Advice needed for difficult room

escaladiez

Novice Member
Hi, my first post here, and hoping someone can help.
I have a 9m x 5m room, tiled floor, wooden ceiling, stone walls, speaker placement is limited to one position on either side of a large French window, and close to the wall. There are plenty of soft furnishings in the room.
The current equipment is a Cyrus 3 with PSX & Dynaudio audience 30's. I'm using a Denon streaming device to feed the system with airplay.
One of the Dynaudios got knocked off its stand and the tweeter is busted, so I need a replacement. The equipment is over 20 years old. I listen to mostly acoustic guitar, Jazz & R&B. I was never fully satisfied with the Dynaudios, the treble was harsh & there was limited bass. The amp seems OK.
I was going to replace the Dynaudios with a pair of bookshelf speakers but am wondering if I could do better.

Specifically should I upgrade the amplifier? I'm wondering if 20 years on, there is a better option, so in summary I'm looking for a recommendation for an airplay capable amplifier (but I can feed an amp with the Denon I already have) and compatible speakers. For example would the Denon DRA800H offer an improvement over the Cyrus?

Auditioning the equipment is not an option since I live in the middle of nowhere in France. As to budget, I'm retired and not exactly flush, but I'll spend for a good result.

Any help much appreciated
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
The Cyrus is know as having bright tone so this may be part of the problem. Plus tiled floor and bare walls will also reflect higher frequencies making them stand out a bit. If you Denon airplay device works then I would keep using it as this will open up a few more amps. May be worth looking at amps like Marantz, Yamaha and Arcam which have a slightly warmer surround and Kef or Wharfedale speakers.
 

gava

Active Member
One possibility is to go for some speakers that are very neutral and designed with room effects in mind.

Harman and their offspring brands Revel and JBL tend to excel in this field.

Some of the Revels are available at well below RRP at the moment: e.g.

speakers-pair/


They are very neutral and well designed, if you are in the market for listening to your music and not the hifi then they are a good choice. The lower range JBLs don't tend to make it all the way to Europe though.

Another very good choice at a similar price is the universally admired KEF R3.


No-one thinks the above speakers are perfect or amazing, but pretty much everyone thinks they are very good with no real weaknesses, both are well engineered 3-way designs good for pretty much everything and especially getting out of the way and letting you enjoy the music.

There are quite a few other floorstanding speakers around the 1000-1200 mark and most of them get pretty decent reviews - unlikely to make a horrible mistake I'd say with the Elac Debut Refrence, Focal Chora, Wharfedale Evo 4.4, etc. However if you can't audition them I'd be inclined to play safe with the KEF or Revel.

I do suspect you will want to refresh the amplifier too after 20 years. A new clean class D will be just fine and there are really quite a few good amps for reasonable money nowadays.

The Denon DRA800H is a solid bet, going up a bit so is the Marantz PM7000N, Audiolab 8300A, Cambridge Audio CXA81, and as you already have a streamer the Cambridge Audio AZUR 851A is an incredible bargain at the moment.

All of those will comfortably drive the R3 or F35s.

Best value for me would be the F35 + Denon combo - solid, well designed, well engineered but produced in sufficient numbers that you benefit from the economies of scale.

Alternatives if you don't care too much about looks are some good Active Studio Monitors - which have the advantage that you can feed them from your current streamer and can easily get built-in DSP and excellent amplification. You will get as good or better sound for a lot less money, but they don't look like furniture.

Browse thoman.de for ideas - but for example:


These are insane value - come with full DSP via app, etc. which could be quite important for your room. (Note that you need a pair - they are sold as singles.)

 
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escaladiez

Novice Member
One possibility is to go for some speakers that are very neutral and designed with room effects in mind.

Harman and their offspring brands Revel and JBL tend to excel in this field.

Some of the Revels are available at well below RRP at the moment: e.g.

speakers-pair/


They are very neutral and well designed, if you are in the market for listening to your music and not the hifi then they are a good choice. The lower range JBLs don't tend to make it all the way to Europe though.

Another very good choice at a similar price is the universally admired KEF R3.


No-one thinks the above speakers are perfect or amazing, but pretty much everyone thinks they are very good with no real weaknesses, both are well engineered 3-way designs good for pretty much everything and especially getting out of the way and letting you enjoy the music.

There are quite a few other floorstanding speakers around the 1000-1200 mark and most of them get pretty decent reviews - unlikely to make a horrible mistake I'd say with the Elac Debut Refrence, Focal Chora, Wharfedale Evo 4.4, etc. However if you can't audition them I'd be inclined to play safe with the KEF or Revel.

I do suspect you will want to refresh the amplifier too after 20 years. A new clean class D will be just fine and there are really quite a few good amps for reasonable money nowadays.

The Denon DRA800H is a solid bet, going up a bit so is the Marantz PM7000N, Audiolab 8300A, Cambridge Audio CXA81, and as you already have a streamer the Cambridge Audio AZUR 851A is an incredible bargain at the moment.

