Advice - Monolith or Monolith+

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by imranuk, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. imranuk

    imranuk
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    Hi,

    Apart from the obvious extra 200W RMS, is there anything else one should consider if going with a Monolith+?
    I intend to run this through my Onkyo 608 for the time being.

    On another note I've read about interference if the sub cable runs alongside or crosses over power cables, how big an issue is this?
    I intend to run my sub cable under the floors and it's guaranteed to cross or run side by side power cables, is there such a thing a shielded sub woofer cable?
    I will invest in a shielded power cable for the sub but I won't be able to do the same for the rest of the power cables running under the floor and next to my AMP/HMC cabinet.

    Cheers
     
  2. imranuk

    imranuk
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    I just answered my own question about the shielded subwoofer cable which can be found by searching cacha google :D
     
  3. sanejo

    sanejo
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    There has been a bit of discussion about this Mono / Mono+ issue. There are advantages to either decision. The standard Mono is cheaper and goes slightly lower, the Mono+ has more power obviously, which means a slight increase in max volume but more importantly the Mono+ amp is working with less stress for any given output, i.e. more headroom.

    I have the standard Mono in a room that is roughly 4m x 3m, I watch movies at around 11db below my Pio amps reference level, I don't think my Mono is ever working at anything like its maximum capability, I'm very happy. However there are plenty of Mono+ owners on the forum who are equally happy with their choice. The general opinion, and my experience is that the BK sub range is pound for pound, pretty much as good as it gets, whichever Mono you decide on you'll be getting a bargain that I'm sure will keep you smiling.
     
  4. imranuk

    imranuk
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    Thanks sanejo, some sound advice (excuse the pun)
    The room itself is 4mx8m and I am concious this is a large space hence the query around the mono+
    I think it would make sense for me to go down the mono+ route
     
  5. roaduck

    roaduck
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    Both of the Monolith models are terrific imranuk but with the plus version you will get more headroom, less thermal compression and lower distortion for the same volume output of the standard Mono.

    As an aside my upstairs bedroom is 16' X 9' which is roughly 4 X 3 meters and I have a FF Mono+ which you'd think would be slightly OTT in a diddy room but in practice it's fine with no boom and I have no tone controls, no AVR and no equaliser.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  6. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    If you secretly swapped any M+ owners sub with the M, I bet they wouldn't notice. :devil: I would buy whichever one you 'want', the M+ will be the better sub but in most cases you probably wouldn't notice the difference, both will be excellent!

    Adam :)
     
  7. Spiros77

    Spiros77
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    I'm actually interested on this as well. I'm with my hand on my pocket and failed to decide on which one for a while now. Probably like the op wondering if there is no noticeable difference between the two, why they've been even offered by BK ? Surely nobody wants to waste £100
     
  8. rob_brum

    rob_brum
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    I've got the same dilemma, and then then there is ff or df !
     
  9. maxkolonko123

    maxkolonko123
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    I've go for Mono+ DF after selling my PSW3500 i hope i will not regret it...and will let u know about my impression...
     
  10. imranuk

    imranuk
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    I went with the Mono FF, after much digging around the DF may have caused issues with my raised wood floor and I didn't want to take the risk. As for the Mono+ I just couldn't convince myself the additional power would keep the following at bay a) the missus would go nuts and b) my neighbour would go bonkers :D
     
  11. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    Hmmm I did reply to this yesterday but it was around the time the site crashed so I guess it didn't work...

    Basically my initial response was a bit light hearted but I wasn't saying there are no differences, just probably fairly subtle ones for day to day listening at normal levels. If you are really into your music then the better driver in the plus should be more noticeable than for movies where it is generally harder to distinguish anything other than SPL and depth.

    If you like listening very loud then again the Plus should have the edge but I think you would need to listen back to back to be certain.

    Personally if it was only the increase in power I wouldn't bother but the addition of a better driver makes it a harder call and not having heard both it is just conjecture really.

