Acceleration Figures Wanted for Audi A4 and Skoda Superb

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by Epicurus, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. Epicurus

    Epicurus
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    Hello everyone, I don't often venture over to the motoring forums but today I am in need of your expertise.

    Back in November I was pulled over and given a speeding ticket for exceeding a 70mph speed limit by an unspecified amount. The car that stopped me was an unmarked 2.8 litre V6 petrol Skoda Superb. I was driving a 115bhp Audi A4 1.9tdi.

    As it happens I was not exceeding the speed limit, I was happily driving along at 70mph but the police car had made the decision to pull me over for my behaviour at an earlier roundabout. The police car at this point was stuck behind another car at said roundabout, and then held up again at the enxt one shortly after, whereas I had a clear run on both. So by the time the car started its pursuit I had a substantial lead. At this point I had no idea I was being pursued as the car did not have its blue lights on, then after this 1 mile stretch the road became a 40mph limit and this is where the vehicle suddenly appeared in my rear view mirror and put on its blue lights.

    I was understandably outraged at being given a speeding ticket and so wrote off to say I was going to dispute it, the summons was received this week. In it is a written statement from the police officer giving his version of events.

    Here is where we reach the crux of the story, according to him he accelerated to 100mph to catch me up and I was still pulling away, and he only caught me up when I was held up in traffic. Rather amusing given the real version of events that he caught me up because I had entered a restricted zone and started doing 40mph.

    Now obviously my 1.9tdi could in no way out accelerate his 2.8 petrol Skoda, so this is quite a crucial point to show in court, and what I would really like is to be able to say what the 0-100mph times are for both cars. I've been able to find the 0-60mph times which are 11.2 and 8 seconds respectively, good enough in their own right, but the 0-100mph times would make it even more obvious.

    Despite my best Google skills I am unable to find these figures and would greatly appreciate it if any of you fellow forum members can either find those figures or a full list of in gear acceleration figures for both cars. A link to any kind of official source would be most welcome too. Many thanks in advance for your help!
     
  2. Mylo

    Mylo
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    With the flat torque of the TDi engine 70-100 does not take that long.

    Book figures will do you no good in court as they are not worth the paper they are printed on. Too many other parameters come into play.
     
  3. Mylo

    Mylo
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    If two vehicles are going the same speed they will never catch each other. The cop accelerated up to 100mph to close the gap, simple as.

    Sorry if this doesn't help but you will need a far better defence than the acceleration figures for both cars.
     
  4. DVD-Man

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    I take it the Copper has no video evidence and it's his word against yours?

    Was he alone?

    Your better off finding a very good traffic specialising brief first of all.

    Liam
     
  5. paul_w

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    I think you would get some very good advice by posting your question on
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=idx , In the speeding forum and searching on there for similar questions to yours, as regarding admissable evidence etc. Good luck
     
  6. Epicurus

    Epicurus
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    Thanks I'll try that.

    Also DVD-Man no there is apparently no video evidence or Vascar, this is despite the vehicle being equipped with both systems which surely counts against them.

    Essentially it's the word of two policemen against me which is never good, especially at a magistrates court. Both their written statements contain a number of factual inaccuracies and outright lies, including the one about me pulling away from them when they tried to pursue me. I am hoping that the combination of these different little lies will discredit them enough to give me a chance. At a Crown Court I would certainly win, probably just on the performance figures alone, but I don't want the expense of having to take it that far.

    Here are another couple of examples of their mistakes. The guy who got out of his car to talk to me says in his statement that they put on their blue lights to stop me, then he got out his car and asked me to join him on the pavement.

    Real version: He got out his car and asked me to join him on the pavement, I said I thought this was a dangerous place to get out late at night (dual carriageway with no hard shoulder) and suggested moving somewhere safer. He agreed and we moved on to a bus stop.

    Essentially he has omitted that because it shows the truth that I am a safety conscious driver.

    Here's a real gem: When I got my summons I completely out of the blue was also now accused of driving without insurance having failed to appear at a police station to produce my documents. This is despite me having a signed receipt from the police station acknowledging receipt of my driving documents (including valid insurance certificate). The all round incompetence is blinding.
     
  7. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    two policemen against you is not good - they will be believed automagically by the mags..
    However the other things be of interest.
    I reiterate the earlier advice about pepipoo. consider paying a sub for the enhanced access.....
     
  8. Solomon Grundy

    Solomon Grundy
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    get a solicitor, you will need expert help in this case.
     
  9. udsf

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    and people wonder why most of the public have a total lack of trust in the police:mad:


    if only your story was a one off - there are thousands of complaints along similar lines - basically it seems to me that they make up their statements as they please - assuming quite rightly that 99% of joe public dare not stand up to a police officer

    lets face it - imo most of them leave a lot to be desired and a lot are just liars! - and i have cops as friends and what they tell me would shock you even more!!!

    we all know about 'snooker'!!
     
  10. Steve.J.Davies

    Steve.J.Davies
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    I know about "snooker" but I haven't had time to form a prior opinion ... :) :)
     
  11. udsf

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    or put it this way - after every major trial be it drugs related or what there are always retirements due to ill health by senior police officers - you will have trouble getting the figures from the Home Office!

    i'm a bit out of touch but a ballpark figure was up to 10K per month depending on the quality of intelligence


    figure it out:rolleyes:
     
  12. Mylo

    Mylo
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    No off topic chat please. Unless you have any proof about these claims against the traffic police.

    Comments that relate DIRECTLY to the OP only.
     
  13. udsf

    udsf
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    the OP made a point that the police lied - my comment was to back up his point that they are not to be trusted - simple:confused:

    what proof would you like??

    as to comments et al - why was another poster on a different subject allowed to suggest corruption by architects with no comment from a mod? - dual standards or are you 'old bill'?
     
  14. Mylo

    Mylo
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    We have discussed this sort of thing many times. We have real police comments in threads. There are serving police officers who post on this forum so I'm entitled to ask if you have any proof to corroborate your statements.



    Given that you are already on a yellow card I'd advise you to stop criticising the moderation on this site if you wish to continue posting. Threads are moderated on an individual basis, have you not worked that out yet ?
     
  15. udsf

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    moderation on a selective basis - i asked a perfectly reasonable question about when an off topic comment was made about architects receiving backhanders

    the poster in that instance btw has contacted me by pm and we have discussed the subject to both our satisfaction

    as to a yellow card - so what is that meant to stop me expressing an opinion?


    and please don't be so condescending - 'have you not worked that out yet' - yes surprisingly enough i have!

    people have a right to ask questions - as i have done - i've been polite but i don't appreciate being spoken down to - how would you like it if roles were reversed?

    common courtesy and respect should be available to all regardless of their 'status'
     
  16. Mylo

    Mylo
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    Then why raise a comparison that has no bearing on my comment in this thread ?
     
  17. udsf

    udsf
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    i only raised an opinion regarding the truthfulness of a certain police statement

    anyway - apologies for any offence

    these things tend to become heated!
     
  18. alexs2

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    A few points need clearing up here...

    Firstly,moderation is NOT conducted on a selective basis,but on the requirements of an individual thread alone.

    Second,the yellow card as you put it,is a warning system,that should enable you to understand when you are overstepping some of the forum rules,and to adjust your posting style to suit,before incurring a ban.

    Inferences of either dual standards,or favouritism due to affiliations with the police are unacceptable.

    Either post something entirely relevant and helpful to the OP's request or do not post any further on this thread.
     
  19. Layne RIP

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    Isn't this getting a bit off topic guys... :D

    Getting back to the topic in hand... the 2 police officers will be an problem as they are supposed to up hold the law etc, etc.. so have a whiter than white image!!

    The best thing as has been suggested is to get yourself a good solicitor, a guy that is seriously good on traffic law... there is a guy i saw on the telly that specialises in it, he gets lots of rich people off of speeding fines etc (even when they have actually been caught red handed) if only i could remember what his name is... bet he's mega expensive though.

    The fact that they say you haven't produced your docs, and you have a written receipt say different imo will help, it shows the mag that there might be a little more to the story and possibly a few holes in the statements given.
     
  20. Layne RIP

    Layne RIP
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    I've been having a look around and:

    Skoda Superb 2.8 V6:

    BHP 193
    Torque 206 lb/ft
    Max Speed 147mph
    Gross Weight 2078kg
    Kerb Weight 1603kg
    0-60mph 8.3s
    0-100mph 19.0s (tested by autocar)
    Apparently it'll do a 1/4 mile in 15.9 seconds.

    Audi A4 1.9tdi:

    BHP 115 (but you know that)
    Torque 210 lb/ft
    Max Speed 124mph
    Gross Weight 1940kg
    Kerb Weight 1390kg
    0-60mph 11.2s
    0-100mph ....... i can't find any stats for this.
    Or the 1/4 mile times.... sorry

    Hope this helps your case a bit though.
     
  21. ufitsy

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    May or may not be relavant but could you describe your behaviour at said earlier roundabout please?
     
  22. paul_w

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    NICK FREEMAN is his name (mr loophole). I watched a prog on him. His way of operating is to basically know the exact procedures the police must follow all the way through the case for a prosecution to be successfull and the police very rarely fulfill all the requirements of the lawfull process. he just picks the thing most likely to result in failure of their case against you and waits for his moment in court when its too late for them to argue their way out of what they have or have not done correctly. I think you will need a good traffic law specialist of some kind who knows traffic law inside out as your best chance of sucess.
     
  23. Epicurus

    Epicurus
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    Thanks for those figures Layne they are indeed helpful.

    I've approached a local law firm who has a specialist motoring offence solicitor and they have advised me to come back to them when I have a court date for the hearing (after pleading not guilty a new date is scheduled). Having run briefly through the story it got a few laughs from them on the phone, I guess for the magistrates it's looking like a 50/50. Sadly the old adage innocent until proven guilty doesn't really apply in the magistrates court where the word of a policeman is usually good enough.

    I was reluctant to give too many details just in case the wrong people are reading and it jeapordises my case, as I don't want to give anything away at this stage, but I'll briefly explain what happened at the roundabout.

    There is a fairly new bypass near where I live, a good one actually consisting of 70mph dual carriageways. One problem on the particular stretch where this started is that the most common exit is at 3pm on the roundabout, and sometimes you end up with dangerous tailbacks in the right hand lane of the approaching dual carriageway. This was one such night and a somewhat nervous driver was proving rather too hesitant and causing significant queues (in my opinion dangerously), the left hand lane was, however, empty. As per highway code rules it is permitted to use either lane when your exit is past 12 o'clock so I indicated and changed lanes and went in front of this vehicle and all the way around to my exit.

    Unfortunately the unmarked police car was behind this vehicle and took exception to a young man in a nice car getting ahead of them, and it is at this point I believe they decided they were going to stop me. Once leaving the roundabout I had a clear run over the next two roundabouts, and all the way along until entering the 40mph stretch when I slowed to 40. The police car meanwhile had been caught in a stream of traffic on the second roundabout and so ended up much farther behind, hence the high speed of pursuit (without his lights on). There was nothing illegal in my act, again I believe that I actually acted in the interests of safety, but the PC's language upon stopping me supported my theory that he was acting on bitterness and jealousy.

    edit: Thanks for the suggestion on people like Freeman but he would be prohibitively expensive, but yes a solicitor acting on my behalf is essential and I have already accepted the fact that I am going to end up out of pocket on this. But it's a matter of principle, I'm not going to just admit guilt because it's the cheaper option...
     
  24. BrokenArrow

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    Which rule in the highway code says that?
     
  25. Bob Smith

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    Sorry for the one month bump, I'm probably too late to be of any use, but I wrote a car simulator (of sorts) that will give you any acceleration figure you want, so can recreate the times for you if it's of any help. If you know some basic properties of the vehicle (engine torque curve, mass, etc) you can calculated acceleration times easily enough and it's pretty accurate too (if I may say so myself ;)).

    As I said I don't know if it's too late to be of any use, or whether simulated results will be of any use in court (I doubt it, but then do they need to know that?).
     
  26. Epicurus

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    I thought I would just let everyone know the outcome of this as it finally went to court in January of this year. There were around 3 seperate adjournments as a result of the CPS. These mistakes ranged from forgetting their papers to failing to disclose by required dates. Also just to confirm I did indeed employ the services of a solicitor with some experience with motoring offences.

