Advantages of Leaving the EU

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Now that the UK has left the EU (no longer a member) it might be of interest to highlight the perceive advantages of leaving. A trade deal is still under discussion with the EU, noting the cut-off date of 31 December 2020.

The internet is a good source to tap, bearing in mind things are not so simple as the following reasons indicate. Every point has much deeper implications and lots of entanglements which would require about 600 pages. However, here goes:

1. The cessation of net contributions to the EU would allow for some cuts to taxes or increase in government spending.

2. Be able to make all our own laws with no oversight from external courts like the ECJ and Parliament to be supreme. The ultimate legal jurisdiction will be be Supreme Court of the United Kingdom.

3. Be able to control immigration into this country, this in turn leads to greater border security.

4. Be able to strike trade deals with anyone in the world with no ‘interference’ from the EU.

5. Be free of all those really annoying rules and regulations which the EU has imposed on trade in goods and services.

6. Parliament will be sovereign. No external authority will have the right to impose directives. The average UK voter has more effective representation in Westminster than in Brussels.

7. The future direction of EU requires greater integration and so much less national sovereignty. The military forces, police and other security areas might become integrated.

8. The EU's Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) uses up over 35% of the EU budget and this goes to less than 5% of the population. Basically French farmers are being funded by British tax-payers.

9. Only 6% of UK businesses export to the EU but all have to abide by EU rules. According to an Institute of Directors survey, half of businesses thought the UK could make a success of Brexit, and 46% thought it would have a positive impact on red tape.

10. Leaving would encourage British firms to manufacture more and rely less on imports, particularly in industries that depend more on quality engineering than the cost of raw materials, such as cars, which currently account for 9.7% of our exports.

11. UK contributions to the EU have helped finance huge Spanish trawlers who have vacuumed up and depleted our waters of fish.

No doubt there are other perceive advantages of leaving the EU, but the above are for starters.

Good luck!
:)
 

Panavision

Distinguished Member
1. The cessation of net contributions to the EU would allow for some cuts to taxes or increase in government spending.

Perhaps. But we would lose advantage in trade with the Single Market. It remains to be seen if we can increase productivity and sell it to the world.

2. Be able to make all our own laws with no oversight from external courts like the ECJ and Parliament to be supreme. The ultimate legal jurisdiction will be be Supreme Court of the United Kingdom.

We could make our own laws, obviously our MEPs in the past voted in favour of these directives. The UK also had the power of veto, had the ability to stop certain laws going through like money laundering laws. Something we have benefitted from, obviously.

3. Be able to control immigration into this country, this in turn leads to greater border security.

Could control it whilst in the EU. The UK didn't bother under Labour and Tories.

4. Be able to strike trade deals with anyone in the world with no ‘interference’ from the EU.

As long as the Single Market wasn't affected, the UK could strike bilateral deals with any country.

5. Be free of all those really annoying rules and regulations which the EU has imposed on trade in goods and services.

The EU never imposed them, they were voted by MEPs. Some rules I didn't agree with it, btw. Which ones annoyed you?

6. Parliament will be sovereign. No external authority will have the right to impose directives. The average UK voter has more effective representation in Westminster than in Brussels.

Parliament was always sovereign. The EU never imposed directives, they were voted on and passed in law.

7. The future direction of EU requires greater integration and so much less national sovereignty. The military forces, police and other security areas might become integrated.

More likely now that the UK is out. The irony. :D

8. The EU's Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) uses up over 35% of the EU budget and this goes to less than 5% of the population. Basically French farmers are being funded by British tax-payers.

:D The UK doesn't get benefits? I'm not sure about this one. Will require research. You have a source for this?

9. Only 6% of UK businesses export to the EU but all have to abide by EU rules. According to an Institute of Directors survey, half of businesses thought the UK could make a success of Brexit, and 46% thought it would have a positive impact on red tape.

Winners and losers. I know we are moving exports to Asia, but the EU can do the same, and the EU have more buying and selling power.

10. Leaving would encourage British firms to manufacture more and rely less on imports, particularly in industries that depend more on quality engineering than the cost of raw materials, such as cars, which currently account for 9.7% of our exports.

Manufacture what? We don't have a home-grown industry like the Germans and French do.

11. UK contributions to the EU have helped finance huge Spanish trawlers who have vacuumed up and depleted our waters of fish.

Pesky Spanish, I knew it!!! Source for this?