    I can't see anyone being disappointed with either but my own personality traits would steer me towards the Plus, just because it is :)

    Adam
     
  12. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    With regards the FF vs DF thing, theoretically they should perform identically, bass being omnidirectional, and I normally dismiss the notion that DF is worse on a floating floor because the mass being oscillated is so small compared to the energy in the wavelengths themselves, I find it hard to believe the driver orientation makes any difference.

    However not having a floating floor and have heard so many people claim it does making a difference (I don't know any who have actually compared the same sub in both orientations though) that I suppose it is something some people might want to consider to be 'on the safe side'.

    If you have a concrete floor just pick the one you like the look of best. :)

    Adam
     
  13. fayeanddavid

    fayeanddavid
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    I was faced with the same problem 7-8 months ago, so I phoned BK, had a chat to Tom, explained rooms size, movie/music habits and ratios and was ready to be upsold to a Monolith+, however he recommended the Monolith with not attempt to upsell, have to say that did impress me and has continued to do so, especially in the tough times we're in.
    Give Tom a call at BK, knowledgeable man, take a listen and then decide, may save you £100.00 or may cost you £100.00, has to be worth it though.

    Oh, and you won't be disappointed no matter what you do, fabulous piece of kit and furniture
     
  14. fayeanddavid

    fayeanddavid
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    And FWIW ours is a DF, brilliant!!
     
  15. maxkolonko123

    maxkolonko123
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    Hey guys how should i setup sub for audyssey xt32?? and the speakers should be set for Large or with Monolith on Small...sorry for noob question and thanks for help
     
  16. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    Speakers set to small if you are using a sub :)
     
  17. imranuk

    imranuk
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    This is what I did, I spoke to Tom before making my purchase and his suggestion was to go with FF on a raised floor :)
     
  18. rob_brum

    rob_brum
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    What difference is the floating floor meant to make? I was thinking of the df purely so my 2yr old doesn't have something to prod and poke at!
     
  19. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    True floating floors (not laminate flooring) can be excited by sympathetic bass frequencies. This is generally caused by the energy within the bass soundwaves causing the floor to resonate and not as some people assume from the fact the driver faces the floor, although the bass point source is usually closer than with an FF which may make the difference.

    The mechanical vibrations of the driver oscillating are unlikely to have enough energy to cause this affect, whether DF or FF.

    If you want to play it safe get a FF if you have a floating floor. :)

    Adam
     
  20. rob_brum

    rob_brum
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    By 'floating floor' do you mean any floor that isn't solid ie concrete? :blush:

    Mine is just a 'standard floor' with plywood on the floorboards and then slate tiles on top.

    Apologies for the daft question!

    Rob
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  21. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    Not daft as I think there are differences but not being in the trade I am not sure of the exact definition.

    If your floor has any kind of give in it or you can feel heavy people walking around on it then that is the kind of floor most susceptible.

    Some wooden floors may be more solid than others but the longer the unsupported (by downstairs walls or RSJ) floors are, the more likely to flex.

    Jump up and down and see what you think :)

    Adam
     
  22. imranuk

    imranuk
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    A Floating Floor for example would be your first floor or your attic floor i.e. any floor that is raised above ground.
    For me the Monolith is going on the ground floor however I have a large basement that has 6ft clearance and the wood floor on the ground level is sat on joists, however I will be shortly laying a solid oak floor on top of the original wood floor for a different finish.

    The only thing I wanted to prevent was the possibility of the DF causing vibrations as much as a wood floor will be solid it's supposed to have play to allow for movement during the change in the seasons hence my concern that a sub of this nature could create issues.

