1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Adding Extra Speakers - What Do You Recommend?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Rick1486, Apr 22, 2005.

  1. Rick1486

    Rick1486
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    547
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi - I want to add an extra pair of speakers to the rear of my current 5.1 setup which is as follows;

    Mission 782se fronts.
    Mission 782c centre.
    Mission 782ds surrounds.
    REL Q400E subwoofer.
    Denon 2105 amp.
    Denon 2910 dvd.

    I'm thinking along the lines of another pair of Mission 782ds' but what do you lot think of that as an idea - or do you have any suggestions as to alternatives?
    I'll be checking the for sale ads as soon as the opinions are in.

    Many thanks
    Rick
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    Many people in your position would put your current rears to the side and have a pair of direct firing speakers ( preferably from the same range) as centre rears. That is assuming that you have sufficient space behind the seating position to house them satisfactorily
     
  3. Rick1486

    Rick1486
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    547
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks Ian - are you saying that you wouldn't recommend another set of 78ds' over whatever the direct firing ones might be?
    The trouble with placement is that the settee is in front of the front window with a radiator beneath the sill - would heat from the rad be a problem? Also, the 78ds' I currently have are on the wall either side of the window and so above and behind the seating position - I do though have some free wall space to either side of the settee and this was what I was thinking of using.
    I'd appreciate your thoughts/experience/opinion.

    Cheers
    Rick
     
  4. JBL 4645

    JBL 4645
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hallo there Rick. :hiya:

    I’ve done a bit of searching around at this late hour of 02:20hrs and may have a solution for you, now I guess you like mission now from the research that I have done on the mission M3ds at £137.96 and the frequency 75Hz to 20KHz 100watts 8 ohm not to good…now hold there…if you what a home cinema surround configuration that’s going to work…then try this on the richer sounds web page online buying I came across the mission M70s at £49.95 for the pair and the specifications are sensitivity 88dB frequency 68Hz to 20KHz power 75watts wow. :clap: :thumbsup:

    Now for 6x speakers for the surrounds at £149.85 that’s a deal if I ever saw one… :smashin:

    Place the surrounds in a U shape configuration two on the back wall spaced out evenly and for the side walls again spaced out evenly…

    So if you where to add 6x in the room all angled downwards to a centre position in the room…place two long lengths of cable conducting cut to size going down the side walls and one for the back wall and cut out a small piece of the plastic…this will be where the shorter run of cable conduct cable will run down to each of the six surround speakers… :thumbsup:

    Fixing the speakers into position and cutting the cable to length of run from the left output going to the back left surround speaker and connecting it to the + positive input…then cut another piece of cable cut to length, this will connect to the – negative output of the left surround speaker and take this to the left side and connect it to the + positive input then cut another shorter length connect it to the – negative output of the speaker and run it to the + positive input… :thumbsup:

    Now cut a longer length of cable coming form the – negative output of the loudspeaker and run to the – negative output from the AVR…sounds complicated this called Series wiring…now just repeat this for the other side of the surround chain. :thumbsup:

    This may take several hours to fix cable conducting wiring cable and fitting it to all the six speakers in the room. :thumbsup:

    And for sound alignment…you will have to re-set the whole thing run the internal pink noise and set the left surround speakers to 72dBc then the right surround speakers to 72dBc…set the front left centre and right each to 75dBc for each one in turn… :thumbsup:

    The sub bass to 85dBc…if you have a Dolby or dts set-up disc like I do use his as the pink noise on it is wideband ideal for calibration and alignment… :thumbsup:

    If you get stuck send a reply on this page good luck… :thumbsup:

    I have also put the link at the bottom of the page for richer sounds look for those missions…. :smashin:

    Ashley...

    http://ws3.richersounds.com/home.php
     
  5. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    The sort of advice that JBL is giving may be adequate for a room the size of a cinema,but will produce a very diffuse and unfocussed sound field in an average room,not to mention the problems of most receivers trying to deliver enough power into a series load such as he proposes.

    A far better result would be had by using your receiver and whichever speakers you may choose in the manner that both the manufacturers and Dolby/DTS intended.
     
  6. Rick1486

    Rick1486
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    547
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Many thanks lads and especially for the detailed reply JBL4645.

    Personally I wouldn't feel happy trying the "series" wiring and would prefer to just get hold of a pair of speakers and connect them directly to the inputs on the back of the 2105 marked for sbl and sbr.

    I've spoken with Overture (my local hifi dealer) this morning and asked about a price for a set of new Mission 78ds, but they've told me that they're discontinued now which surprised me as when the system was put in by them about 2 months ago, Overture told me that the 78ds was a new speaker line - anyway I considered some direct firers but they told me that in my room with where the settee is, I wouldn't get the full benefit from such a configuration and would be better off with dipoles.
    So it looks like the upshot is that I'll be looking for a pair of mint condition 78ds in beech asap.
    They also said that I would get more benefit from upgrading my amp, but money prohibits this at the moment.

    Any thoughts gang?

    Cheers
    Rick
     
  7. Ettepet

    Ettepet
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    738
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Ratings:
    +19
  8. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Not surprised that you wouldn't be happy with series wiring...most of us outside of cinemas wouldn't use it either.

    As to the advice given by your dealer....the argument of dipoles Vs direct has been going on for ages,and really comes down to what sounds best to you,in your own room....some of us prefer direct(as I do)and others like the more diffuse effect of dipoles.

    You will certainly get benefits from improving other areas of your system,if done carefully,with respect to getting the right sound,but that will always apply up until the point at which only marginal benefits can be gained.
    I would still argue that a good 5.1 system can be far better than an equivalently priced 7.1 system,given proper setup etc,so do be sure to try if at all possible,before buying,and maybe finding the sound quality gains arent what you'd expected.....it may also be worth just trying a better amp/receiver with your speakers,prior to any further decisions.
     
  9. JBL 4645

    JBL 4645
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes but how low in frequency range and max SPL level are the dipoles going to go at…you see if you go with six good high quality bookshelf loudspeakers and connect it up in the fashion I have laid out you will get a defused sound and it’s very doable and it’s not going to cost as much…did you look at the web page Richer sounds they had mission M70 S going for £49.85 for a pair get six and that’s only going to cost £149.85 buy a pair of diploes and they may cost £120.00 but you will be stuck with only two…the choice is up to you it’s your money your handing over to them…

    That’s all I say for that for now…
    :thumbsup:
     
  10. Rick1486

    Rick1486
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    547
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes but JBL why do I need 6 speakers when I already have 2 dipoles - are you talking about replacing these or adding the 6 to my existing setup in its' entirity?
    Alexs2 I'm sure you're right about upgrading the amp/receiver, but unfortunately I haven't got that sort of dosh atm, especially given the pretty poor resale value of "secondhand" kit - even that which like mine is only 2 months old and pristine, so that will have to wait (and bring with it the inherent new manufacturers' models which are always so tempting).

    I've used an spl meter to set the system up - I think I did it properly lol.

    Cheers
    Rick
     
  11. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Basically,as you've surmised,you don't need 6 extra speakers,and in most ordinary sized rooms,this would simply make the sound rather diffuse and unfocussed.

    I'd stick with your receiver,and make use of the Auto Setup facility if you havent already,as this sort of thing really can clean up the sound overall,by correcting a lot of the worst room/speaker interactions.
     
  12. Rick1486

    Rick1486
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    547
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for that mate - I'm leaning towards a set of secondhand 78ds in my local shop @£130 atm, although I do have a wanted ad in the forums as well which is generating some interest, so I hope that something positive will come of this - I'll stick them on my two side walls either side of the settee and rerun the auto setup and see how I get on. Once again many thanks.
    Cheers
    Rick
     

Share This Page

Loading...