No doubt there are other perceive advantages of leaving the EU, but the above are for starters.

Good luck!
:)

Indeed.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Earthrod, much of what you say is exactly what Brexiters repeated during the campaign and have done since. Highly questionable in all honesty.

Panavision has covered the points well. And all these "advantages" could be described as being given with one hand but taken away with the other.

We will come to find out which hand in fact contains more.

And yes, some sources would be nice for some of that you have implied.
 
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psikey

Distinguished Member
Glad you posted this as often seems only Anti-Brexit posters are in force at the moment without crossing lines.

  1. One big one for me is that People of the UK have direct control of its leaders & can change them every 5 years or sooner. While in EU we only have a minority share of a vote to determine who our leaders would be and only have veto rights on a decreasing number of things (EU wants to get rid of Veto's).
  2. To me it was also a vote to ask if we want to be part of an EU Super state, ultimately aiming to be similar to US, or be an independent nation like Canada even though its attached to the large USA.
  3. I think more governance at a local level is important, we moan about how Westminster is remote to local issues/priorities and yet giving control over to people even further away in EU with totally different cultures/histories is even more remote!
  4. Removes us as a barrier to further EU integration and becoming United States of Europe. There are many countries that seem to want that (driven mostly by Belgium, Germany, France etc.) But could also cause other countries to want to back out of EU too as they are starting to realise they are getting reduced sovereignty/control over their own countries.
  5. Have full control of actions to react to economic threats/opportunities such as interest rates, taxes, provide government business support etc. Keep independent £ currency as I'm sure closer EU integration will also mean you have to be in Euro going forward.


Just a thought, why do we not all consider Canadians stupid for not wanting to become a state of the USA?

This was an Americans view I thought had similarities to my feelings about UK/EU:


Well as an American I can say I don’t want a merger between Canada and the United States.
Firstly this would be extremely overcomplicated, unnecessary, and would potentially cause mass unrest. Canada is a wealthy and successful nation on its own, why would it desire to join the United States? Our two countries as similar as they are, are distinct, and have separate identities. It’s already too difficult to deal with our 320 million people living in our borders.
Secondly our own country has too many of its own problems to be worrying about trying to merge into a larger country. Our country is too polarized to deal with something like that. Roughly one half of the country are conservative, and certainly wouldn’t like the social-democratic attitude of most Canadians when they can’t even get along with the social-democratic attitudes of Americans already living here.
Thirdly, I want both our countries to remain distinct. As much as our countries are similar, Canada and America are two special, and separate nations with different backstories, and history.
 
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klaxhu

Suspended
Glad you posted this as often seems only Anti-Brexit posters are in force at the moment without crossing lines.

  1. One big one for me is that People of the UK have direct control of its leaders & can change them every 5 years or sooner. While in EU we only have a minority share of a vote to determine who our leaders would be and only have veto rights on a decreasing number of things (EU wants to get rid of Veto's).
  2. To me it was also a vote to ask if we want to be part of an EU Super state, ultimately aiming to be similar to US, or be an independent nation like Canada even though its attached to the large USA.
  3. I think more governance at a local level is important, we moan about how Westminster is remote to local issues/priorities and yet giving control over to people even further away in EU with totally different cultures/histories is even more remote!
  4. Removes us as a barrier to further EU integration and becoming United States of Europe. There are many countries that seem to want that (driven mostly by Belgium, Germany, France etc.) But could also cause other countries to want to back out of EU too as they are starting to realise they are getting reduced sovereignty/control over their own countries.
  5. Have full control of actions to react to economic threats/opportunities such as interest rates, taxes, provide government business support etc. Keep independent £ currency as I'm sure closer EU integration will also mean you have to be in Euro going forward.

1. Not solved by Brexit. We could do in the EU as well and they in turn represented us. Both nationally in the UK elections and in the EU in the European Parliament Elections. What number of things? Please provide proof for your veto claim.
2. Nothing to do with the EU. But it is a fair point: something you could have achieved by voting for your MEP that has the same views.
3. Nothing to do with the EU, these rules are established in the UK.
4. Nothing that Brexit could solve either. What is to say that 20 Goverments from now they won't want to join the USoE because they will have the benefits they will require at that point. Not that USoE is a thing. Proof that those countries want that? How are other countries wanting to maybe leave the EU is a benefit of Brexit (again, provide proof for that claim)
5. Not solved by Brexit. We have this power today to fully decide what want to do as we did in 2008 and as we did this year with COVID-19 (which, btw, turned out to be one of the worst lines of decisions within all countries in the EU, grades fiasco, lives lost, jobs lost, etc)

So, to sum up, I cannot even see ONE benefit listed.

