Active or passive? Multiroom?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by rodnt, Jun 24, 2017.


    1. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Hey guys,

      I've been spending a couple of days reading now and I feel like I'm banging my head in a wall over and over...

      I'm upgrading, but I cannot choose system type! Which means I cannot compare speakers.. yet..

      My needs/wishes in list of priority:
      1. Sound quality in a 20 m2 room. Source is podcasts/Spotify from iphone, sometimes mp3 from macbook pro. Mostly house music, but just about all styles are played every now and then. Volume doesn't necessarily need to be that high.
      2. Simplicity. Since the source is wireless this is obviously important. I usually use airplay with ATV (old version), but it doesn't always work. I need a system that works. Period.
      3. Possibility to play the same music in the kitchen. Sound quality doesn't need to be as good, but ok. If an app can control volume in both rooms that'd be great. I heard about chromecast audio, don't know if thats the solution? Or do I need to buy speakers from the same series?
      4. Movies/TV - Surround is nice but no requirement. Could always complement the system later.
      5. Discret design. If desktop speakers like the Egg + a sub are enough, great. If bookshelf speakers like Dynaudio Emit M20 are needed - fine. If floorstanders like Dali Zensor 5 AX is the answer.. Well ok then, would have preferred smaller but sound quality is more important.

      Budget is flexible, but I'm hoping to stay below 1,000€. 500-700 would be great.

      The first question is if I should search for active or passive speakers. Found a pair or relatively cheap active ones in Yamaha NX-N500, or System Audio Saxo 5. Or if I feel rich; Dynaudio Neo 2. Or should I go for Dali Zensor 3/MA Bronze 2 and an amplifier? Or go all-in Sonos? Is the sound quality on par with the other options?

      For the kitchen I'm thinking I'll choose that once the main system is up.

      Please help me become less confused, anything helps :)
       
      Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    2. muljao

      muljao
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      The apple system is a bit foreign to me, but cca is not.

      You don't say what amp you have, but say you spend 1000 in your main room, you could get a pair of Sonos play 5s, this might just be outside your budget. One play 5 sounds good, a pair set up for stereo are supposedly great (I haven't properly heard this set up). These sonos play all music on streaming or on your mac.

      Another option could be a Raumfeld Connector (circa 150 euros). I am assuming you have a decent wifi connection. Add this to your existing amp and you have a wifi/dnla amp that talks to your wifi and phone that is apple friendly.

      I think your own suggestion of the Yamaha nx-n500 is probably the most sensible. If you set this up in your main room you basically have everything you need. For your smaller room you then just need to find a suitable set up that is also compatable with yamaha musicast. There is a device
      Yamaha WXAD-10 MusicCast Adapter Review
      that allows any system that has an input to become compatable, so then decide if the harmon is enough, plug this into it and you have 2 musicast setups

      As for CCA-if spotify was sufficient these would do the trick, just buy 2 , and put them wherever in the house, but they are not that apple friendly so would leave you wanting elsewhere
       
    3. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Now we're starting to get somewhere. Thank you. I think a pair of Sonos 5's in the living room, and a pair of 1's in the kitchen would work budget wise since I don't have to buy everything at once.

      The negative with the sonos is that they are quite expensive, but still not hi fi. The Yamaha's works too. Or a pair of nice passive ones connected to a decent amp and then sonos connect/chromecast/other(raumfeld?). I have a fibre wifi connection so I'm planning on using that, not Bluetooth
       
      Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    4. muljao

      muljao
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      Hifi is a loaded word. Sonos is no doubt hifi. The sound quality is excellent with them. There are some things about hi-res music that they don't support, but they support above cd quality. You are correct though, Sonos are expensive. There is a thread in a different forum about a guy who went from a multi-thousand euro set up to a pair of play5s and he thinks it's the best move he has ever done with his hifi

      Say you go the Raumfeld connector or sonos connect(not the connect amp) route. You the have a music hub, both of these are preamps, which lend themselves to working well with active speakers as suggested above. These units could of course also be plugged into a regular amp with passive speakers.

