Advice for On Wall Speakers for Best Movie Experience

denevil

Standard Member
Wife gets a new kitchen and I get a new TV / family room.
With this new TV room (4.1m long by 3.6m wide) I would like a special sound system for movies .... is it really big enough for 5.1.2 ?
Given the wifes input, the size and multi function use of the room I am looking to go with on wall speakers (in wall not option)... though if needed could use a big center speaker on the cabinet under the TV.
Budget is ideally around 7K ... tho could pay more if really worth it .... looking for advice on which speakers/sub and amp to go with it.
I looked at Dali Oberon / Opteron and Monitor Audio Soundframe which look good on paper.
Local hifi shop closed meaning not easy to find somewhere to go listen .... will have to look further afield I guess.
Still while waiting would be good to get some advice.
thx
Richard (Welwyn/Herts)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Wife gets a new kitchen and I get a new TV / family room.
With this new TV room (4.1m long by 3.6m wide) I would like a special sound system for movies .... is it really big enough for 5.1.2 ?
Given the wifes input, the size and multi function use of the room

Can you post a floorplan (draw on paper and upload or do one quick with windows paint) and tell us what the wife is planning in the tv room regarding multi function use of room? Also if the room has some fireplace and windows/doors draw them aswell plus the planned seating / tv. Do you have free hands regarding where couch/seats, speakers and subwoofer(s) go?

It´s questionable to be spending big bucks if wife calls the shots. The deal should be she gets new kitchen and you have the tv room where she can have a say for the looks/size/finish of products, but that`s it. :) 5.1.2 is easily possible in the small room, although with healthy budget i would consider buying two subwoofers right away for certain benefits. We have members even with 7.2.4 system in smaller rooms so there is possibilities..

 

denevil

Standard Member
In fairness to my wife, I had a big cinema room in the last house and am happy she has agreed to me buying another set of speakers ... previously I had polk audio 7.1 and klipsch reference in 5.1.2 .... though was never 100% happy even considering spending big on the amp and cables.

Please see crude drawing attached. Room is currently under construction and not sure on exact internal height, but I think the guess of starting at 2.2m to max height of 3.4m will be reasonable ballpark. Room is 4.1m long and 3.5m wide and upto 3.4m high.

Room will be the family TV room and plan is for an L shape lounge settee for 6 people.
TV is an 85" sony 4K. Other than that can do what I like, the door will open outwards.

I like the idea of on wall as I can move them around and upgrade which I had issues in past after using in wall.

I just seen details on new Cinergy speakers which I would really like to hear but I suspect will be out of budget ....
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1423.jpg
    IMG_1423.jpg
    81.6 KB · Views: 24

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the drawing! You have the door/opening close to left main speaker so on-wall is quite ideal route. Not sure how expensive Polks you had, but if similar price to klipsch reference (not ref. premiere) then this could been the issue as they were cheap. You can`t make poor speakers sound amazing suddenly with expensive amp and the exotic expensive cables are more or less snake oil. Put more effort on room (carpet on floor or at least thick rug in front of speakers (LCR), some thick curtains on windows, acoustic panels on side and rear wall specific spots - no worry there is wife friendly ones too..) and then high quality speakers of course with one or two subwoofers!

Let`s calculate few packages:

Dali Opticon LCR mk2 x3 with Oberon On-Wall surround channels, Dali E-60 in-ceiling, 2x SB2000 Pro subwoofers and Denon X3700H = 5132£ without discounts.

M&K MP950 x3 and M40T surround channels, IC95 pair for atmos, 2x SVS SB2000 Pro subwoofers and Denon X3700H receiver = slightly below 7000£ with possible discounts.

For SVS subwoofers you typically get -10% off from forum advertisers.

The 15cm deep Arendal 1961 Monitor, 1961 Centre and 1961 Surround, Kef Ci160QR for atmos, 2x 1961 1S subwoofers and Denon X3700H = 4800£ unless there is some small fees due to brexit. Shipping is free and VAT included. Arendal sells direct to customer with 60-day buy&try. They don´t have in-ceiling model yet, but you don´t have to have matching speakers there. Kef is probably one of the most known company making coaxial drivers so the QR near top of range would surely do great. As for the speakers and subwoofers there is plenty of feedback from forum members and reviews. It is very clear that the bang for buck is very good here and it would still leave to spend some for the room! We have 1961 speaker thread in home cinema speaker section if you require more information from owners..


I`m not sure how you planned to place the couch as the ceiling slopes at the back, hopefully it`s not pushed against rear wall fully. The high ceiling would be quite beneficial regarding the ceiling speakers for atmos, but depending where your couch goes. If they have to be installed in the part where the ceiling slopes (angle) then you need to have pair that allows the tweeters to be angled so can point them shooting down. Of course you can mount on-wall speakers for the atmos on ceiling if you can´t make holes. Example the 1961 angled height speaker which can also be used as front heights mounted on front wall high up just below ceiling. Dali has Alteco C-1 which can be used in same way. SVS has Prime Elevation for front/side wall or ceiling mounting.