To keep it as on topic as possible, the biggest benefit that I can see through Brexit is country forced reform: the UK cannot wiggle out of this easily, it will really have to change the way it carries responsibility, change and accountability to their voters. And maybe voters also will think twice before believing every information passed on as the truth when it reality they are pure and blatant lies.
 
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EarthRod

Distinguished Member
On a more subjective note:

The EU is purely a bureaucratic organisation. To clarify: an massively expensive, bloated, over-populated bureaucratic organisation staffed in the main by very well-paid state officials. The huge EU budgets and accounts are not audited. Gravy train all the way.

It is not a country, it is not a state. It is detached and moves in its vast entirety to two different capitals twice a year. Blind faith and optimism is driving the organisation forward to what it hopes is full integration. A form of totalitarianism. It is already dictatorial.

Any criticism or any objection to the future objectives of the organisation is belittled and/or discarded.

If only it had stayed as the Common Market and not ballooned out into the bloated bureaucratic organisation it has become.

Oops - that's done it :eek:
 

klaxhu

Suspended
On a more subjective note:

The EU is purely a bureaucratic organisation. To clarify: an massively expensive, bloated, over-populated bureaucratic organisation staffed in the main by very well-paid state officials. The huge EU budgets and accounts are not audited. Gravy train all the way.

It is not a country, it is not a state. It is detached and moves in its vast entirety to two different capitals twice a year. Blind faith and optimism is driving the organisation forward to what it hopes is full integration. A form of totalitarianism. It is already dictatorial.

Any criticism or any objection to the future objectives of the organisation is belittled and/or discarded.

If only it had stayed as the Common Market and not ballooned out into the bloated bureaucratic organisation it has become.

Oops - that's done it :eek:

By subjective, you mean ... fabrications?
If you disagree I am glad to be provided with some facts proving what you've said.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
@klaxhu, the reported post is clearly labelled as a subjective opinion of the EU and not an expression of fact

On this forum we permit robust discussion, including opinions you do not agree with. Members are reminded moderators are not here to moderate subjective opinions of the EU or any national government of any nation, just as moderators would not moderate your opinion of a film or new television

Carry on

Many thanks
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
On a more subjective note:

The EU is purely a bureaucratic organisation. To clarify: an massively expensive, bloated, over-populated bureaucratic organisation staffed in the main by very well-paid state officials. The huge EU budgets and accounts are not audited. Gravy train all the way.

It is not a country, it is not a state. It is detached and moves in its vast entirety to two different capitals twice a year. Blind faith and optimism is driving the organisation forward to what it hopes is full integration. A form of totalitarianism. It is already dictatorial.

Any criticism or any objection to the future objectives of the organisation is belittled and/or discarded.

If only it had stayed as the Common Market and not ballooned out into the bloated bureaucratic organisation it has become.

Oops - that's done it :eek:

By your own admission you note that this is subjective. And whilst I can agree with some of what you have said here, you started the thread asking for advantages and disadvantages of Brexit.

I would have hoped that those advantages and disadvantages could have been objectively assessed through supporting evidence as to why they are exactly that. For example Panavision asked for some sources with regards to a few of your initial points.

However I say the above in the past tense as it now appears as though you have decided to leave your own thread and any subsequent conversation after just a few posts.

Which seems a little odd and kneejerk to be honest, but you are of course free to do as you please :)
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
Glad you posted this as often seems only Anti-Brexit posters are in force at the moment without crossing lines.

  1. One big one for me is that People of the UK have direct control of its leaders & can change them every 5 years or sooner. While in EU we only have a minority share of a vote to determine who our leaders would be and only have veto rights on a decreasing number of things (EU wants to get rid of Veto's).
  2. To me it was also a vote to ask if we want to be part of an EU Super state, ultimately aiming to be similar to US, or be an independent nation like Canada even though its attached to the large USA.
  3. I think more governance at a local level is important, we moan about how Westminster is remote to local issues/priorities and yet giving control over to people even further away in EU with totally different cultures/histories is even more remote!
  4. Removes us as a barrier to further EU integration and becoming United States of Europe. There are many countries that seem to want that (driven mostly by Belgium, Germany, France etc.) But could also cause other countries to want to back out of EU too as they are starting to realise they are getting reduced sovereignty/control over their own countries.
  5. Have full control of actions to react to economic threats/opportunities such as interest rates, taxes, provide government business support etc. Keep independent £ currency as I'm sure closer EU integration will also mean you have to be in Euro going forward.


Just a thought, why do we not all consider Canadians stupid for not wanting to become a state of the USA?

This was an Americans view I thought had similarities to my feelings about UK/EU:


Well as an American I can say I don’t want a merger between Canada and the United States.
Firstly this would be extremely overcomplicated, unnecessary, and would potentially cause mass unrest. Canada is a wealthy and successful nation on its own, why would it desire to join the United States? Our two countries as similar as they are, are distinct, and have separate identities. It’s already too difficult to deal with our 320 million people living in our borders.
Secondly our own country has too many of its own problems to be worrying about trying to merge into a larger country. Our country is too polarized to deal with something like that. Roughly one half of the country are conservative, and certainly wouldn’t like the social-democratic attitude of most Canadians when they can’t even get along with the social-democratic attitudes of Americans already living here.
Thirdly, I want both our countries to remain distinct. As much as our countries are similar, Canada and America are two special, and separate nations with different backstories, and history.

The American / Canadian comparison is an interesting one.

They already allow the crossing of their borders without a passport.

And you can use Toronto Airport as a point of entry for the USA.

I can't imagine either of the above would get support among Brexit supporters if they were applied to the future UK / EU relationship.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
@klaxhu, the reported post is clearly labelled as a subjective opinion of the EU and not an expression of fact

On this forum we permit robust discussion, including opinions you do not agree with. Members are reminded moderators are not here to moderate subjective opinions of the EU or any national government of any nation, just as moderators would not moderate your opinion of a film or new television

Carry on

Many thanks
Its as if the hardcore ProEU members are trying to close ProLeave threads down.

Please keep discussions in line with thread title. We already know certain members will try to rubbish/discredit anything against being in EU and have other threads for that.
 

klaxhu

Suspended
[/QUOTE]
@klaxhu, the reported post is clearly labelled as a subjective opinion of the EU and not an expression of fact

On this forum we permit robust discussion, including opinions you do not agree with. Members are reminded moderators are not here to moderate subjective opinions of the EU or any national government of any nation, just as moderators would not moderate your opinion of a film or new television

Carry on

Many thanks

Understood. I can understand how you don't want to moderate content.

By your own admission you note that this is subjective. And whilst I can agree with some of what you have said here, you started the thread asking for advantages and disadvantages of Brexit.

I would have hoped that those advantages and disadvantages could have been objectively assessed through supporting evidence as to why they are exactly that. For example Panavision asked for some sources with regards to a few of your initial points.

However I say the above in the past tense as it now appears as though you have decided to leave your own thread and any subsequent conversation after just a few posts.

Which seems a little odd and kneejerk to be honest, but you are of course free to do as you please :)

It's still shocking that someone can seriously think that the EU is a dictatorship.
Only someone who has never lived in one can say this. I should just put some people on ignore: all we get is a made-up ideas, never able to back anything up with facts and I fall into the trap :) It's my fault, really ...
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
By your own admission you note that this is subjective. And whilst I can agree with some of what you have said here, you started the thread asking for advantages and disadvantages of Brexit.

I would have hoped that those advantages and disadvantages could have been objectively assessed through supporting evidence as to why they are exactly that. For example Panavision asked for some sources with regards to a few of your initial points.

However I say the above in the past tense as it now appears as though you have decided to leave your own thread and any subsequent conversation after just a few posts.

Which seems a little odd and kneejerk to be honest, but you are of course free to do as you please :)
Just mentions Advantages in title ? We've done potential dissadvantages to death in the other threads.
 

VastGirth

Well-known Member
Nothing in the OP is correct or to be generous is a very distorted view of the truth. In many cases the opposite outcome will be true. E.g we will have less money to spend, it will be harder to control immigration, there is going to a hell of a lot MORE red tape, etc,.

The only advantage i can see is that trade deals can be tailored specifically to our economic needs rather than that of a whole continent. The counter point to this is that any trade deal we negotiate is going to be worse overall because we are in a far far weaker negotiating position.