      An example of a good (active)stereo set up might be - Sonos Connect/ JBL305lsr / good speakers stands-approx 800 euro, dont underestimate speaker stands
      Maybe a passive- sonos connect amp- monitor audio bronze 2- speaker stands- 900 euro
       
    5. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Thanks a lot. Feels like I'm finally making progress here!

      I'll build three alternatives and compare prices and pros cons. But I'll definitely read up on sonos sound quality. If it's as good as a "regular" Hifi bookshelf system (as long as the source is no higher than Spotify quality), then that's definitely a contender.

      Trying to think future proof as well. Airplay2 is coming and surely more. If the hardware doesn't need to be replaced that's a huge advantage
       
    6. muljao

      muljao
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      The thing is there are loads of good options. If the sonos setup suits, it certainly is simple and tidy

      Revolution is complete
       
    7. muljao

      muljao
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      I'd hate to buy these knowing apple probably have them so bogged down that they'll likely only ever work with their own product range. Having said that apple products are usually of pretty high standards
       
    8. muljao

      muljao
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      Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    9. rodnt

      rodnt
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      I've never tried Apple Music, but if Homepod works with other sources, is priced like sonos and has better sound quality; sure!

      I have an old Sony 820 DTS (Sony STR-DG820 review) and a pair of budget floorstanders. Coupled with an Apple TV it works decent. But not good enough, not good enough sound quality and too bulky.

      Honestly, sonos is tempting. I just don't want to spend $1000+ and always wonder if a bookshelf system would have sounded significantly better. Say for example sonos connect amp with MA Bronze 2, or in the next tier; Dynaudio Neo2/4
       
    10. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      If you want to fill a large room on your budget then I'd go for these.

      Tremendous sound quality and they'll fill a castle.

      Adam A7X

      Close to your max' budget I know, but for main music it's worth spending if you can afford to.
       
    11. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      Sorry. Didn't see the dollar sign?

      Are you in the US?
       
    12. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      If you want genuine, serious sound quality on a budget I'd always recommend the active route.
       
    13. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Hey, no I'm in Sweden. Just found this forum and thought it looked good :)
      Thomann is in Germany and I've bought stuff from them before. I do like that pricing (similar to the Yamaha NX-N500)
       
    14. muljao

      muljao
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      Just know the price you see on thomann for speakers is per speaker, not per pair
       
    15. rodnt

      rodnt
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      oh, that price is per speaker. And they're studio monitors which according to reviews seems to be quite revealing. Hence likely not the best choice for me since I'm not playing any high res (only spotify/podcaster/mp3's).

      If going active I'm leaning towards System Audio Saxo 5, Yamaha NX-N500 or if I feel rich; Dynaudio Neo 2. It's a small room (20 m2) and I rarely (never) play loud, so I don't think I need bigger.
       
    16. muljao

      muljao
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      Why not try this risk free

      Raumfeld connector- 8 weeks trial period, no questions asked return -approx 150 euro

      Mackie MR6 mk 3- approx 300 euro- 30 day return policy- gear4music and Thomann.

      This gives you an idea and if you don't like them, box up and ship back

      My thoughts are you'll keep the Raumfeld once you try it. I love the Mackies but different people different thoughts.

      If the setup works for you, you can worry about the second room then
       
    17. BlueWizard

      BlueWizard
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      In the old days, though still when Streaming was available, you would have one multi-channel distribution amp and something like a single Sonos Stream. That's fine if you want the same music in every room. But that's not how a typical family lives or listens to music.

      Today, you want each room with the ability to act independently.

      Then, your budget is too low for a multi-room system.

      Ideally, you want they same service through out your house. In short, if you pick SONOS, then to the extent possible and reasonable, go with Sonos everywhere.

      It sounds like you have one Primary Room with the potential for music in a second room (Kitchen). I would be inclined to treat those two as separate issues, and concentrate on the Primary room.

      You want Streaming ability, sound sufficient for movies, good music, and ease of use.

      My suggestion would be to start with the Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver (£380 for multiple sources) which has 80w/ch, Network Streaming from local storage and from the Internet, 2xOptical In, 2xCoaxial In, 1xUSB-Media In, Bluetooth Streaming, Phono In, Sub-Out, etc....

      Yamaha RN602 Networked Stereo Receiver - Superfi

      From a budget of about £700, that leaves you with a remaining budget of about £320, which is more than enough to get a good pair of Bookshelf Speakers.

      Wharfedale Diamond 225 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Tannoy Mercury 7.2 Speakers - Superfi

      Monitor Audio Bronze 2 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Dali Zensor 3 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      From a £1000, it leaves you with £620 for speakers, which is enough for some nice Floorstanding Speakers.

      KEF Q500 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      KEF Q700 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Wharfedale Diamond 240 Floor Standing Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Big discount on the Diamond 240, and I've seen them at other dealers for this same price.

      Tannoy Mercury 7.4 Speakers - Superfi

      Dali Zensor 5 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Monitor Audio Bronze 5 Floorstanding Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Q Acoustics 3050 Speakers (Pair) - Superfi

      Some of these are 5" (130mm) and some are 6.5" (165mm), which you choose will depend on the size of your room and your listening distance.

      Can you give us the Actual Dimension of your Prime Room, and where the system will be placed in that room?

      Next, where is the kitchen in proximity to the prime listening area?


      If we treat the kitchen as completely separate, is there a place in the kitchen to put speakers and possibly an Amp?

      For the most simply and basic Kitchen setup, a pair of good Active Bookshelf Speakers plus something like the Google Chromecast-Audio, you can have everything you need for a very reasonable price. The Chromecast is only £30 and would be controlled with an App on your Smart Phone or other Smart Device.

      For Speakers - Chromecast - Google

      There is also a Chromecast ULTRA for £70-

      Chromecast Ultra - Chromecast - Google

      As for speakers, for this, it depends on how far you want to take it.

      The Edifier R1700BT are active speakers with 66w/ch amps, and has Bluetooth capability which would allow you to Stream music directly from a Smart Device, and when connected to something like the Chromecast, would allow streaming from the Internet.

      Total cost for this would be about £160 -

      Edifier R1700BT loudspeaker - loudspeakers (Tabletop/bookshelf, Studio, Built-in, 2-way, 60 - 20000 Hz, Black, Wood): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

      Notice these Speakers also have a Remote Control, which I think you will find handy.

      If you have a TV in the Kitchen, then these Edifier R2000DB speakers have Optical Digital Inputs as well as Remote and Bluetooth -

      EDIFIER R2000DB Home Audio Speakers: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

      Though for a considerable £232, there are probably a few other speakers you could consider.

      Most of the Active speakers that have been suggested, while very good studio monitors, do NOT have Bluetooth or a Remote Control.

      To the best I can interpret the requirements, this seems the best solution. Depending on requirement, it is possible to hit your desired budget pretty closely, and you can very easily accomplish two rooms with Streaming for £1000.

      But then ... that's just my opinion.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
      Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    18. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      Excellent idea.

      And don't worry too much about reviews and words like 'revealing'.

      Actives are simply speakers with amplifiers tailored for each drive unit. That makes them controlled, accurate and have plenty of headroom.

      And all music benefits from those attributes, whether it's MP3, lossless rips or "high resolution" downloads.

      As an example. My current set up is a pair of near three grand active Adams and a thousand quid processor. And about half my listening is Spotify. It sounds superb, as do my lossless apple files through iTunes.

      Decent actives are worth a good long listen.
       
    19. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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    20. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Like BlueWizard I would split your requirement between the Amp/Speaker system for your Living room plus networked audio players to play in as many Zones as you would like to include in the system.

      SONOS - I'd use every time. A CONNECT in the Living room (as a source into your choice of Amp/Speakers) and then any number of PLAY:1, PLAY:3 or PLAY:5 in your other rooms, you can add Zone Players with ease as the budget/requirement dictates.

      Living room - where possible try out any Amp/Speakers you are considering in your room to determine if they 'work' for you in your room.

      I would be temped to add the SONOS CONNECT to your current Amp/Speakers and see how you get on and then decide if you need to change out the Amp and or Speakers.

      Joe
       
    21. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Yeah, but I don't have to buy everything at once. Ideally, I'd spend somewhere around 500€ now, and then add stuff later.

      Thanks, been looking at some of those speakers previously. But are they really better than active speakers? For example Dali Zensor 5 AX, System Audio Saxo 5, Yamaha NX-N500 etc. And are they better than 2x Sonos Play 5? For TV-sound I don't care at all right now. Could by a cheap soundbar and be happy I think.

      Prime room is roughly 6 x 3,5m, and the speakers will be on one of the shorter walls. But it will hopefully not be too long (2-3 years) until we move to a bigger house, so rather slightly too big than "just enough" for this room.
      In the kitchen, speaker(s) will go in ceiling level (top shelf). The way I see it; two Sonos Play 1 would be ideal, but I could settle for an Audio Pro Addon T3 as well.

      No TV in the kitchen, and the only source I need is my phone. I'm thinking bluetooth is fine, but if I want to be able to play the same music in both rooms (which surely will be multiple rooms in the future), I need some way of connecting them.

      I really like the Sonos Concept; Simple to control from your phone, possibility to add speakers over time, could even build a 5.1 system with it. And everything is in good quality as well. The 100 million-dollar question is how good? Will a pair of £700 active stereo speakers outshine a pair of Sonos Play:5? (design denoted).. Will a pair of £400 speakers outshine a single Play:5?
       
    22. muljao

      muljao
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      The terminology is deceiving. A play 5 is an powered speaker with a DAC/ WiFi module. An active has some kind of special crossover technology. Both do the same thing, play music. The only person who can tell which sounds better is yourself.

      I'd be willing to bet that in a side by side comparison you'd pick one over the other, but either set up would likely sound great. It's probably down to convenience and great sound, Vs wires and a little bit better sound
       
    23. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Yeah, planning on visiting a store in the city late this week or next to listen to a couple of the active speakers I've been checking out. They don't have Sonos though so can't compare.. Which seems to be my key question right now.
       
    24. BlueWizard

      BlueWizard
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      The most economical thing to do is to get an Amp with Streaming built in. The SONOS:Connect alone is about £300. But for £380, you get a full featured amp with Streaming Capability and High Resolution DACs. Baring in mind, that a stand alone DAC is going to fun £150 to £300.

      However, as Streaming Devices go, SONOS are both high quality and have the lowest price considering what you get. The Play:1, Play:2, and Play:3 are stand alone devices with Amps, Speaker, and Wired and Wireless Streaming built into one unit.

      Wireless Stereo Components | Sonos

      Wireless Speakers | Sonos

      But, in the UK, the Sono:Connect Streamer costs about £340 -

      SONOS CONNECT Smart Wireless Stereo Adaptor: Amazon.co.uk: Hi-Fi & Speakers

      Where as something like the Bluesound NODE-2 cost closer to £500 -

      Bluesound NODE 2 - digital media players (Digital, 802.11b, 802.11g, 802.11n, AC, LAN (RJ-45), RCA, TOSLINK Digital Optical, Black, Cortex-A9, 0 - 40 °C): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

      And a reminder that the Yamaha RN602 with Streaming and DAC costs £380.

      Yamaha RN602 Networked Stereo Receiver - Superfi

      Here are full specs on the Yamaha RN602 -

      R-N602 - Overview

      Active speakers can do a very good job, but you have to understand what you are getting. These tend to be Single Purpose speakers. That is, they typically have a single input, and they typically do NOT have a Remote Controls. So in a Music or Home Theater system, they need some type of generally expensive Pre-Amp to expand the number of inputs and give you remote control of the volume. Off the top of my head, the only Pre-Amps I can think of tend to run about £800.

      There is perhaps one small exception, the Yamaha WXC-50 Pre-Amp with Streaming -

      Yamaha MusicCast WXC50 Wireless Streaming Pre-Amplifier: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

      But even it has a limited number of inputs -

      WXC-50 - Overview

      Aside from The Network Connection, it has precisely ONE additional analog (RCA) input. However, for people who have limited needs, and want streaming, this has potential. It does have USB-In and an Optical In, as well as the single RCA Inputs. So, you could connect to the TV, Plus one additional Analog source, and to your Computer Network, but it is £289 on its own. Add £300/pr for good active speakers, and you are nearly at £600. Keep in mind, I'm quoting POUNDS (GBP) not Euros.

      If you want active speakers at a low price, they the Edifier R2000DB are worth considering. They have Optical Digital and Analog Inputs, Bluetooth, and a Remote Control. They also have pretty powerful amps.

      EDIFIER EDFR2000DB Home Audio Speakers: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

      There is one other Receiver with Network Streaming built in, the Pioneer SX-N30 and the SX-N30DAB. Specs very similar to the Yamaha RN602 -

      Pioneer SXN30 Network Receiver - Superfi

      Pioneer SXN30DAB Network Receiver - Superfi

      That's your choice, but I think ONE big Sonos Play would be better than two small ones, especially in the kitchen.

      The Sonos are stand alone units, so technically you only need one. But, unless I am mistaken, you can pair or sync them so two speaker units act as a Stereo.

      In the UK, the Play:1 = £185, the Play:3 = £270, and the Play:5 = £460.

      On the Sonos Website, the question was asked, which is better, TWO Play:1 or ONE Play:5? Sonos said 1 Play:5 is better, more and larger speakers with deeper bass.


      Within reason, it is best to have the same brand through out the house if you want to get them to work together. A Sonos:Connect on you main system, and one of the Sonos:play in the Kitchen and other rooms will assure that all the system can work both together and independently.

      But don't spend a fortune on something you will rarely use. How often will you really need the same music playing in every room? Chance are you son in his bedroom wants different music than you wife in the kitchen, and yourself in the main room. That probably represents how the system will most often be used.

      There is a Sonos:Connect:Amp that has a decent amp built in. You could use this in the lounge on the main system. The Sonos:Connect:Amp does have an additional set of Analog Inputs, but it is meant to be a streaming device, so the Network connection is the main input.

      That means if you intend to use this with your TV for TV/Movies, then you will need an additional DAC (digital to analog converter). Today most TVs only have Digital Output. These can cost anything from £25 up to £500 and more.

      The Sonos:Connect:Amp cost about £490 -

      SONOS CONNECT:AMP Smart Wireless Stereo Adaptor: Amazon.co.uk: Hi-Fi & Speakers

      To that you would need to add a pair of standard Passive Speakers which would bring the cost to about £750.

      Or for about £530 you could have the Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver with DAC and a decent pair of Passive Bookshelf Speakers.

      If you have an existing main stereo system, and you want to upgrade incrementally, then adding Sonos Connect to the existing system, and later adding the Sonos Play in the kitchen and other rooms as needed, would probably be the best choice.

      However, if you are starting with essentially nothing, then the Yamaha RN602 plus speakers, and a separate independent system in the kitchen is the best choice for limited money.

      Keep in mind I don't know the prices where you will be buying. They may be sufficiently different to skew the choices in a different direction.

      And lastly, I can't tell you want to do, I can only tell you what can be done, the final choice is your decision to make.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
      Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    25. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      You haven't indicated the layout of your Living Room - that will likely guide you to the type of speakers to consider.

      I imagine many of the 'active' speaker options within your budget are going to work well if you are sitting close to them - as you would in a 'studio' type setup.

      Not convinced I'd use a pair of PLAY:1, 3 or 5 as my 'main' speaker system - great for bringing music into rooms around the house but not my main system.

      If your Living Room system is to cater for the Optical Out of your TV it would be good if your Amp has a User adjustable Digital Audio delay to ensure you have the ability to keep Video and Audio in sync.

      Yamaha MusicCast is a good option to SONOS - you could use the Networked Amp BlueWizzard suggests and add in MusicCast streamers (similar to SONOS PLAY devices) in other Zones.

      Joe
       
    26. rodnt

      rodnt
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      Sorry I don't quite understand you. Except for the wireless inputs the SA Saxo 5 has 2 x optical, 1 x analog 3,5 mm stereo-jack and 1 x analog stereo-RCA. The Yamaha NX-N500 has optical, Ethernet, a 3.5mm mini-jack input and a Type-B USB port. I play from the laptop, my phone and maybe the TV, each with their own volume controls. Would that be a problem?

      I checked these out in the store today and man are they small! Can't judge them until I've tried it in my own home, but I find it hard to believe that a single Play:5 would provide enough bass in a normal sized living room. Actually I'm almost positive it won't. It's just too small.

      I'm sure that's what it will be in a couple of years. But as of now, I'd play the same in both rooms. Flexibility is definitely a factor

      Ok, doesn't sound appealing at all.

      Yeah, this option is definitely alive. But if I go for the amp+passive option I'll probably skip Sonos and connect the different speakers with a Chromecast instead. I actually bought a nice bluetooth speaker for the kitchen today thats sound really good: Audio Pro Addon T5 review

      If it's a temporary or permanent solution I don't know. But it fills today's kitchen needs. Living room's next.
       
    27. rodnt

      rodnt
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      It's 3,5x6m, and I'll essentially be 6 m from the speakers most of the time. And after seeing the Sonos play:5 in the store today I find it hard to believe that one of those small boogers would be able to fill my room with enough bass.

      I'd rather go soundbar+sub than excellent-sounding-but-to-small-stereo-speakers. I'm sure there's a good option out there
       
    28. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Room/Room Layout - is where your discussion should start not end up back at, though that is often the way as folk get tied up early in kit choices :)

      Use scenario - again a good place to start and from experience I'd say folk change their listening habits quite markedly once they have the capability to 'zone' music around the house. Folk agonise over the cost of a two zone system then quickly add more Zones as they find how much use they get out of a system once they take that initial step.

      TV/Music system - I wouldn't use a PLAY:5 or 2x PLAY:5 and personally I'd be unlikely to use a PLAYBAR + SUB (in preference to an Amp with HDMI/Digital Inputs + a decent pair of Speakers or Speakers + Sub*) though we have many customers who do and are more than happy with how it sounds and the ease of use of the system.

      *I prefer the flexibility of the Amp + Speakers + (where required) a Sub, even though it is a less 'compact' solution.

      Yamaha MusicCast is an option, to SONOS, as the Main system can be Soundbar or AVR/Stereo Amp based and then add additional Zones using MusicCast Zone Players as and when required.

      There are plenty of small loudspeakers which produce a 'big' sound or blend well with a decent compact sub - the Yamaha MCR-N870D is part of the MusicCast range and whilst the speakers (NS-BP401) are pretty compact they produce a big sound (without having to revert to a Sub).

      We have installed/supplied that system using Optical Out from a connected TV and no complaints so far - MCR-N870D - Overview

      Joe
       
    29. BlueWizard

      BlueWizard
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      Joe (Joe Fernand) has a point. The goal isn't to find Zone or Streaming equipment, but to find Zone or Streaming equipment that works for you in your circumstances with your budget and in your space. But, for us to make good recommendations, we need to know the circumstance, budget, and a sense of the layout and the spaces.

      You need to understand what it is you want to accomplish in each space. For a main system, I'm always going to go for a full size Amp and Speakers. However, for secondary spaces, lesser systems are workable but you have to take those spaces and their demands into consideration.

      I would not use Play:5 or even two Play:5 in my main space, but in a bedroom, home office, kitchen, or other secondary space, they would work fine.

      You have to understand yourself, your space, and your requirements to know what equipment best suits the task.

      You can't get what you want until you know what you want.

      Which echos the sentiment already stated. The more you and we understand the space and the circumstances, the better and more suitable recommendations we can make.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
    30. rodnt

      rodnt
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      There's one thing I still don't understand. What do I gain in choosing one of the "streaming" amps you suggest compared to buying a simple amp and connect it to an apple TV or chromecast?

      If I'm going amp-choice, it should have DTS/Atmos or whatever is the latest surround solution. Ie an "All Inclusive amp".

      I'll either go amp - and if I do, I'll connect it to 5.1/5.0 and and possibility to stream music from my phone (built in or something connected to it doesn't matter, will be hidden anyway).
      Or I skip the amp, and focus only on streaming music from my phone. And then I'll probably buy a soundbar to the TV some day, and keep that separated from the music system.
       

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