All of those will comfortably drive the R3 or F35s.

Best value for me would be the F35 + Denon combo - solid, well designed, well engineered but produced in sufficient numbers that you benefit from the economies of scale.

Alternatives if you don't care too much about looks are some good Active Studio Monitors - which have the advantage that you can feed them from your current streamer and can easily get built-in DSP and excellent amplification. You will get as good or better sound for a lot less money, but they don't look like furniture.

Browse thoman.de for ideas - but for example:


These are insane value - come with full DSP via app, etc. which could be quite important for your room. (Note that you need a pair - they are sold as singles.)

Thank you very much for this full & complete response, its really helpful.
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
You've given no indication of budget so this may be off the scale, but I'd look at an amp with room correction built in. If you're sticking with bookshelf speakers then maybe add a sub as well.
 

escaladiez

Novice Member
You've given no indication of budget so this may be off the scale, but I'd look at an amp with room correction built in. If you're sticking with bookshelf speakers then maybe add a sub as well.
Thank you. I had thought of bookshelf speakers with a sub. This arrangement would fit the logistics of the room well. If I did that then I'd need to change the amp - no sub output on the Cyrus. But as suggested above, it makes sense to change it after ~20 years service.

What I'd really like is a sound which is transparent - the Cyrus sounds "electronic", and I'd also like proper reproduction of acoustic bass, maybe a sub is the way to go?

My budget is 1500 Euro or thereabouts. I'm thinking now to change both the amp & speakers. I'm unsure if this budget will suffice ...

Many thanks for your response
 

gava

Active Member
What is your streamer model?

It's fairly unlikely you would need a sub with the KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4 - they are 3 way speakers, each with 300W power and 10" woofers. You are getting the equivalent of a 2x300W amplifier perfectly optimised for the speaker drivers built in. And DSP.


For 500EUR each including VAT. I would say the only reason not to try them is that you find them unattractive. Actually I think they look fine, but that's quite a personal thing.

You just need the right streamer - the one you have may be fine, but I would be very tempted to pair those with this:


You would be really hard-pressed to match that in traditional hifi with passive speakers.

I have no affiliation with thomann, but their returns policy is very good, and I have purchased from them before.


Here's my thinking...

What do you have to lose by trying?
You are in France so shipping, delivery, etc. will be very fast and zero-hassle like the UK used to be before Brexit.
You didn't know they existed yesterday. If you try and return and never use them again it's unlikely to make any difference to your life.
You will at least find out something about what you are looking for.
 
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escaladiez

Novice Member
What is your streamer model?

It's fairly unlikely you would need a sub with the KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4 - they are 3 way speakers, each with 300W power and 10" woofers. You are getting the equivalent of a 2x300W amplifier perfectly optimised for the speaker drivers built in. And DSP.


For 500EUR each including VAT. I would say the only reason not to try them is that you find them unattractive. Actually I think they look fine, but that's quite a personal thing.

You just need the right streamer - the one you have may be fine, but I would be very tempted to pair those with this:


You would be really hard-pressed to match that in traditional hifi with passive speakers.

I have no affiliation with thomann, but their returns policy is very good, and I have purchased from them before.


Here's my thinking...

What do you have to lose by trying?
You are in France so shipping, delivery, etc. will be very fast and zero-hassle like the UK used to be before Brexit.
You didn't know they existed yesterday. If you try and return and never use them again it's unlikely to make any difference to your life.
You will at least find out something about what you are looking for.
I have the DNP F-109. I know without asking my wife would veto the KRKs! I see the logic of the recommendation, but I'm pleasing two people here.
Would you have a recommendation for a bookshelf/sub combo?
Many thanks for helping
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Mission zx3 and Dali Opticon 6 mark 2 should be within around your budget.

You should consider the latter in a 'difficult' room because the Dali's are easy to position, no need to worry about toeing in angles or leaving half a metre away from a wall as they are designed to use with no toe in, have a wider sweet spot and are designed to.be placed as close as 8 inches. The ribbon tweeters helps spread the the sound with great high frequency detail.
 

escaladiez

Novice Member
Mission zx3 and Dali Opticon 6 mark 2 should be within around your budget.

You should consider the latter in a 'difficult' room because the Dali's are easy to position, no need to worry about toeing in angles or leaving half a metre away from a wall as they are designed to use with no toe in, have a wider sweet spot and are designed to.be placed as close as 8 inches. The ribbon tweeters helps spread the the sound with great high frequency detail.
Thank you. They sound ideal. I've ordered a pair. I'll post the results when I have them setup!
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
The least expensive, and a very good way to get a top class sound in an awkward room, or any room in fact, is with an older Anthem MRX receiver.

People may well say, even here, that receivers are not the best for music. But an exception must be made for the Anthems.

Even without using ARC they sound very good indeed in stereo.

With the ARC room correction it will be a revelation.

Either the MXR 510, 310 or 710 will be an excellent buy for you and your situation.

If they are out of your budget, then either the MXR 500 or 700 will also d a great job.
 

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