Add MA silver 300 or upgrade all to Arendal 1723s

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I’d just get the C350, it’s an epic centre in my opinion and also is a three way design with the tweeter higher than most centres, with an extra mid-range cone.

@Tu12tle - I agree with this. Fwiw, I originally had my C350 paired with some 6th Gen Silver 100's (Also epic speakers imo). So much so, that when I got an irresistible offer on a new set of 6g 300's, I moved the 100's to the bedroom!

Having the matching 3 way driver set up across the LCR was a huge upgrade in sound imo. In truth the bass on the 100's is better vs the 300's*

But - I'm running dual subs in my setup - so bass is not an issue. (Maybe use the difference in price vs the Arendals to add a 2nd sub?)

The deciding factor for me was matching centre 3 way driver on the L&R speakers. That extra dedicated midrange driver really helps with vocal (clarity etc). Especially when audio pans left to right.... I feel my front stage audio has opened up as a result of the LCR pairing. On current price I think it's a phenomenal front stage, that's hard to beat imo.

*MA have done some serious witchcraft with the bass response of the 100's. Never heard such fast, tight bass from bookshelf speakers.
 

Tu12tle

Active Member
@Tu12tle - I agree with this. Fwiw, I originally had my C350 paired with some 6th Gen Silver 100's (Also epic speakers imo). So much so, that when I got an irresistible offer on a new set of 6g 300's, I moved the 100's to the bedroom!

Having the matching 3 way driver set up across the LCR was a huge upgrade in sound imo. In truth the bass on the 100's is better vs the 300's*

But - I'm running dual subs in my setup - so bass is not an issue. (Maybe use the difference in price vs the Arendals to add a 2nd sub?)

The deciding factor for me was matching centre 3 way driver on the L&R speakers. That extra dedicated midrange driver really helps with vocal (clarity etc). Especially when audio pans left to right.... I feel my front stage audio has opened up as a result of the LCR pairing. On current price I think it's a phenomenal front stage, that's hard to beat imo.

*MA have done some serious witchcraft with the bass response of the 100's. Never heard such fast, tight bass from bookshelf speakers.
See I think that’s what I’m after when going in to a dedicated room that great front stage. And if I can do that with keeping most of my speakers and moving them to other duties then great.

I do like the bookshelf silvers I have that I use as L and R at the moment think they are very good for smaller speakers.

Looks like I’m going hunting for a c350 then. Unfortunately seems like everywhere has sold the extra stock they had and the new gen only makes a 250 which is smaller.
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
Looks like I’m going hunting for a c350 then. Unfortunately seems like everywhere has sold the extra stock they had and the new gen only makes a 250 which is smaller.

What finish are you after? I'll have a look about.

Honestly, you'll not be disappointed, it really is exceptional, it's a beast though, we especially in height. It's Ideal if you can get it on top of a unit rather than inside. I've done both, not a huge difference as it's not ported, but it is better with space.
 

Tu12tle

Active Member
What finish are you after? I'll have a look about.

Honestly, you'll not be disappointed, it really is exceptional, it's a beast though, we especially in height. It's Ideal if you can get it on top of a unit rather than inside. I've done both, not a huge difference as it's not ported, but it is better with space.
Thanks mate. Very kind of you. Would be ideally walnut colour for waf as I believe my current ones are walnut, but cause it will eventually be going behind an AT screen it doesn’t really matter lol.

I know it’s pretty big so when I hung my tv I made sure there would be space underneath for the 350 to sit were I to upgrade lol.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks mate. Very kind of you. Would be ideally walnut colour for waf as I believe my current ones are walnut, but cause it will eventually be going behind an AT screen it doesn’t really matter lol.

I know it’s pretty big so when I hung my tv I made sure there would be space underneath for the 350 to sit were I to upgrade lol.
Here's one - It's £575 - but ring them for a discount as that's full RRP.


It's listed as in stock too, so 🤞
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
It's such a shame that MA have dropped the C350 from the range, B&W did the same thing with their 600 series a while ago and dropped the larger 6.5" driver centre. I guess the vast majority of people must be prepared to trade SQ and dynamics for less capable smaller form speakers.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
It's such a shame that MA have dropped the C350 from the range, B&W did the same thing with their 600 series a while ago and dropped the larger 6.5" driver centre. I guess the vast majority of people must be prepared to trade SQ and dynamics for less capable smaller form speakers.
Although I'm led to believe that (in MA's case at least), they have achieved more witchcraft with the SQ quality of the smaller C250 (still 3 way driver), so that it's very similar to its now discontinued larger sibling.

This wouldn't be at all surprising - given my earlier comments re bass in their silver 100's.

Edit: I'll caveat the above comment with the fact that I've not actually confirmed this with a side by side listening comparison
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
It's more a question of dynamic range capability because, if you want to play loudly cleanly, there really is no replacement for displacement. Smaller drivers simply reach their excursion limits earlier.

This is the reason all THX Ultra rated LCR speakers use at least twin 6.5" woofers to handle the bass and have at least 89dB sensitivity. Anthony Grimani labours this point in this recent article and says you need at least this amount of cone area to support an 80Hz crossover otherwise you should raise it. He's probably talking about reference capable systems though so if you're listening < -10dB you're probably fine with twin 5.25" woofers.

 
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Tu12tle

Active Member
Here's one - It's £575 - but ring them for a discount as that's full RRP.


It's listed as in stock too, so 🤞
Thanks I saw they have one for full price. Probably right and worth giving them a ring and see what price they will do. Otherwise for that Money makes more sense to buy 2 pairs of 300s and try and sell the spare.
Although I'm led to believe that (in MA's case at least), they have achieved more witchcraft with the SQ quality of the smaller C250 (still 3 way driver), so that it's very similar to its now discontinued larger sibling.

This wouldn't be at all surprising - given my earlier comments re bass in their silver 100's.

Edit: I'll caveat the above comment with the fact that I've not actually confirmed this with a side by side listening comparison
Yeah I’m sure they still sound great but would rather get the bigger 350 if possible then can have matching driver size too.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Otherwise for that Money makes more sense to buy 2 pairs of 300s and try and sell the spare.
If they all end up going behind an AT screen that would IMO be by far the best option for you anyway.

The Silver 300 internally crosses its woofers to the mid at 570Hz so the dialogue (which is all <250Hz) will be coming out of those twin 6" woofers. You just need to find someone to do the same as you so you can share a pair. You can ask but I'm pretty sure dealers won't split them as they have to buy them in pairs themselves.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Yeah I’m sure they still sound great but would rather get the bigger 350 if possible then can have matching driver size too.
Agreed. But another option might be to get the new 7g 300's & 7g C250 for the LCR.. The surrounds don't have to be an exact match for the LCR.

Sevenoaks has the following 7g LCR on clearance:
300's

C250

but they are gloss black.

P.S your idea of 2 pairs of 300's 6g is a cracking option, but I always try to give alternatives. 😊😉
 

Tu12tle

Active Member
If they all end up going behind an AT screen that would IMO be by far the best option for you anyway.

The Silver 300 internally crosses its woofers to the mid at 570Hz so the dialogue (which is all <250Hz) will be coming out of those twin 6" woofers. You just need to find someone to do the same as you so you can share a pair. You can ask but I'm pretty sure dealers won't split them as they have to buy them in pairs themselves.
Yeah realise the matching 3 would be the best solution. And if the price is going to be similar than seems like a no brainier. Just the logistics of buying a single one. Might be a good idea to put a post out and see if anyone wants to split a pair of 300s lol.

Agreed. But another option might be to get the new 7g 300's & 7g C250 for the LCR.. The surrounds don't have to be an exact match for the LCR.

Sevenoaks has the following 7g LCR on clearance:
300's

C250

but they are gloss black.

P.S your idea of 2 pairs of 300's 6g is a cracking option, but I always try to give alternatives. 😊😉
Yeah I’m not as fussed about the surrounds being the matching gen just the LCR.
Thanks for the links looks like a good price on them so worth a think. But £700 a pair for the 6g is really tempting me at the moment.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks for the links looks like a good price on them so worth a think. But £700 a pair for the 6g is really tempting me at the moment.
Yep that certainly a cracking price tbf
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member

Tu12tle

Active Member

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
It's such a shame that MA have dropped the C350 from the range, B&W did the same thing with their 600 series a while ago and dropped the larger 6.5" driver centre. I guess the vast majority of people must be prepared to trade SQ and dynamics for less capable smaller form speakers.

At least MA kept the superior 3-way design. They also mention 200w rms power handling (80-200w amp recommended) same as for C350 and the design while looking fairly similar is completely new including new drivers first time with RDT II tech from Gold serie, new crossover design and new waveguide. The new C250 is still good bit larger than the smaller 6G C150 which also had dual 5,25" (2,5-way) and that one had 150w power handling (60-150w amp recommendation). You have to jump to Gold C250 to get dual 6,5"s. And Platinum II to get dual 8"s for centres.

Quite many manufacturers have moved from two centre option to one more compact. I have to dig some old emails, but i remember some companies have said they now use larger magnets on drivers (beefier drivers) to be able to keep up with the large mains. The width and height of C350 is very close to Arendal 1723 S Centre so i`m not that suprised they had to downsize it little cause if you think it´s quite massive jump from the small HTM6 type you have for a typical living room cinema. To show it better here is Bronze Centre and C350 side by side. While it could fit, there is also the WAF thing many has to battle. @StefanBFC had to keep the centre (white one below) first inside of unit and later thankfully got new av-unit without hole for speaker.



img_20210409_111426-jpg.1491417


img_20210405_180343-jpg.1489306
 
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Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
At least MA kept the superior 3-way design.
Yes, that's good and a real plus point for the C350 over the Arendals being discussed here. In fact it's what I like least about the Arendal centres - 2-way MTM designs with tweeters in line with the mid-woofers. That's a recipe for off-axis lobing that most manufacturers addressed 20 years ago by switching to 2.5-ways, 3-ways or (if sticking with 2-ways) moving the tweeter above the line of the mid-woofers. I suspect it's because the Arendal centres are simply their Monitor versions turned on their sides with a different grill which saved them development costs. For this reason, if I ever go Arendal I'd run three Monitors for the LCRs and skip the centre version. At least when dropping the 600 series' 3-way centre B&W put the HTM6's tweeter above the the line of the mid-woofers.

Here's a comparison photo to add your extensive collection. The 2-way HTM6 from my living room sitting on top of the 2.5-way LCR600 S3 that's in my cinema room.

1652892045408.jpeg
 

Tu12tle

Active Member
yeah that’s one thing that surprised me with the Arendal centre speaker. Would run 3 monitors if I went to them. Thinking the MA silvers are the way to go for bang for buck at the current price. Maybe down the road once all my other pieces are in it may be an upgrade there lol
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yes, that's good and a real plus point for the C350 over the Arendals being discussed here. In fact it's what I like least about the Arendal centres - 2-way MTM designs with tweeters in line with the mid-woofers. That's a recipe for off-axis lobing that most manufacturers addressed 20 years ago by switching to 2.5-ways, 3-ways or (if sticking with 2-ways) moving the tweeter above the line of the mid-woofers. I suspect it's because the Arendal centres are simply their Monitor versions turned on their sides with a different grill which saved them development costs. For this reason, if I ever go Arendal I'd run three Monitors for the LCRs and skip the centre version. At least when dropping the 600 series' 3-way centre B&W put the HTM6's tweeter above the the line of the mid-woofers.

Here's a comparison photo to add your extensive collection. The 2-way HTM6 from my living room sitting on top of the 2.5-way LCR600 S3 that's in my cinema room.

View attachment 1698169

I think the Arendal chap said that 3-way centre might be in cards later when someone asked, but my guess would be that comes with the "refreshed" 1723 range later in future.

The smaller Silver C150 is 2,5-way so the designers at least have put some thought for it as the older Silver centres were always 2-way MTM.

The system has been designed electrically to be a two-and-a-half way configuration, which provides better dispersion and elimination of the central ‘dead spot’ exhibited in the typical mid-tweeter-mid (MTM) configurations.

2-way MTM B&W CM Centre measurements horizontally vs. vertically below if you are intrested. Much better vertically no suprise. Shame this didn´t have the raised tweeter which came with next gen. (CM 2).



Does the new HTM6 sound slightly better than the old one, but perhaps lacking dynamics to that old bigger one?
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Does the new HTM6 sound slightly better than the old one, but perhaps lacking dynamics to that old bigger one?

The LCR600 S3 has only ever been used in a dedicated cinema room. That HTM6 replaced an HTM62 (which I repurposed as a single back speaker) in my living room system about a year ago. The HTM6 wipes the floor with HTM62 in every way but ultimately lacks the dynamic punch of the larger LCR600 although I’d say its detail is stronger.

I know many say they find the latest 600 series too bright sounding but for me the highs of the HTM6 (and 606/607) are their strongest points. IMO their subtle detail/transparency on music is simply stunning. For me the 606 is the best of that bunch though, it’s just so effortless and refined sounding on music with its larger 6.5” drivers. A few months ago I actually emailed B&W asking them to consider reintroducing a larger 600 series centre based on the 606‘s 6.5” drivers - got a very nice reply thanking me and that they’d forwarded the suggestion to their development team. We can live in hope!
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The LCR600 S3 has only ever been used in a dedicated cinema room. That HTM6 replaced an HTM61 (which I repurposed as a single back speaker) in my living room system about a year ago. The HTM6 wipes the floor with HTM61 in every way but ultimately lacks the dynamic punch of the larger LCR600 although I’d say its detail is stronger.

I know many say they find the latest 600 series too bright sounding but for me the highs of the HTM6 (and 606/607) are their strongest points. IMO their subtle detail/transparency on music is simply stunning. For me the 606 is the best of that bunch though, it’s just so effortless and refined sounding on music with its larger 6.5” drivers. A few months ago I actually emailed B&W asking them to consider reintroducing a larger 600 series centre based on the 606‘s 6.5” drivers - got a very nice reply thanking me and that they’d forwarded the suggestion to their development team. We can live in hope!

When that specific B&W 600 range came and i noticed the 3-way was gone i got disappointed and sent email them too. I would be suprised if it would come back, it clearly lacked sales. Kef brought Q650c for Q latest range as only centre (6,5" drivers with big cab) few years ago, but while true HT hobbyist loved it many "normal folks" couldn´t handle the size of it so Kef had to brought smaller Q250c. It was bold move to bring just one big centre, but clearly back fired. If i had to guess the next Q range probably doesn´t have the large one anymore same as R range, but we will see. It`s shame, but it feels many company is going this route. 😢

I talked with well known speaker designer last year about these 2-way MTMs. I will send it for you via PM. Intresting stuff to hear from the top guy.

Would be intresting what you would think of the 700 S2 range. Natural upgrade route for you if you like the current B&Ws. The HTM71 S2 looks very nice and seem to have the same bright signature sound as mentioned by @martin 39 who got one used for very good price and after running setup i think he replied to me with words wow unbeleavable! :laugh: He had the old small Silver Centre earlier. If you think the price jump to 800 range it feels the 700 could be the sweet spot for long term while getting the big 3-way centre.
 

martin 39

Well-known Member
Yes i have that centre i was lucky to find one on gumtree for around £500 in perfect condition. I have mine with a pair of old cm7 i picked up for £200 sounds great to me. Will get 704 or 703 at some point but no rush
 

Tu12tle

Active Member
@StefanBFC I’m still torn between sensible sticking with my silvers and adding a 350 and the what if of the 1723s. I just had one extra question that I’ve been thinking about and it comes from something you said about hearing your mates Arendals. You said they sounded better at higher volumes. Does that mean you didn’t really notice the difference between your silvers and his 1723s until you got up to reference level?
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
@StefanBFC I’m still torn between sensible sticking with my silvers and adding a 350 and the what if of the 1723s. I just had one extra question that I’ve been thinking about and it comes from something you said about hearing your mates Arendals. You said they sounded better at higher volumes. Does that mean you didn’t really notice the difference between your silvers and his 1723s until you got up to reference level?

Yeah I did notice the difference at lower levels, but not as much though, they were still better especially the centre. It was just when they were cranked up, they really came alive.
 

Tu12tle

Active Member
Yeah I did notice the difference at lower levels, but not as much though, they were still better especially the centre. It was just when they were cranked up, they really came alive.
Thanks for clarifying. Was just unsure as I know I probably won’t get all the way up to reference that often so wanted to know if there was still an audible difference lower down. Ah decisions decisions.
 

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