference ..lol)

i (my wife) would consider putting the speakers on the top if they didn;t protrude too much - as you quite rightly state the QA's are too deep!?

are there any other one's that spring to mind?

i'll look for the mic but don't hold much hope?

Is there no possibility of mounting the speakers on the wall as already suggested?

If space really is restricted then maybe the Q Acoustics Q-AV would be worth considering, but this is a 5.1 speaker solution and quite expensive in comparison the just a pair of bookshelf speakers. It uses a speaker bar for the front three speakers and this bar is mounted below the TV screen.

If possible, wall mounting would be the best solution. The QA 2010 speakers aren't that expensive and you can readily get the wall mounting brackets for the 2000 range.
 
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thanks again for your advice; here's what i'm up against!

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