ABC's. The government is surely having a laugh?

loz

Distinguished Member
So, what is this government's solution to Anti social behavior, and gun crime?

Get the yobs to sign an Acceptable Behaviour Contract (ABC) of course, promising to be good little boys and girls.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,,2154682,00.html

The home secretary signalled her intention to order councils, courts and children's services to increase the use of ABCs.

She told the Daily Mirror that she wanted to see four times the present 25,000 ABCs in place within the next year.

The voluntary agreements, aimed at tackling harassment and threatening behaviour, are among a series of measures intended to tackle the issue of youth crime following a series of high-profile killings involving children and youths.

Sorry, but when are they going to understand they just need to throw them in prison and throw away the key?

A contract? Don't make me laugh... :rolleyes:
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Well its not even a contract, its a "voluntary agreement"...

I find it amusing this government wants others to promise to be good though
 

Praxidike

Banned
"Home secretary vows tough action"





"Excuse me, sir. Will you sign this, please?"






Doesn't sound all that tough really, does it?
 
This is beyond a joke, do these people live in reality. Why isnt the person who come up with this laughed out of the job, truly unbelievable these people can be sooo unlogical in there thinking yet run the country.
 

Curly99

Distinguished Member
Can yobs even read? :D I'm with loz, throw them in jail for a while.
I'm all for the short sharp shock..throw them in jail... etc but who's going to pay for it and what jails or prisons we haven't got enough places for the ones already in there.

Curly
 

Kazuya Mishima

Active Member
I'm all for the short sharp shock..throw them in jail... etc but who's going to pay for it and what jails or prisons we haven't got enough places for the ones already in there.

Curly

I'd gladly pay significantly more tax to get the yob scum off the streets.
 

cobbler

Active Member
This is beyond a joke, do these people live in reality. Why isnt the person who come up with this laughed out of the job, truly unbelievable these people can be sooo unlogical in there thinking yet run the country.

You're forgetting this is the same government that will shortly make it mandatory to stay in education until the age of 18. There is however a get out option ................ you don't have to if you are pregnant :eek: That's going to do a lot of good to our already insanely high teenage pregnancy rates :thumbsup:
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
I'm all for the short sharp shock..throw them in jail... etc but who's going to pay for it
Mostly the very same people who will pay if we don't do that, just not all in monetary terms, or through the taxation system. And of course there is the option of redirecting funds from that enormous drain known as the benefit system.

Acceptable Behaviour Contract my arse.

Absolute ******** Contract more like.

And people will probably still vote for them at the next election.
 

overkill

Distinguished Member
Mostly the very same people who will pay if we don't do that, just not all in monetary terms, or through the taxation system. And of course there is the option of redirecting funds from that enormous drain known as the benefit system.

Acceptable Behaviour Contract my arse.

Absolute ******** Contract more like.

And people will probably still vote for them at the next election.
One, that wasn't the only measure to be put in place, two, it won't be expected to work on it's own, Social services and the police will be monitoring what happens, and three, sensible alternatives please? Sorry, I haven't seen any yet. Oh, beyond 'cutting red tape' and spending even more money we haven't got as a nation on yet more prisons.

The only people talking any sense are the Lib Dems who acknowledge that the problem is just a tad more difficult to cure than just throwing more police at it or 'cutting red tape'.

I will be voting for the at them at the next election as there is no sensible (any?) alternative. And that, is a sad, sad indictment of the current political scene as I can't stand them either.

Glad to see nothings changed while I've been away. Everyone still foaming away happily...................;)
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Glad to see nothings changed while I've been away. Everyone still foaming away happily...................;)

You've been away?
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
One, that wasn't the only measure to be put in place, two, it won't be expected to work on it's own, Social services and the police will be monitoring what happens, and three, sensible alternatives please? Sorry, I haven't seen any yet. Oh, beyond 'cutting red tape' and spending even more money we haven't got as a nation on yet more prisons.
It's pretty clear that we need a lot more than anyone monitoring what happens. The causes of the undoubted rise in antisocial behaviour and violent crime are no doubt complex and require a lot of time and resource to address, however that may be. But I want people who behave this way removed from society in the meantime. I don't care if custodial solutions work for the perpetrators, only what they can do for the rest of us. They have the choice of avoiding that if they don't like the idea.

The idea of a behaviour agreement is nothing more than a joke, as is extending it. It is effectively asking people if they wouldn't mind not behaving that way. If it isn't too much trouble of course. We don't want to inconvenience them.

And of course we have got the money to build more prisons and detention centres. That is simply a matter of priorities, and possibly taxation levels.
 

williemaykit

Active Member
Why not send them here or even here? Just drop off some food once a week and leave it to the last man standing. It's alot cheaper than monitoring or getting them to sign contracts.

send us a postcard while you're there. I'll be thinking of you..lol
 

Ayub

Distinguished Member
I think some of the blame rests on the parents. I am sure their values rub onto the child. The environment they live in and the people they come into contact with.

I also think the closure of community centres has had a negative impact on society in general. The teens have nowhere to go and to be honest have nothing to do but sit around streets.

When I was 8/10 year OLD we went out and played football in fields. The fields don't exist anymore and if they do they are owned by company's who charge a fair bit of money to rent them.

So you are left with "White" people living in white areas of the city.
"Black" people living in "black" area's."Asians" living in Asian areas
This is a recipe for disaster.


I don't have faith in the govt, They don't live in my city and do not see the problems with Bradford. Most are induced by the council or can be avoided.
The children are free to leave school at 16 and to be honest if you hear the English come out of their mouth you would be amazed.
They have very little grasp of English, this I fine amazing as they were born here. They have no will to better themselves. Don't respect themselves never mind their parents.
I also think you have to earn respect and their are very few people who earn my respect.Simply put they have no faith in anything.

As a user stated possibly some sort of service where manual and intellectual service would be needed. Say 6 months in 10 years. This would not solve the problem but possibly instil some discipline. This is lacking in the youth today and also a way to vent their frustration and possibly gain some sort of self respect and maybe gain yours/mine too.
My 2p worth.
 

GrahamC

Active Member
I think some of the blame rests on the parents. I am sure their values rub onto the child. The environment they live in and the people they come into contact with.

I also think the closure of community centres has had a negative impact on society in general. The teens have nowhere to go and to be honest have nothing to do but sit around streets.

When I was 8/10 year OLD we went out and played football in fields. The fields don't exist anymore and if they do they are owned by company's who charge a fair bit of money to rent them.

So you are left with "White" people living in white areas of the city.
"Black" people living in "black" area's."Asians" living in Asian areas
This is a recipe for disaster.


My 2p worth.

Agreed. :thumbsup:
 

Setenza

Well-known Member
So you are left with "White" people living in white areas of the city. "Black" people living in "black" area's."Asians" living in Asian areas. This is a recipe for disaster.

Why specifically and what would you do to reverse this?
 

Ayub

Distinguished Member
People are afraid or becoming scared of "people", increase interaction between people/races educate people by increasing interaction between different races and careful consideration of housing placement.
 

mad_matt

Novice Member
My 2 cents worth on this would be, parents have to take full responsibility for THEIR kids and we need to reintroduce discipline back in to schools. Since the introduction of legislation that stopped parents smacking their kids (a slap on the back of the legs type of smack, not a punch in the face type btw) and schools not being able to use any real means we have seen an explosion of violence.

I can't remember a time when there were so many child related murders with knives and guns and gangs. Maybe corporal punishment isn't such a bad idea afterall.

Rant over, thanks...
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
option of redirecting funds from that enormous drain known as the benefit system.

.
therefore forcing more people onto the streets and turn to crime in order to feed themselves and their children.And we would need even more hugely expensive prisons. Be like the Victoriam times .......I think not!
 

PoochJD

Distinguished Member
Hi,

Why specifically and what would you do to reverse this?

FWIW, this new ABC thing is a giant joke on the whole of Britain! If anyone thinks this is really going to lower crime at all, needs their head examining. :lesson:

Okay, with that said and done, the reason Britain gets "ghettoised" areas, i.e. places, locales, estates etc that are predominantly white, asian, black or whatever, is in my opinion for two main issues:

- what starts out as a racially-diverse, or at least non-predominant area, becomes ghettoised because councils decide that any new tenants of the same skin colour/racial background/whatever should be placed. These areas then start to have specific facilities located in or near them, e.g. shops, religious buildings, etc. More people from the same ethnic background are placed there by councils, and sooner or later, you find that one particular religion or race of people is the predominant factor.

- people don't want to move into racially-diverse areas any more, as they'd rather be with people similar to themselves. Now, this can be in the form os same race, same ethnicity, skin colour, or in more simple terms, people of the same class, background, fashion or financial status.

Hence, you get pockets of people all of the same kind, in one area, and those pockets grow and spread out, until they become ghettos, just as has happened in the USA.

With so many people in council housing of one kind or another, they have little say in where they would like to be located, and end-up being placed where there are people of a similar background to them, irrespective of whether the new people have anything remotely in common with the current existing tenants/house-owners.

The only way we can cure this, is by a) mixing-up people, so we try not to form large ghettoised areas, and b) educating children from as young an age as possible, that all people are different, and you need to accept those differences, even if you don't like them. It's ultimately about tolerance.

It's not easy to tolerate something or someone, but it's better to be tolerant than to be an outright bigot, and hate anyone who is remotely different from you. This includes things like the joining of gangs, etc, whereby kids are made to feel bad or wrong, simply because they don't conform to the status quo of the area, or of society, or of the gang's requirements (whatever they may be).

Embracing difference is the key here.

As for tackling crime, the simple answer is more police on the streets, and police who aren't tied down with petty bureaucracy and paperwork. Officers who can actually deal with situations reasonably, but on a case-by-case basis, as they see fit. With more police on the streets (and not in cars) I think the fear of being caught doing something stupid or unlawful, might deter more criminals, and certainly more youths from doing dumb things. Because, most of the time, youths (that is under-15's) aren't actually out committing crimes, but simply doing dumb, stupid things, that really shouldn't require the full-weight of the law to be dealt with. Kids drinking alcohol underage is bad, but the taking away of that alcohol, as well as reporting their acts to the parents, should normally sort things out. Putting through the court system, or through the police, only to end up being told "Don't do it again, or you'll get an ABC or ASBO" is wasting everyones time, and is no real deterrent. But with more police being visible, people are more likely to feel that they won't or couldn't get away with performing stupid or criminal acts, and would more than likely not resort to them.

It's too easy to commit any crime nowadays, and get away with it!

Just look at today's papers: a child-molesting pervert gets a proverbial slap on the wrist, despite plenty of evidence that shows him to be a sick and despicable monster who needs locking-up for the safety of everyone around him! Nine kids have been gunned down in 2007 alone, with another 10-12 of them being stabbed or assaulted, since January 1st! Some countries don't have that much youth crime, in an entire century!

Lastly, we need to look at not what crimes are being committed by youths, but why they feel that crime is the only valid option open to them. Most under-18's commit crimes, because of a few simple reasons:
- they're actually poor and living under or on the poverty-line (in one way or another)
- they're bored, and have no access to areas in their locale where they can safely kick a ball, run around or whatever, without being moaned at
- they're constantly told by society, and made to feel, insignificant and worthless (Just look at the GCSE results from yesterday. More children passed at A* than before, and what do we all do as adults? Why, we tell our kids that the exams are getting easier, and that they haven't really earned anything to be pleased about!" Well, how crap is that, to hear such words being told to you, after all your hard work?!)
- crime is an easier solution, than actually working or earning whatever it is a young person wants/needs (be that money, valuable items like a console, mobile phone or whatever, or attention, love and some respect)
- they want and need (and possibly deserve) some attention from their families and society as a whole

If we can solve some or any of those, youth crime should (in theory) decrease.

Something proper needs to be done, or the public will start becoming vigilantes, and understandably so (even if such action is not morally or lawfully appropriate).


Pooch
(Stepping down off of his soapbox. ;) )
 

Setenza

Well-known Member
Good post Pooch :smashin:

Analysizing the problem is one thing, but trying to implement any sort of process to tackle the problem is a lot harder.

IE with the concept on integrating housing to mix social groups. Those who are not happy with who is moving into an area, will simply relocate.

You can't force people to integrate.

I afraid several problems of this nature will not be resolved until certain older genrations with deeply held opinions, die off.
 

mad_matt

Novice Member
I afraid several problems of this nature will not be resolved until certain older genrations with deeply held opinions, die off.

I think that is wishful thinking, just take a lot at the youth culture in some European cities and you will see the same opinions and hatred as the older generations, in fact nationalism is one element that is increasing in popularity just going to prove, history unfortunately does and will repeat itself.
 

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