AACS: A Lesson in Futility

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by peterweg, May 2, 2007.

  1. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Guys info on AACS is around but info on BD+ is through 'word of mouth' only. Frankly the long technical specs on AACS is what the hackers used previously so quite why they put this stuff in open literature is beyond me. BD + guys are smarter here. I wrote a long post on all this when it blew up originally explaining the basics and I don't think much has changed. Basically BD+ relies on AACS and links into it, hence the fears over it's effectiveness, it is another 'link' for hackers to have a go at and I know some who see BD+ as the challenge to go for so personally I think it will last between 3 and 6 months tops (and I am supportive of the system). BD+ has undergone testing (rapidly) and there is an outside chance we might see the odd disc this year, but think early next year for most is more realistic I think.
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Neil

    more the other way round to be honest. AACS is still the corner stone of 'security' but if you get into BD+ then AACS is exposed. Many view BD+ as another way into AACS which is just the sort of thing hackers want / need. This is why the DVD forum rejected the technology originally (including the majority of BD members as well). BD+ made it into BD purely to keep Fox on side but I think even Sony may have voted against it originally and they now 'administer it!!' Could be wrong on the latter and would need to check but the bottom line the vast majority rejected it originally after the technical committee did it's recommendations. It will be interesting to see how it does as basically we are all running blind here with lack of info on the forums.
     
  3. MAW

    MAW
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    Fascinating re. Fox, wonder what a 'next year' implementation will do for the Fox release schedule? Bummer, just when I'm lining up for a BD player, just my luck if they stop releasing.
     
  4. TarMoo

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    There is a thread on doom9 forum showing people how to decrypt Blu-ray disks without AACS keys on a PS3. Clearly, Blu-ray is not as secure as studios think.

    Copying of HD disks is only going to be an issues once terabyte sized hard disk costs costs reduce to the point where people don't mind parking 30Gb chunks of data on them.
     
  5. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Copy protection - a compledte waste of time.

    Can anyone named a single version that's worked.

    People have copied Windows Vista already!

    (allegedly)

    Steve W
     
  6. StooMonster

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    The colour code sheets that came with Jet Set Willy on the Sinclair Spectrum? A very early attempt at DRM. :eek:

    StooMonster
     
  7. Squiffy

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    I know kids who photocopied the colour cards, which obviously came out as black and white - so they used a pen to mark which colour was which. R for red, B for blue, etc.

    Anything can be hacked eventually.
     
  8. StooMonster

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    Cough ... joking ... cough.

    If you were in school in Ashford, Kent at the time ... maybe it was me who you saw with photocopied card, although I think I just copied the entire grid and used letters to indicate colours. ;)

    The fact that it used Red and Magenta on same sheet made it not colour photocopyable too, so Alun Maton (MD of Software Projects) used to boast.

    StooMonster
     
  9. andythescientis

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    I guess it's like...

    A house with 1 door is always going to be more secure than one with 2 doors.

    The more doors the more ways in no matter how secure either of them are.]

    And once one is open you just wander through and open the other from the inside.
     
  10. fortean

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    Vinyl LP's worked quite well until Philips invented the compact cassette; how many people owned acetate cutting machines? How many bought pirated LP's?

    They should bring out a format that's for play back only and ensure that the manufacture of the media is only cost effective for mass production. Even if the content could still be copied, it wouldn't be possible to put that content on any media that could be used by a domestic player. We only have copying because it's possible. Admittedly, piracy could still occur but it would be much easier to track down a large scale pirate manufacturing facility than stop individuals copying and distributing material from home.
     
  11. andythescientis

    andythescientis
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    I guess they won't do this because the disc manufacturers make far more money selling blank discs than they loose due to home duplication of the odd title. Fact is despite the song and dance they make about it, home duplication and lending friends discs does not effect revenues one little bit.
     
  12. Bald Monkey

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    I think it's ironic that I, like many others, have the ability to rip and burn SD DVD and rip HD-DVD yet what do I do??

    I lend family and friends many legitimate SD DVD's, no HD-DVD's, as non of them have a HD player, and certainly no burnt copies as there's no point! :rolleyes:
     
  13. fortean

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    I wouldn't agree that home duplication doesn't have any effect, it must have some. But if people that make multiple copies for sale to the public have to make very large investments in equipment that can't easily be hidden or disguised then it will have a big effect in the pirate industry.

    The disc manufacturers could still make discs for people to use at home; they just don't make them large enough to hold the content of a movie disc.

    Piracy needs good distribution to work. As long as they can get hold of the appropriate media they have an easy method of distribution. The Internet, being another method of distribution, should also be limited in bandwidth terms. How many households really need 8Mb connections if not for downloading large music or film files. For general web browsing and e-mail a 1Mb connection is more than adequate. When it comes to on-demand video it is not impossible to allocate a dedicated area of bandwidth for connection by secure equipment to secure services. In this way bandwidth can be made available for legitimate services yet be unavailable for general PC use.
     
  14. fortean

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    That's exactly what I do too. I just don't need a facility to make copies of HD-DVD's, so why do the manufacturers insist on trying to make one available for me?
     
  15. Bald Monkey

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    You think that Blank media sales should be limited, and that BB speed should also be limited, for everyone. Simply because the movie studios may or may not loose money due to piracy? ? :eek:

    I'm shocked, honestly!

    Apart from both of those being ineffectual at preventing piracy, the civil rights affected by such a move in order to protect the profits of private companies is disgraceful.

    I hope you own a large part of a major hollywood studio, because otherwise I really struggle to see how you think that is a good idea?? :suicide:


    ;)
     
  16. fortean

    fortean
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    Can you explain why you want, or need, high speed broadband or the facility to store 30Gb on an optical disc?

    I've found no significant difference in browsing the Internet at 512Kb and 2Mb. The only time a high speed proves useful is when downloading large files; which happens to be mostly Windows Updates for me.

    As for large format storage I use external HDD's.
     
  17. Bald Monkey

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    Well the BB speed is easy, I transfer large files both in the office and at home for perfectly legit reasons.

    I also have made my own DVD's of key events, usually as a favour for others, and have used the full capacity of Single sided recoardable DVD's :eek:

    So Yes I have genuine legit reasons for wanting more.

    I however think the dangers of even wishing for such a blanket draconian move is scary. I really do, I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it. :D

    Perhaps you feel we should leave the running of the country or even the world to the large coporations who care about nothing but their profits and the well bieng of their investors.

    Take your ideas to an extreme... and see where you end up, apart from a Sci-fi film :D

    What if the internet was deemed surplus to requirements, would you welcome the scrapping of that.. What if you were deemed a waste of space :devil:

    Would you be happy if it protected a companies profit? ? :rolleyes:
     
  18. fortean

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    You say large files but that is a bit vague. Do you transfer 30Gb of data at a time? How much longer would it take if you only had a 1Mb connection? The office connection is not at issue here since the IT Manager is not likely to allow the office network to be used for illegal purposes.

    As for DVD's, well I'm not suggesting they are made unavailable; I'm suggesting that films are produced on a medium that is not available to us and won't be made available either. You can't complain that a medium used by a specific industry hasn't been made available to you just because you want it.

    It's not about protecting the film industry either. It's about what's right. The film industry is entitled to protect it's property just as you are entitled to protect yours. If you give people the means to break the law with little or no risk of being caught then many people will do it. You either have to increase the risk of being caught or restrict the means of breaking the law in the first place.
     
  19. Bald Monkey

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    :D No, i'm not often transfering 30GB of data, however the faster the connection the easier it is whatever I'm moving. And over the years I've found that the file sizes have increased as the speeds avaliable have increased.

    As for the IT manager restricting what I do or don't do, :D I'm lucky (IMO) as there is no one to stop me :devil: Yet don't for a minute feel I would be stupid enough to use the companies resources for anything illegal :nono: Fortunately common sense is something I was born with!

    And yes we do enforce the same rules on illegal internet activity for all employees. We would however not prevent them from using the internet if one of them did do so, we would deal with that in a far more targeted manner.

    And just for your info, as I have Cable at home my BB is faster at home than here... ;) :cool:


    which would prevent what? DVD's can be ripped and encoded onto CD-R's

    Thankfully yes I can, I still have some rights... :rolleyes:

    Yes they are, I agree with that, I however think that the publics right to high speed BB and cheap large storage media should be given priority over corporations profits. And as I said I fear that if ever such a thing was to be enforced (which of course it never will... I hope :D ) it woul dbe a step along a rather scary path...
     
  20. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    My last Fox purchase took 2.5 months to come anyway so you aren't missing much atm! It was a mainstream title as well.
     
  21. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Well, we (the customers) might have the last laugh.

    Imagine if the codes keep getting cracked, so Fox titles keep getting delayed.

    After a big price cut in late '07, and with no Fox titles available to help bolster the 'BD has more films' argument, BD fails and HD DVD wins.

    BD is now a tiny, PS3 only market (with a handful of standalones left), and HD DVD is making Universal, Paramount and Warners a huge slice of revenue every month.

    Fox approach HD DVD and ask "Can we join your gang, and can we have an advanced form of DRM?", to which the reply comes "Yes, you can join, but as for more DRM, **** off! Oh, and before you ask, we're not going to support regional coding, either".

    Fox are left with the option - stick to your 'principles' (stop laughing), or join in with HD DVD and make a packet.

    Money Grabbing Fascists 0 Customers 1

    Steve W
     
  22. danvitale

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    Oh dear.
     
  23. Pecker

    Pecker
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    DRM doesn't stop piracy.

    DRM does make life a pain in the jacksie for the ligitimate user.

    Simple.

    Steve W
     
  24. Miyazaki

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    It wouldn't matter because it will always be cracked.
     
  25. Miyazaki

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    Anti-piracy measures only cost the studios money.

    If they would only give consumers what they wanted, 99% of it would stop.
     
  26. peterweg

    peterweg
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    Now you are entering the realm of the ridiculous.

    I think you should be restricted to a 300/1200baud modem and audio tape storage. I got by with in the past why would you need anything more?
     
  27. zeroprobe

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    This is not all about piracy.

    Cracking AACS is for the people who have perfectly capable HD Resolution monitors/tvs but don't have the "required" hollywood input ala HDMI.

    When you remove aacs from bluray/hddvd these people can view there hd discs perfectly on there hdmiless monitors/tvs.
     
  28. TrevorS

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    They can do that via Component anyway with HD DVD for the forseeable future (until such time as the Image Constraint Token is activated for new titles.)

    I don't know if BR has a similar mechanism, but I'd guess it unlikely they currently require HDMI for HD output (would constrain their immediate market) -- could be wrong though.
     
  29. malkit

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    That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on these forums.Are you seriously suggesting that the whole technological world should be limited to 1mb internet connections to protect the revenue of movie studios/content providers?
    What happens in the not to distant future when those same studios/content providers want to start selling us 1080p full hd downloads or even real time streams.How are they going to do that in your 1mb world?
    What about the revenue of the broadband suppliers when you tell them they can't offer any premium services any more only 1mb?
    Think about it!
     
  30. mickey101

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    Totally agree with you there... I'm extremely excited at the possibility of getting HD IPTV in the next 2 or so years as I refuse point blank to give Sky my money... I'm not saying I wouldn't pay for such a service (I happily will) just not to a Murdoch controlled service.

    Should us legitimate, potential, heavy users suffer because of a minority who would break the law?

    I think not!!

    And those who want to sell us their product wouldn't want it that way either... it would be financial suicide!

    I think the OP should try attaching his head before he formulates his next crackpot plan to strangulate piracy.
     

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