    Just playing it safe, saying that Tom told me about Monolith that are in attics on raised floors that have no issues so it's just one of those things :D
     
  23. jjmurphy21187

    jjmurphy21187
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    I am currently facing the same decision, monolith or monolith +

    I rang BK & spoke to Tom, told him that I had read that the mono+ is reviewed as having slightly worse low-end compared to the standard mono, but the mono+ has incrwased volume output across the rest of the range, however he seemed to disagree about the lacking low-end of the mono+. This makes sense in my head, why charge £100 for a sub which doesn't go as low...

    Has anyone compared them side-by-side or heard both to compare? My thinking is to opt for:

    Mono: Better low-end will be used more often than the slightly higher volume output of the mono+
    Mono+: The low-end difference could be negligible, and with an eye for future expansion etc, the additional headroom provided by the + would give it a longer life within my setup.

    If the low-end response is very negligible I will probably opt for the + however if it's noticable then given the few times the sub will be used at very high output levels the standard mono will be my choice.

    Any feedback from your guys would be grately appreciated!

    Joe
     
  24. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Where have you read that Joe, was it here or somewhere else ?
     
  25. jjmurphy21187

    jjmurphy21187
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    To be honest I'm not 100% sure as I have read nearly all of the 5 chain-threads relating to monoliths and every other one I can find to try to get a direct comparison between the standard and the +

    It was definately on a forum... Is there any truth to it??

    I'm swaying towards the mono+ at the moment as the slight mention of 'not quite as low' from the + is outweighed by the extra headroom. Plus I'm not intending to ever get rid of the sub so might as well have the extra power just in case...
     
  26. Wilseus

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    I think BK themselves have said so. AFAIK the Fs of the Eminence LAB12 driver in the Mono+ is a couple of Hz higher than the driver in the standard Mono (which is itself a modded LAB12 I believe.)

    I think the general consensus is that the difference in extension is not really noticeable unless you actually measure it, and the actual room and the sub's positioning in the room is likely to have a much larger effect on the extension than this tiny difference.
     
  27. jjmurphy21187

    jjmurphy21187
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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    So the driver in the standard mono is very similar to that in the mono+? I thought the standard mono used a peerless XXLS12 and the mono+ used a lab 12 (higher wattage, slightly better SPL and slightly better control).

    From the information on the website the frequency response and the tuning of the enclosure appears to be the same. Having said that there are no freq response graphs shown and the two models (std & +) both have the same manual...

    When you say extension, do you mean extension of the freq range/response or the extended throw with the different driver? Surely an additional 200W and better driver would make a noticable difference to the sound?? If not why would BK bother to make the + model??
     
  28. jjmurphy21187

    jjmurphy21187
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    Does anyone know the 'Fs' of each model to compare? I.e. is the difference 1Hz or +/-5Hz for instance?
     
  29. Wilseus

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    When I talk of "extension" I'm talking about bass extension, the lower the better. The Fs of the LAB12 is 22Hz, as you can see here LAB 12 but I don't know what the spec of the driver in the Mono is. I think it's an "Audodrive" something or other, but I can find no data on it. I'd guess it's a couple of Hz lower, so 20Hz or so.
    The Mono+ has more power and headroom, which is the main reason for choosing it. Having seen YouTube videos of people bottoming their standard Monoliths (good as they are) I went for the + model.

    N.B. If you want to know more about Fs and other Thiele-Small parameters, Wikipedia is a good place to look. The Fs in particular is the resonant frequency of the driver, the speaker will make sounds lower than that but will start to roll off below this frequency.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  30. jjmurphy21187

    jjmurphy21187
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    Gottcha. So basically what I have read so far is correct based on figures/stats, mono = slightly lower, mono+ = louder.

    As I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) Fs is related to the driver itself, however this can be insignificant compared to Fb when the driver is in an enclosure. Presumably the BK enclosure would be tuned to the same frequency and thus the lower Fs of the standard mono isn't noticable due to the enslosure in which it is located.

    So in real world terms both will have the same (near as damn it) Fb, but the Mono+ will have higher SPL and more headroom with which to operate?
     

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