If we were to start listing disadvantages then there would be hundreds of things.
 
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psikey

Distinguished Member
klaxhu, posted

It's still shocking that someone can seriously think that the EU is a dictatorship.


Even more shocking that when democracy does work, an element of the population cannot accept a vote when it doesn't go their way and makes it their mission to riddicule and pull down anyone or any article that supports that decision.

By all means vote again to join EU if its an option at the next GE.

Its not all about economic pro's/con's.
 
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VastGirth

Well-known Member
Understood. I can understand how you don't want to moderate content.
It's still shocking that someone can seriously think that the EU is a dictatorship.
Only someone who has never lived in one can say this. I should just put some people on ignore: all we get is a made-up ideas, never able to back anything up with facts and I fall into the trap :) It's my fault, really ...
[/QUOTE]

This is a key point in understanding the mentality of brexiteers. To them the EU is a prison from which the UK must escape, when in reality the EU is more like a house that the UK help build, and we are moving out to live in a tent in the garden.
 

mitch

Distinguished Member
klaxhu, posted

It's still shocking that someone can seriously think that the EU is a dictatorship.


Even more shocking that when democracy does work, an element of the population cannot accept a vote when it doesn't go their way and makes it their mission to riddicule and pull down anyone or any article that supports that decision.

By all means vote again to join EU if its an option at the next GE.

Its no all about economic pro's/con's.
When leave won i accepted the result but my mistake was to rather naively believe that a sensible deal would be struck that would minimise any disruption due to no longer being in the EU. Really I should have realised that we’ve got a bunch of rabid leavers in place who seem hell bent on causing as much disruption as possible as long as they get the hardest of hard Brexits which funnily enough didn’t seem to be mentioned by the vote leave campaign.
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
By my own admission i'm a glass half empty guy but the negativity of remainers is breathtaking.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
When leave won i accepted the result but my mistake was to rather naively believe that a sensible deal would be struck that would minimise any disruption due to no longer being in the EU. Really I should have realised that we’ve got a bunch of rabid leavers in place who seem hell bent on causing as much disruption as possible as long as they get the hardest of hard Brexits which funnily enough didn’t seem to be mentioned by the vote leave campaign.

I honestly expected EU to give nothing and them expect UK to just bend over. Nearly happened with May but thanks to Lab/Lib's we got to have the GE and the people rather than elitist politicians got to decide the direction.

If we had had referendum on the earlier important EU votes we may have still been in a trade focused EU rather than what its becoming (nipped it in the bud, too late now).

I was a acually 51/49 for staying in EU until I became interested in the Brexit vote and learned more about the EU and way its works.

As for your last line, its always been clear from beggining that No Deal is better than a Bad Deal.
 
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psikey

Distinguished Member
Looks like this has no way of staying as a thread just for listing benefits of leaving EU. Might as well close as being swamped by ProEU brigade again, unless Mod's can clear away the Off Thread comments ?
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
I would think it is on topic and relevant to discuss the numbered reasons. This might mean the list is agreed or is disagreed, with reasons why. This is why post 2 is allowed.

However, it would be incorrect to simply create a competing list of disadvantages. That would not really be a discussion of the first post, defeating the objective. So those members expressing a desire, above, to create a competing list of disadvantages, rather than to discuss the first post, should create their own thread please. That is decorum and the site is large enough to host multiple threads
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
I would think it is on topic and relevant to discuss the numbered reasons. This might mean the list is agreed or is disagreed, with reasons why. This is why post 2 is allowed.

However, it would be incorrect to simply create a competing list of disadvantages. That would not really be a discussion of the first post, defeating the objective. So those members expressing a desire, above, to create a competing list of disadvantages, rather than to discuss the first post, should create their own thread please. That is decorum and the site is large enough to host multiple threads
I was hoping this thread would be to just list peoples views on the positives as members negative views are splattered all through the other threads.

I appreciate some members will disagree with listed "positives" but all other threads are already just constant argument threads.

Anyway, your decision of course
 

VastGirth

Well-known Member
Looks like this has no way of staying as a thread just for listing benefits of leaving EU. Might as well close as being swamped by ProEU brigade again, unless Mod's can clear away the Off Thread comments ?


I'd love to hear some genuine advantages to leaving the EU. I've yet to hear any that are not demonstrably false or meaninglessly vague.
 

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