Advantages of Leaving the EU

v2 API

Distinguished Member
Erm I’m 70 and was also around at the time, I oppose anything the Tory’s do in relation to health, housing, education etc, however I was in full agreement with Major’s policy on Europe. I think you’ll find even more homeless now than in the early 90’s, oh and here’s something, homeless people usually don’t vote, they usually, in fact with certainty aren’t registered to vote.

My point stands, it is the responsibility of any individual to inform themselves, ask questions, if they don’t then that clearly is their choice. As for unemployment being high, being unemployed doesn’t disenfranchise an individual, they can still vote!
So you voted Conservative then?
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
I never said it wasn't my opinion. Most people express what they feel or want without IMO so that other people know it is their opinion.

If I post an article or video then it might not be on par with my opinion but it will be something to add to the topic at hand.
No, but your post seemed pretty certain, hence me asking you if we were part of a Federal State of Europe;

“Pretty sure I did not vote for a federal states of europe which is the Rubicon that the Lisbon treaty crossed.”
 

whitesnake11

Well-known Member
So you voted Conservative then?
No Labour, there’s enough Tory sheeple around even in the 90’s and Labour at the time, if I remember correctly, largely supported the treaty. If I’m wrong then no doubt you’ll let me know🙂
 

whitesnake11

Well-known Member

v2 API

Distinguished Member
A call at the Labour Conference for a referendum on Maastricht was rejected.

I was referring more to Neil Kinnock's tenure.
John Smith was the beginning of a shift for Labour. In fact I would say Smith could have been a breath of fresh air for the country despite his view on the EU.

It was a tragic end to someone who seemed like a really decent chap.
 
Last edited:

mrs woman

Well-known Member
Erm I’m 70 and was also around at the time, I oppose anything the Tory’s do in relation to health, housing, education etc, however I was in full agreement with Major’s policy on Europe. I think you’ll find even more homeless now than in the early 90’s, oh and here’s something, homeless people usually don’t vote, they usually, in fact with certainty aren’t registered to vote.

My point stands, it is the responsibility of any individual to inform themselves, ask questions, if they don’t then that clearly is their choice. As for unemployment being high, being unemployed doesn’t disenfranchise an individual, they can still vote!
Erm what does being 70 got to do with being flung out of your home? Thousands literally going into banks and building society's handing in the keys to their homes because they couldn't pay the mortgage? Didn't even wait to go to court to have their house repossessed. Living by the thousands in one room B&B.s with children having to share toilets etc. No TVs. No access to news. Two and three generations of the same families unemployed. People under Waterloo bridge created their own community and if you didn't belong and ventured in there, you were lucky to come out alive. Shall I venture into interest rates at 12-13-14%?

I think it's very mean spirited of you to say that the public should have known what the Maastricht treaty was. Considering this country was in a self made by the Tories crisis of huge proportions that brought folk who even worked as director's and in management and not just lower level jobs to their knees. It is why Labour won such a huge majority in 97. And the slogans by Labour was Education Education Education and "One more day to save the NHS" This is what the people were concerned about. Not a treaty with the EU. If you then say in that climate people should have made themselves aware of this treaty while begging for crumbs, well I don't know what to say. Perhaps it's not worth mentioning to you.
 

whitesnake11

Well-known Member
Erm what does being 70 got to do with being flung out of your home? Thousands literally going into banks and building society's handing in the keys to their homes because they couldn't pay the mortgage? Didn't even wait to go to court to have their house repossessed. Living by the thousands in one room B&B.s with children having to share toilets etc. No TVs. No access to news. Two and three generations of the same families unemployed. People under Waterloo bridge created their own community and if you didn't belong and ventured in there, you were lucky to come out alive. Shall I venture into interest rates at 12-13-14%?

I think it's very mean spirited of you to say that the public should have known what the Maastricht treaty was. Considering this country was in a self made by the Tories crisis of huge proportions that brought folk who even worked as director's and in management and not just lower level jobs to their knees. It is why Labour won such a huge majority in 97. And the slogans by Labour was Education Education Education and "One more day to save the NHS" This is what the people were concerned about. Not a treaty with the EU. If you then say in that climate people should have made themselves aware of this treaty while begging for crumbs, well I don't know what to say. Perhaps it's not worth mentioning to you.
I was pointing out I was around at the time with my eyes wide open and knew what the issues were at the time. As for homeless people I worked with exactly those people, not the people under Waterloo Bridge, but in other parts of the UK. So I don’t need any lectures on homelessness or disadvantaged people.

As for mean spirited, homeless people are not stupid people, they’re homeless due to circumstances whether that’s through loss of employment, addiction issues etc. They do have an awareness of the issues unfortunately they’re victims of their circumstances. I do agree that Europe wasn’t on the radar of the majority of the public, it wasn’t in 2014 before the calls for a referendum, however 1992 Tory over meant was elected whose leader was pro EU and signed the treaty that took us into the EU.

Representative government, like it or loathe it that was the direction of travel of the government at that time. We are where we are in 2021.
 

whitesnake11

Well-known Member
I was referring more to Neil Kinnock's tenure.
John Smith was the beginning of a shift for Labour. In fact I would say Smith could have been a breath of fresh air for the country despite his view on the EU.

It was a stragic end to someone who seemed like a really decent chap.
John Smith would have made an excellent PM.
 

mrs woman

Well-known Member
I was pointing out I was around at the time with my eyes wide open and knew what the issues were at the time. As for homeless people I worked with exactly those people, not the people under Waterloo Bridge, but in other parts of the UK. So I don’t need any lectures on homelessness or disadvantaged people.

As for mean spirited, homeless people are not stupid people, they’re homeless due to circumstances whether that’s through loss of employment, addiction issues etc. They do have an awareness of the issues unfortunately they’re victims of their circumstances. I do agree that Europe wasn’t on the radar of the majority of the public, it wasn’t in 2014 before the calls for a referendum, however 1992 Tory over meant was elected whose leader was pro EU and signed the treaty that took us into the EU.

Representative government, like it or loathe it that was the direction of travel of the government at that time. We are where we are in 2021.
It was good of you helping the homeless. However how many people were not in the position to help the homeless as they fought from becoming homeless themselves. I'm not lecturing you as you give an opinion on one side of the coin, I on the other hand give the other side of the coin which like you I am entitled to do. But to say people are responsible for knowing about this treaty is a bit much under a situation not of their own making where it was impossible to get this information. It's like taking food from someone and then saying they are hungry through their own fault. Many thousands of people couldn't even afford the money for the bus fare to go and vote. Anyone who didn't live through this period might find that hard to believe. But it was so. Lots of people who voted remain say we were conned by brexiteers to vote out, but how many think we were conned to agree to these treaties or just accept them without knowing what we were getting in to?

That is a big question. And although there are lots of plusses being part of the EU, how many minuses are there to consider in order to agree a treaty?
 

whitesnake11

Well-known Member
It was good of you helping the homeless. However how many people were not in the position to help the homeless as they fought from becoming homeless themselves. I'm not lecturing you as you give an opinion on one side of the coin, I on the other hand give the other side of the coin which like you I am entitled to do. But to say people are responsible for knowing about this treaty is a bit much under a situation not of their own making where it was impossible to get this information. It's like taking food from someone and then saying they are hungry through their own fault. Many thousands of people couldn't even afford the money for the bus fare to go and vote. Anyone who didn't live through this period might find that hard to believe. But it was so. Lots of people who voted remain say we were conned by brexiteers to vote out, but how many think we were conned to agree to these treaties or just accept them without knowing what we were getting in to?

That is a big question. And although there are lots of plusses being part of the EU, how many minuses are there to consider in order to agree a treaty?
I know issues around health, education, housing/homelessness are important and should be addressed, however given this is a brexit thread we are in danger of going off topic. A lot of people dislike Tony Blair, however he built new schools, hospitals etc. Ok, the PFI funding is another debate, at least he got things done then really damaged himself taking the country into the war in Iraq, yet another debate.
 

v2 API

Distinguished Member
I think the original point was 'the tories got in so everyone knew what they voted for so must have been happy about the EU. When the truth is they were very different times, compared to today where everyone is an armchair PM.
 

v2 API

Distinguished Member
But then you could say that about almost any issue of the time.
Sure. And I am happy to have another ref to ask the question again, further down the line.
What was voted for 30 years ago in GE doesn't mean it should bind us for the rest of our lives. Nor does the result of this ref.
 

mrs woman

Well-known Member
I agree. I'm bewildered at a number of the previous replies, which have nothing to do with Brexit at all.
So if someone says that back in 1992 everyone should have been fully aware of what the Maastricht treaty was about and it was their responsibility to be informed is rather taking a shortsighted view of the state this country was in. If you are bewildered by someone informing people as to how this country had been taken into further rules a laws but were not fully aware in that era at the time because of forced circumstances, then I'm out of here. I believe in democracy and if someone is not up to the challenge then I can't be bothered.
 

Drongo

Distinguished Member
So if someone says that back in 1992 everyone should have been fully aware of what the Maastricht treaty was about and it was their responsibility to be informed is rather taking a shortsighted view of the state this country was in

I don't think anyone is saying that everyone should have been informed about the Maastricht treaty. Maastricht received pretty widespread television and press coverage at the time. At the end of the day, if you want to find out more about any particular subject, it is down to you to find out.

If you are bewildered by someone informing people as to how this country had been taken into further rules a laws but were not fully aware in that era at the time because of forced circumstances, then I'm out of her.

I'm really sorry, and no offence is intended, but I really fail to see what relevance this has. People are complaining that there was no referendum on Maastricht, but the fact that it appeared in the Conservative Manifesto offered people an opportunity to have their say on this, in much the same way that Brexiteers use the 2019 GE as proof that the UK 'voted for Brexit'. Yes, there was no available internet, but manifestos were available in newsagents and the press covered the subject extensively.

I believe in democracy

I do as well.
 

weaviemx5

Distinguished Member
Sure. And I am happy to have another ref to ask the question again, further down the line.
What was voted for 30 years ago in GE doesn't mean it should bind us for the rest of our lives. Nor does the result of this ref.
Just to clarify, I didn’t bring up the 92 GE because I thought it should bind our direction for the rest of our lives. I brought it up in direct reply to the regularly stated argument that the U.K. electorate weren’t given an opportunity to vote for/against Maastricht and further integration. My point being, the openly Pro-European Conservative Party, who had already shared details of what Maastricht entailed, were voted in to Number 10, suggesting that they were supported enough for a working majority.

I get that people vote for different reasons, but in the end, everyone gets one vote and they make their choice.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: LG C1 OLED + JBL Synthesis SDR-35 First Thoughts, plus TV Show & Disc Reviews & more
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

What's new on UK streaming services for June 2021
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Austrian Audio launches Hi-X65 headphones
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Roku expands streaming content with Roku Originals
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
What's new on Netflix UK for June 2021
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 12th May 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom