AACS hacked to expose Volume ID: WinDVD patch irrelevant

Singh400

Distinguished Member
http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/10/aacs-hacked-to-expose-volume-id-windvd-patch-irrelevant/ said:
The DRM "protecting" HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc films -- AACS -- continues to unravel at the seams. In parallel efforts, hackers in both the Xboxhacker and Doom9 forums have exposed the "Volume ID" for discs played on XBOX 360 HD DVD drives. Any inserted disc will play without first authenticating with AACS, even those with Volume IDs which have already been revoked by the AACS LA due to previous hacking efforts. Add the exposed processing keys and you can decrypt and backup your discs for playback on any device of your choosing. So yeah, it looks like last week's WinDVD update has been quickly and definitively made useless just as we expected it would be. Well, for XBOX 360 HD DVD drive owners anyway but you can see where this is heading, right? Now go ahead AACS LA, revoke the Toshiba-built XBOX 360 HD DVD player... we double-dog dare ya.

:D Great news.

@the movie industry, follow EMI ;)
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
It's not great news if lots of titles are delayed as a result.... :rolleyes:
 

peterweg

Banned
Why shouldn't they revoke the xbox add-on? Its not the studio's fault if Toshiba's hardware is blocked.
 

shaithis

Active Member
You could say "Why should the consumer suffer for someone elses greed?"

We are all being tied into forms of DRM and having to buy new equipment just because the studios are afraid of losing a bit of their gigantic wealth.

Remove protection and then reduce prices to reflect the savings in copy-protection measures and implementations.
 

fortean

Active Member
The real problem is that we have been given the means to copy and distribute material. Before the compact cassette was invented we had no real choice other than to buy LP's and singles.

If, for example, we were restricted to DVD writing, 8Mb broadband and a 10Gb monthly download allowance then pirate high definition films would be much less likely.
 

peterweg

Banned
You could say "Why should the consumer suffer for someone elses greed?"

We are all being tied into forms of DRM and having to buy new equipment just because the studios are afraid of losing a bit of their gigantic wealth.

Remove protection and then reduce prices to reflect the savings in copy-protection measures and implementations.

Businesses are not a charity, they do not HAVE to supply consumers at all. They do so on their terms. Toshiba or Sony will have to provide a update if their players are compromised, its not the studio's problem or ultimate concern.
Don't like it? don't buy it.
 

TrevorS

Active Member
:D Great news.

@the movie industry, follow EMI ;)

How do you conclude this is great news? Or is it your preference that HD video disc die completely at the earliest possible time?

I can't understand how anyone who actually wants the studios to keep releasing HD video discs would applaud this kind of thing. Or is it just that you aren't capable of thinking that far ahead?
 
C

CRUEFAN

Guest
Businesses are not a charity, they do not HAVE to supply consumers at all. They do so on their terms. Toshiba or Sony will have to provide a update if their players are compromised, its not the studio's problem or ultimate concern.
Don't like it? don't buy it.

If businesses dont supply consumers , then they dont have a business do they.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
I cannot believe there are supporters of DRM ,the use of DRM in this case surely circumvents fair use rights .
Copyright was initially set up to regulate the use of and idea etc ,these new DRM measure not only regulate the content ,but the devices too ,its a joke .

The point is we live in a capitalist economy ,the seller was charging over the odds for the product,the market decided that the product was too expensive ,so looked elsewhere eg P2P for a supplier ,the supply chain costs an internet connection ,and maybe a subscription to a provider (usenet).

Because the costs of this new source of goods was so low ,the industry decided to bring in DRM ,so not only would they control the content ,but the devices too ,and keep prices high and competition at bay .

The end result for new hd content is that some of us are going to have to wait a few months for films to be brought out ,because certain customers wanted to watch the content on a unprotected system ,which is not allowed under the new rules for this new format.
So what.

Basically what they are trying to impose on consumers is a constant pay per view ,and so bring out new technologies and formats to lock you into a cycle of payment.

Anyway its a big two fingers from me for the DRM laden products and formats ,and its supporters.
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
If they'd gotten their fingers out of their collective behinds and delivered MMC at the start, then perhaps it wouldn't be under such sustained attack. However, they're still arguing amongst themselves and in the mean time they're being dealt a timely reminder that people don't want overly restrictive DRM and will defeat it.

It is however dangerous as the AACS compromise is the very reason Fox have almost stopped releasing films on Blu-ray. So far no other studio has followed, but if they did the whole HD disc war could implode.

The studios have a choice. Stop releasing and watch the new HD market disappear forever, or adapt and give consumers what they want in a way that still makes you money.
 

Sonic67

Banned
Haven't itunes now removed DRM from some stuff? Piracy is something you will always have. Sooner or later they will accept it's a losing battle. Most people would rather own the genuine product. Reduce the prices and people will buy the original rather than a cheap copy.
 

ahin4114

Member
How do you conclude this is great news? Or is it your preference that HD video disc die completely at the earliest possible time?

Rather a blazé statement considering the prolific pirating of and yet still ready availability of DVD movies.

Or is it just that you aren't capable of thinking that far ahead?

Face it, for every clever DRM writer there are dozens of anti-drm hackers. They're very clever people, and there has not been a DRM system to date that has not been cracked within months of release. Media bigwigs know this, they pay people lots of money to tell them it. If you're really going to criticise forward thinking I think you should point your comments further up the chain.
 

peterweg

Banned
If businesses dont supply consumers , then they dont have a business do they.

Their business is to sell Cinema tickets and to TV stations. They could simply stop selling DVD's and force people to the cinema.
 

Sonic67

Banned
I think more money is made these days from the DVD rather than the cinema. Not an easy thing to mess about with.
 

pjclark1

Well-known Member
Why shouldn't they revoke the xbox add-on?

Maybe because the Xbox add on accounts for about 80% of the HD-DVD players out there. They would kill HD-DVD stone dead if they revoked the key, but strangely enough, only for those using it through a Xbox 360. All the hackers and pirates use the Xbox add on through a PC, anyDVD hd effectively removes any opportunity they have to revoke the key (I may be wrong).
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
Their business is to sell Cinema tickets and to TV stations. They could simply stop selling DVD's and force people to the cinema.


:rotfl: :rotfl: and I thought I'd read it all! :clap:

That has to be one of your best quotes yet Peter.... do you really believe any of what you have written?
 

peterweg

Banned
Maybe because the Xbox add on accounts for about 80% of the HD-DVD players out there. They would kill HD-DVD stone dead if they revoked the key, but strangely enough, only for those using it through a Xbox 360. All the hackers and pirates use the Xbox add on through a PC, anyDVD hd effectively removes any opportunity they have to revoke the key (I may be wrong).

They could still do it, most release on BD anyway (not that thats much better). Studio's do not NEED the xbox add on just because its 80% of the market now. Thats still 80% of nothing.
 

shaithis

Active Member
80% of nothing? LOL

The size of these markets maybe nothing compared to DVD but its still substantial revenue when you consider the small amount of work and costs involved to take their masters and cut the HD-DVD/BD disc from it.
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
I don't think you can revoke the Xbox addon as it's just a bare drive. The HD-DVD player is either the software on the Xbox 360, or WinDVD/PowerDVD on the PC. If they want to stop the pirates, they need to revoke the software they're using and I believe so far that is WinDVD/PowerDVD. If they revoke those players for new titles, then that might help.

However, if the hackers can find the new keys based on past info then that may not matter.. Revoking the Xbox 360 as a player at this stage would seem to serve no purpose.

I said a long time ago that Windows XP if it supported BD/HD-DVD playback would be the hackers platform of choice. If they are really serious, no PC player that doesn't use Vista 64 bit's protected data paths will be allowed. And even that is probably not beyond the hackers eventually.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
Haven't itunes now removed DRM from some stuff? Piracy is something you will always have. Sooner or later they will accept it's a losing battle. Most people would rather own the genuine product. Reduce the prices and people will buy the original rather than a cheap copy.

Couldn't agree more. Look at this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6521255.stm

If this bloke, on his own, can break into US military sites, then any type of DRM can be broken. DVD is not steam-driven, it's still pretty advanced. It had regional coding, then RCE, and the hackers managed to get round that in 2 minutes. The studio execs are living in cloud cuckoo land; i-tunes have the right approach.

Wake up and smell the coffee - we will have dodgy blokes selling bootleg HD DVDs and BDs at car boot sales, whatever DRM is put in place.

80% of nothing? LOL

The size of these markets maybe nothing compared to DVD but its still substantial revenue when you consider the small amount of work and costs involved to take their masters and cut the HD-DVD/BD disc from it.

But the limited high def market out there is the early adopter market.

Miff off these early adopters (not to mention millions of PS3 owners who've paid for BD drives many didn't want) by killing HD DVD & BD by abandoning the formats, and you'll not get anyone supporting a DVD replacement for decades.

Steve W
 

pRot3us

Distinguished Member
It's not great news if lots of titles are delayed as a result.... :rolleyes:
Exactly.
If it wasn't for these pirating scum I'd have a copy of Ran on HD DVD now.

Thanks a lot you no-life :censored:
angry.gif
angry.gif
angry.gif


Thanks for your support of the new HD formats
clapping.gif
 

shaithis

Active Member
Well I guess different people see things very differently.

I don't bother with pirate discs and I have a fairly large collection.....I have about 30 HD-DVDs already and about 10 BDs on order.

Yet I want the protection gone. It serves no purpose to ME at all. In fact these protection schemes are linked to the reason I had to buy a new TV, are linked to regional encoding, are forcing the use of HDMI when I may prefer the look of a component connection.

I fail to see how it does anything but tie my hands and cost me more........for nothing at all in return.
 
C

CRUEFAN

Guest
Their business is to sell Cinema tickets and to TV stations. They could simply stop selling DVD's and force people to the cinema.

Are you mad , movie studios cannot survive on cinema and tv alone.DVD sales must be at least 50% of their business , id guess more.The consumer is king not the business , they supply and we buy.If we dont buy then they go broke.But piracy is an issue , but not as big an issue as the studios would have you believe , dvd sales are still climbing even with rampant piracy.
 

TrevorS

Active Member
Rather a blazé statement considering the prolific pirating of and yet still ready availability of DVD movies.

It's more than obvious (and has been for several years), that DVD is not at risk in the market place -- it is already a proven money maker. That in no sense applies to the fledgling HD video disc market. All the studios have to do is say enough is enough and not even hacking remains an opportunity.

Face it, for every clever DRM writer there are dozens of anti-drm hackers. They're very clever people, and there has not been a DRM system to date that has not been cracked within months of release. Media bigwigs know this, they pay people lots of money to tell them it. If you're really going to criticise forward thinking I think you should point your comments further up the chain.

Hacking after the formats are successful in the market will not place the formats at risk. Right now, the rug could be pulled out at any time. And for this you agree with supporting the hackers? Clearly, you don't support the survival of any HD video disc format, or else you suffer the same challenge as the OP.
 

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