PS. If you are thinking why two subwoofers read the short article or listen the short video clip on the link below. If you were to go with two subwoofers i would prefer to have freedom placing them, not where wife says they should go to look best as there is no guarantee that is optimal. I think it would be very clear that your family would prefer the two subwoofer route so the bass would be more balanced in more than one seat plus the bass wouldn´t locate same way so overall more balanced more room filling bass. If you feel you don´t want to spend 2k£ for subwoofers we can look something cheaper for you, example SVS SB1000 Pro at 575£/each roughly with discount from forum members. Personally i wouldn´t save here as you have specific movie room, the 2x SB2000 Pro or 2x Arendal 1961 1S should be awesome in your compact room without taking ton of space!


There could be cheaper options, but GIK is quite well known regarding acoustic panels.
 

denevil

Standard Member
got a couple of months to research before buying, so all that information is very handy .... I think the acoustic panels will be useful.

Many thanks for taking the time to help
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
got a couple of months to research before buying, so all that information is very handy .... I think the acoustic panels will be useful.

Many thanks for taking the time to help

Even better if you can get to listen few different ones. For Dali and M&K hopefully local dealer.

I chose the Denon X3700H due to price/features/performance/connections (preouts). I think it´s hard to beat at that price point leaving plenty of money for quality speakers and subwoofers. You can expand your system up to 7.2.4 with that unit (adding poweramp) if you would change room in future for larger one or would just want to get more speakers. It also has dual sub eq feature which many more expensive units lacks. Denon X4700H brings Auro 3D mostly. Marantz SR6015 is closely same unit as 3700H but with a little different tuning and higher price tag. Yamaha RX-A4A is probably closest competitor, but it is stuck on 5.2.2/7.2 system so you can´t add more channels in future, it also lacks the separate distance (delay) set for dual subs..

Subwoofer wise make sure you don´t buy any of those cheap bundled options. Stick with companies that are more specialized building them with years experience, that is why i linked SVS and Arendal which ticks many boxes for most customers.

You can also use Youtube your advantage to see the real size of products in room. Here is the Arendal system i linked earlier:

 

denevil

Standard Member
few more further questions if I may.

My wife hates subwoofers shaking the house, its fine when we are all watching a family movie. Its not when people are trying to get to sleep. Being slightly hard of hearing I cant just turn the volume right down. My Sonos bar has a nighttime mode and I would really like something similar.

In my last house, I ended up using the monitor gold woofer remote control to turn it on/off ... but ideal would be if the amp has a quiet mode while still leaving voice at reasonable level but without the room shaking effect..... I looked at the Denon manual online but couldnt see anything ...

Secondly I spent alot of money on inwall 7.1 using Liberty THX Speaker Cable and when we moved to cabinet speakers with 5.1.2 I used CSk PROflat 25 Flat HiFi Speaker cable AWG 13. To be honest I thought it was fine. With setup for this new system any recommendations for cable ?

Thirdly I have seen some posts with preamps .... for room this size I dont need one of those do I ?

Would you go 5.1.2 or 7.2.4 in such a small room ?

Sorry for the confusion but best to get advice now before biting the bullet.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
few more further questions if I may.

My wife hates subwoofers shaking the house, its fine when we are all watching a family movie. Its not when people are trying to get to sleep. Being slightly hard of hearing I cant just turn the volume right down. My Sonos bar has a nighttime mode and I would really like something similar.

In my last house, I ended up using the monitor gold woofer remote control to turn it on/off ... but ideal would be if the amp has a quiet mode while still leaving voice at reasonable level but without the room shaking effect..... I looked at the Denon manual online but couldnt see anything ...

Secondly I spent alot of money on inwall 7.1 using Liberty THX Speaker Cable and when we moved to cabinet speakers with 5.1.2 I used CSk PROflat 25 Flat HiFi Speaker cable AWG 13. To be honest I thought it was fine. With setup for this new system any recommendations for cable ?

Thirdly I have seen some posts with preamps .... for room this size I dont need one of those do I ?

Would you go 5.1.2 or 7.2.4 in such a small room ?

Sorry for the confusion but best to get advice now before biting the bullet.

You will need av-receiver like the Denon X3700H i mentioned. From that model upwards they have the Audussey LFC feature which should be quite effective and you can also use the Dynamic Volume feature at night time so you won`t running to remote turning it down as you have boosted to hear the dialogue. Or if you buy SVS subwoofer it has phone app control so you can control the sub easily with it too.


Dynamic Volume​

Solves the problem of large variations in volume level between TV, movies and other content (between quiet passages and loud passages, etc.) by automatically adjusting to the user’s preferred volume setting.
Works with MultEQ® XT32.

Heavy:Most adjustment to softest and loudest sounds.
Medium:Medium adjustment to loudest and softest sound.
Light:Least adjustment to loudest and softest sounds.
Off
(Default):
Do not use “Dynamic Volume”.



Audyssey LFC™​

Adjusts the low frequency band to prevent bass and vibration from being conveyed to neighboring rooms.
Works with MultEQ® XT32.
On:Use “Audyssey LFC™”.
Off
(Default):
Do not use “Audyssey LFC™”.

You don´t need anything too special speaker wire wise. We have ton of members using the affordable German KabelDirekt OFC 2,5mm wire. There is 12500 positive reviews and it`s dirt cheap. Don`t be fooled by the marketing promises of something you never going to hear. We have already blind tests showing audiophiles couldn´t pick the expensive wires over some cheaper one.
Amazon product

If you can`t get sleep without having some known brand wires then 2£/meter would be quite at the max you should pay. Then you can get black or white QED Profile 79 (OFC 2,5mm) from forum advertiser in length you require.

If the family couch isn`t placed against rear wall then you could consider 5.2.4 (or 5.1.4 if 1 sub). One pair slightly in front and 2nd pair slightly behind listeners. See link below for optimal angles/installation.


However as your ceiling vaults on both side with rather short part of flat ceiling so you have to mount the speakers on the vaulted parts i assume. Ceiling speakers which allows you to adjust the tweeters if required could be ideal depending the angle of the vaulting. So it would look something like this to get the ceiling speakers enough wide apart.

FbZVqac.jpg

wSqsszl.jpg
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
New Room - how does it fit with the rest of the house and do you have the ability/budget to consider how to isolate any sound you produce in the room from the rest of the house?

Old kit - have your 'old' loudspeakers gone?

Room - one option is to frame out, or partially frame out, the side, front and rear walls to let you hide/integrate Loudspeakers and acoustic panels and retain a 'clean' look to the room when it is not in cinema mode.

DIY - is a good way to save on the budget if you have the ability to take on some of the work yourself.

Joe

PS Loudspeaker cable - all you require is decent copper of the correct gauge, we use/supply VanDamme Blue Series 2x2.5mm on most systems; VanDamme Blue Series Loudspeaker Cable 2x2.5mm - The Media Factory
 

denevil

Standard Member
Gasp thanks alot for all the detail and the links, its really really helpful right now.

Been to look at the room and think given its size I will stick with 5.1.2

Sold all previous gear on ebay, actually got more for Klipsch ref premier 280 and 260 than when I imported them new. Good but not wow .... I really want to find somewhere I can listen to the on wall's. Nintronics are close, but not been able to contact them .. maybe my budget is too small for these full on places.

Heres the current progress on the new room ... going to stick 28mm plywood on conntecting wall and 50mm sound insulation .... hopefully thats good enough !

Sorry another question ... should I run two cables for future bi-wiring option or again with my room size thats overkill ?

thanks again

Richard
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1446.jpg
    IMG_1446.jpg
    95.1 KB · Views: 14

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
No the budget isn`t too low for any hifi shop, quite the opposite. Nintronics carries Dalis so keep calling them could they give you a demo of the Opticon LCR mk2 with SVS SB2000 Pro and X3700H. I´m not sure will you get best pricing from them as their site shows very high prices and old models for subwoofers/av-receivers. But they do give demos that i know from members comments and you can ask them to put up some kind of deal on paper. Ton of dealers including forum advertisers which can give you deal via email.


Do you have any other hifi shops close by? Where do you live exactly?

You don`t need to do bi-wiring it`s waste of money! If you can move couch little bit forward from rear wall then you should really consider the .4 over .2 . You don´t need to buy super expensive ceiling speakers if it comes down to price. This is still dedicated room and if going atmos route i would want the "full" thing. But of course you can pull the wires ready there if you still decide to stick with .2 for now so it´s easy to expand the system later. Here is guide for that:

 

denevil

Standard Member
thanks very interesting ... I will try call them again next week, I am at AL6 0NJ near Welwyn but dont mind driving an hour to get a good demo ... I work in Mayfair, so if can recommend someone in Mayfair/Kings Cross then I can do that as well.

I can realistically only move the couch maybe max 50cm from the wall, is that enough for the .4 atmos ?
 

Yorkshire AV

Active Member
AVForums Sponsor
SVS have just announced their new in-wall subwoofer which looks spectacular.
If you're going down the on-wall option, you could perhaps look at a discrete subwoofer option to still add the depth to your room that you'll want (bass) with above LCR's.

We have a range of DALI in store and in our demo room if you're ever a little further north and fancy a listen :) We have a 9.2.6 cinema room and a 5.1.2 media room.
 

denevil

Standard Member
Thanks …. I could not resist buying a monitor audio PLC350 from the classified forum … thx Gareth!

I had the gold 350 couple years ago and couldn’t resist ….. will hold off on rest until my room is built … unless the right bargain turns up … thx for all the info I know what cable to get now and pretty sure amp will be denon as really need night mode equiv to keep noise down at bedtime
 

The latest video from AVForums

Paramount + UK launch: Halo, Star Trek and Beavis, and all the latest 4K + Movie/TV News
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom