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Acer PD723 - PD723p

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by darkbluesky, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. darkbluesky

    darkbluesky
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    Hi,

    I'm new to the projectors world (and this forum), and I'm looking for a projector to use PC gaming and movies (maybe a bit more games than movies, but I'm not sure). I am looking for a type DLP with at least 100Hz or 120 Hz of Vertical freq in order to *try* to use it with shutter glasses to see in 3D (stereovision.net forums) with a frame/second par eye greater than 30 (60Hz/2).

    I have found that Acer has some pjs which *look very good* but I have not found any review, or opinion on the PD723 or similar (PD723p, PD725, PD725p).

    The PD723 is about 1400 €, not bad for what it offers, but I have doubts about the true ANSI lumens, and specially about the quality of the movies projection, as it seems it is more oriented as "professional", which I guess, means document-oriented...But, on the other hand, it includes component and HDTV conectors...¿?

    http://www.acer.co.uk/acereuro/page...oupCtxParam=0&dctx1=17&ctx1=UK&crc=2373144243

    The PD723p seems the replacement of the 723, it includes brighter DLP.
    On the page of Acer Spain the description of the 723 shows it as a conference and home theatre option, but... :confused:

    Please, could someone help me with a link or/and his/her experience in this or similar pjs? What do you think?

    Tx a lot!
     
  2. darkbluesky

    darkbluesky
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    No one, I see... :(

    Well, and if I say

    Infocus X3 versus Acer PD723 (these are the two that maybe could go fine for me)

    what do you think?
     
  3. darkbluesky

    darkbluesky
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    NOBODY knows anything about Acer or Infocus pjs ??? :lease:

    :( well, I think I should go to search to another site...

    Tx anyway,
     
  4. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Benq are Acer products under another name IIRC, and they may be better for video than the Acer models. For video, you need a good scaler and deintrlacer built in (i.e Faroudja), but if you are using a PC with good graphics card like a Radeon or nVidia, then you can use the PC as an external scaler (many do). DLP data projectors often have a white segment in them which isn't ideal for movies, as it can make the whites a bit noisy and wash out teh colours compared to a pj designed for video use.

    I don't think the higher refresh rates will be used directly on the pj, and it's more likely they will be converted to 50 or 60hz.

    Most projectors designed for cinema are 16:9 now, so I don't know if that will suit your use for games. Optomas Themesene range are ideal for home cinema, but are 16:9. NEC made a HT1000 and a HT1100, both of which were xga res and gave a great image. They can be used in both 4:3 and 16:9 modes so might be ideal for you. I don't believe they are still produced, so you might want to look for something second hand.

    Infocus's X range were early dual purpose projectors, but the later models were 16:9. Thet did get good reviews in the past. Try to get a demo if yiu can, especially if you haven't seen a DLP in action before.

    Gary.
     
  5. KoThreads

    KoThreads
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    I seem to be the only person on here, and another forum, with an Acer (PD113) it's probably just an odd choice. But mine has quite a few niggles that I've put out requests for answers with no replies.

    I've had mine nearly a year and although it's o.k. for movies it's not great.

    Mine has a flicker on ECO mode after an hour which goes if i switch it to normal (1600 L from 1200) looks like the flickering is infact the pj going from one to the other.

    I've e-mailed Acer more times than i can recall and only ever got one reply which told me to email tech support, take a wild guess where all the emalis were being sent to?

    I have seen brighter 1600 L pj's and mine does seem to give eveything a blueish tint which I can't eliminate no matter how many times i tinker with either the pj or DVD settings.

    It's only done 51 hours of bulb life which shows i think that i should have bought something else as i would really liked to have used it more. it's just dissapointing, but no rainbows or headaches and it does have 4:3 or 16:9 and an auto setting.
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Most pjs tend to lean towards blue/green because the lamps are red deficient. Calbration by adjusting the RGB brightness/contrast (cuts and gains) will rectify this (it's not something that can be done easily though), and sometimes just adding a colour correction filter like an fl-day might fix it to a point, but at the expense of overall image brightness.

    Do you use the PC to play DVDs on it or a seperate player?

    Gary.
     
  7. KoThreads

    KoThreads
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    Cheers Gary.

    My DVD is a Limit 900se connected via component.

    My PC's are in different rooms to my pj so i've never bothered linking either to it.

    Don't suppose you have any clue as to the flicker?

    This is going to sound like suck-up time but I used to read this forum for advice for about a year before I signed on in Jan.

    I'm almost certain that it was your HT pics that made me buy a pj and make a DIY ply screen, and a couple of months ago a proper screen.
     
  8. KoThreads

    KoThreads
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    Gary my pc's specs are as follows

    Athlon XP 3200 o'clocked to 2.3
    Asus A7N8X Deluxe
    1 gig Corsair twined DDR 400
    GF 6600GT 128mb
    Twin 120gb Maxtor SATA (mirror config)

    What would I need to do to use it as a scaler if it's powerfull enough.
     
  9. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Nice to hear I've inspired someone in some way. :)

    The flicker could be the lamp, though what causes it I couldn't say - maybe the ballast getting hot perhaps?. If you went back to low lamp straight after going to high lamp, does it flicker again?

    Your PC sounds fine, so should do a good job of displaying DVDs etc if you run it at the projectors native resolution of 1024 x 768 and use a software player like PowerDVD 6 or WinDVD 6. TheaterTek is meant to be very good and probably the best current playr available, but costs around £60.

    Use the VGA output and that will fed the pj a progressive signal and you should notice an improvement over your current player.

    EDIT - Just seen that you have DVI and that should be better still.

    Gary.
     
  10. KoThreads

    KoThreads
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    Thanks Gary.

    I've got Power DVD 6 already installed so I might move the pc tonight just to see what it's like. The only DVI-DVI cable i have is 1.5 m so it'll be interesting. I hadn't realised it was that simple. You learn somthing new every day.
     
  11. darkbluesky

    darkbluesky
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    Well, thanks for the replies guys!

    The problem is that in addition to the typical decisions, there is the subject of the stereoscopy, and I wouldn't buy any projector if it can't run in stereoscopy mode; this is clear for me.

    Really I think I'll use 75% PC gaming (no console), 25% movies (black&white 4:3 ones mainly, some 16:9 & color too, but not too much, though),

    I have read reports (www.stereo3d.com) of infocus X1a, X2 and X3, and Acer PD523 working unofficialy in 3D (stereoscopic mode), but in 60Hz (a bit low, this leads in many cases to flicker --> headaches), some people reports that they also work in 75 Hz and 85 Hz in 3D, without flickering but, in some cases, with some slight blue ghosting, or cromance difference between left and right frames (each one for each eye), SO

    I was looking Acer PD723p for,

    -its high brightness 3100ansi 2800 ansi eco, but it is true? I'm afraid ...(?)

    -it accepts feeding v-sync up to 120 Hz, and in the user guide, under the image menu, these options can be adjusted:

    Frequency
    “Frequency”changes the display data frequency to match the
    frequency of your computer’s graphic card. If you experience a
    vertical flickering bar, use this function to make an adjustment.
    Tracking
    “Tracking” synchronizes the signal timing of the display with
    the graphic card. If you experience an unstable or flickering
    image, use this function to correct it.

    This means that it could process more-than-60 Hz signals and project them in that frequency? Maybe even if it can't, I could get ride of the "blue ghosting" referred above with the "Tracking" option. So, my question is: Do you now of some pj that allows this "tracking" function?

    On the other hand, I have read that for s.video and composite the video play is not good (I don't know what this means exactly), although via PC connection and composite is good.

    About the NEC pjs, they have *low* brightness, (1100 ansi), as when using 3D glasses many brightness is lost in the LCD glasses, and in addition I consider, maybe, rear projection too...

    Really I am quite lost, if only I could test some pjs and see by my eyes...

    I think monday I'll call Acer to ask some questions...
     
  12. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Hi,

    Lumens for home cinema projectors can often be reduced by 40% to get a true number because the advertised number is derived before it is tuned for quality video images. Infocus PJs tend to be brighter so I'm not surprised they look suitable. The Acer may be a bit better in this respect. How big will your screen be? The smaller the screen, the brighter it will be of course - double the size and you quarter the reflected light.

    Most modern DLP pjs have more than 4 segments in the colour wheel, so this reduces their ability to actually rotate at frequencies higher than 60hz. Early single speed wheels would match the frequency and could go higher.

    I hope Acer can help you, but most technical help over the phone tends be dissapointing.

    Gary.
     
  13. darkbluesky

    darkbluesky
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    Thank you very much, I appreciate your answers about luminance!

    Gary said:

    "Lumens for home cinema projectors can often be reduced by 40% to get a true number because the advertised number is derived before it is tuned for quality video images. "

    This means that in PC mode it will have all the advertised lumens, and only in movie mode it will have about 40% less? Sorry if I have misunderstood your explanation...

    The uses in which the brightness is most important for me, is in gaming, because of the use of the glasses, AND *maybe* rear projection; because is mainly thought for a flight sim, so you must be just in front of the screen and not too far (ie about the width far), this leads me to the fact that even in a ceiling-pj layout, I couldn't sit so near of the screen as I like, but I'm afraid rear projection losse light also, I have not any info on quantity, though.

    The width of the screen (4:3) will be around 110 cm (sometimes about 170 cm max but not often) for gaming (as this case is the worst in brightness loss matter)
     
  14. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    It depends on how the pj has been set up. Normaly the advertised lumens are with the colours boosted to max, and the contrast wound right up - it's the maximum possible light output that the pj can produce with everything maxed out and image quality isn't considered. To make it watchable for video, the colours have to be brought closer into balance (otherwise the image will be green/blue and have little detail), which means reduceing green and blue quite a lot, and that reduces the lumen output. Bringing the contrast control down so that a light of the brighter detail is made visible brings the lumens down even further. Proper calibration and setting white/black levels reduces this number even further, so that typically a 40% reduction for home theater pjs is not unusual. The same can often be said for the contrast ratio figure too.

    Your PJ may not be optimised for video, so it's possible that the lumen output you are getting is only around 20% to 30% less than advertised, but the only way to know is to measure it with a light meter. I doubt the set-up will vary much from setting to setting, so PC mode probably won't be a lot different from any other.

    The image sizes you mention will be quite bright for what you want to use it for. Cinema levels of reflectance are around 12ft lamberts (a figure which represents reflected light), you might be getting around 81FL on a 170cm wide 4:3 screen (more for the 110cm screen), and that is almost 3 times what you expect to see from a tv or plasma, so it should be quite bright and suitable for your uses.

    Gary.
     

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