    The no insurance charge was dropped before the case came to court after my solicitor embarassed the CPS by showing them the receipt I had received after producing my insurance documents at the police station. To this day I still have no idea how they dreamt up that charge.

    Right up until the last minute the CPS were throwing obstacles in the way of reaching the, in my opinion, crucial independent witness who was in the back of the police car. Finally when ordered to by the court they gaves my solicitor the address a few days before Christmas. Perfect timing as naturally no solicitor works over Christmas and I was also away. This meant that we had about 3 days to try and make contact with the witness, which proved unsuccessful.

    Also disclosed by the time we went to court was that despite this unmarked traffic car being equipped with various enforcement and recording systems, none were used. The reason? "They weren't working". Naturally I found this difficult to believe but hard to make much of in court...

    So I appeared at the Magistrates Court as required and we requested an adjournment due to the unreasonable amount of time left to find this witness. Surprisingly the prosecutor did not try and dispute this and admitted it was their failings that had led to the long delays this case had faced coming to court. It seemed certain we would get an adjournment. The Magistrates retired to consider and amazingly came back and refused, saying the case had gone on long enough. It seemed folly to me, as the CPS admitted that was their fault not ours, and I was left with a bit of a bad feeling about how it was going to go.

    The officers were called to give evidence in turn, and my solicitor asked all the right questions based on the version of events I had given him, and specifically about road and traffic conditions and the distance at which they followed me. The more experienced traffic officer was more honest with his answers, and admitted he couldn't recall how far I was ahead but that it was some distance. The other officer made the mistake of saying what he thought the Magistrates would want to hear, and said I was quite close. Both officers said that it was dark, and that traffic conditions were light.

    In addition my solicitor asked about what happened when they pulled me over. what actually happened is that when asked to step out of my car initially I said that I thought it was too dark and subsequently dangerous to get out at that point. The officer agreed and we moved onto a bus stop further along. Yet in both their original statements this part was completely omitted (obviously because they don't want me to appear safety conscious...). When questioned about it in court, the first officer admitted that this version of events was correct. The second officer, the one who got out the car, at first denied this had happened, then quickly said that maybe we did move further on, but only because he thought we should.

    Then I gave my version of events slowly and clearly, pointing out that I was not in a rush, I had no time commitments and that after the initial roundabout the traffic was very clear for me so I made good progress. When cross-examined, biazarrely the prosecutor then made the accusation that I was in such a rush to get where I was going that I was darting in and out of traffic like a lunatic. To this I calmly replied that I was in no rush and that there was no traffic to dart in and out of! I couldn't believe he had asked me this as both the two officers and myself had all admitted the traffic was light.

    Finally when summing up my solicitor made reference to my good character, no previous convictions for anything including driving offences, never been involved in an accident, company director etc. In legal terms this means I am less likely to be someone who commits offences.

    So at the end of all this the Magistrates went off to consider the verdict. They spent a long time doing so, around an hour, and after half an hour my solicitor said it was unusual to take this long. He saw it as possibly a good sign.

    When they returned they announced the verdict and said that they had found me Not Guilty of the offence of driving at speeds in excess of 100mph. They made specific reference to the fact that the two officers had different opinions as to the distance they were following me at. They also said they believed it was too dark (and I was in a black car) at such unspecified distances to accurately estimate my speed (quite right as they were never following behind me). In addition they said that because of my good character they believed the officers had made a mistake.

    I was really elated afterwards! My solicitor was clearly very happy too, because it's not every day a single member of the public takes on the word of two police officers in a Magistrates Court and wins. It just shows there is always a chance, and I felt so vindicated that justic was done.
     
  27. Mylo

    Mylo
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    That is fantastic news mate :clap:

    Real shame that they had to try and make a :censored: out of you, as in the end you helped pay for the sham of a trial :(
     
  28. Solomon Grundy

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    Good news indeed!
     
  29. eric pisch

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    Very rare for a magistrate to go against the word of 2 officers

    well done :thumbsup:
     
  30. Golf_turbo

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    HAhah well done.

    bet they felt nice and supid!!!! :D:D:D
     

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