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A Guide to Dolby Atmos in the Home

dante01

Distinguished Member
The LFE limit for subs on the Denon is set to 120, I'll increase the crossovers for the up-firers to that value.

The LPF of LFE filter only applies to the LFE channel if and when present. This filter has no effect upon the ctossovers or the frequencies being redirected to the subwoofer in association with them.

There is no limit upon the frequencies that can be redirected to the sub other than the crossover setting limit itself. This would be 200Hz.

By the way, the reason you'd leave the LPF of LFE filter set to 120Hz is because this is the ceiling for the LFE channel in assciation with Dolby encoded soundtracks.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
I'd suggest increasing the crossovers associated with the upfiring speakers to no lower than 120Hz and maybe even having them at 150Hz? This is because the audio is being bounced off your ceiling and lower frequencies don't reflect well if at all. You are effectively losing the lower frequencies being sent to the channels associated with the upfiring speakers and would be better off portraying them via the sub.
It really depends on your speakers and maybe ceiling type/height too. Mine seem to be effective around 110Hz.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
No, it depends upon the fact that lower frequencies don't reflect off of surfaces and are ordinarilly absorbed by them. The speakers being used makes no difference what so ever.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
No, it depends upon the fact that lower frequencies don't reflect off of surfaces and are ordinarilly absorbed by them. The speakers being used makes no difference what so ever.
So what does that mean for my situation?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
It would be the same for anyone ising upward firing speakers. Set the crossover associated with the upward firing speakers to a frequency in the range of 120 to 200Hz.

It isn't as though the frequencies being redirected to the sub will have been localised anyway although they may be more locatable than frequencies closer to 80Hz. I'd not expect the sub's location to become apparent if portraying frequencies in the range 120 to 150Hz.
 
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Coulson

Well-known Member
It would be the same for anyone ising upward firing speakers. Set the crossover associated with the upward firing speakers to a frequency in the range of 120 to 200Hz.

It isn't as though the frequencies being redirected to the sub will have been localised anyway although they may be more locatable than frequencies closer to 80Hz. I'd not expect the sub's location to become apparent if portraying frequencies in the range 120 to 150Hz.
Audyssey put it at 110 and that's what I found worked for me even before Audyssey. Anyway, I will try that and see if it makes a difference.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
All that happens when using the receiver's calibration to determine where it sets the crossover is the AV receiver measures the roll off for the respective speakers. It is this roll off that determines where the receiver suggests a crossover be set or what size the speakers are. Audyssey don't actually deal with bass management and it is left to the manufacturers to deal with this. The only thing Audyssey do is measure the roll off, they don't determine seaker sizes or set crossovers.

This in turn wouldn't take into consideration other factors that influence where you ideally set a crossover. The main one in this instance being the fact that the lower frequencies are not rebounded off your ceiling. If the lower end frequencies are not being reflected then it they are either lost by being absorbed into the building or that they are remaining fixed to where the speakers themselves are located.

By the way, Audyssey suggest bass management be dealt with manually post calibration. Audyssey suggest all speakers be set as being SMALL irrespective of their physical size, their rated abilities or what the calibration come up with.

The only thing worth noting about the crossover settings an AV receiver arrives at after running its calibration is that you should avoid manually setting crossovers below this. Doing so would result in you trying to potray frequencies below the measured roll off abilities of the speakers in question. There isn't anything preventing somone using a higher setting though and you are free to manually set crossover to a higher setting without any detrimental effect.
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
Audyssey put it at 110 and that's what I found worked for me even before Audyssey. Anyway, I will try that and see if it makes a difference.
Audyssey rolled off my KEF R50s at 100hz, still set them to 120 though.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
All that happens when using the receiver's calibration to determine where it sets the crossover is the AV receiver measures the roll off for the respective speakers. It is this roll off that determines where the receiver suggests a crossover be set or what size the speakers are. Audyssey don't actually deal with bass management and it is left to the manufacturers to deal with this. The only thing Audyssey do is measure the roll off, they don't determine seaker sizes or set crossovers.

This in turn wouldn't take into consideration other factors that influence where you ideally set a crossover. The main one in this instance being the fact that the lower frequencies are not rebounded off your ceiling. If the lower end frequencies are not being reflected then it they are either lost by being absorbed into the building or that they are remaining fixed to where the speakers themselves are located.

By the way, Audyssey suggest bass management be dealt with manually post calibration. Audyssey suggest all speakers be set as being SMALL irrespective of their physical size, their rated abilities or what the calibration come up with.

The only thing worth noting about the crossover settings an AV receiver arrives at adter running its calibration is that you should avoid manually setting crossovers below this. Doing so would result in you trying to potray frequencies below the measured roll off abilities of the speakers in question.
Yeah all what you said is a given. I just hadn't bothered to set my up firing speakers above 110hz. I've set them to 150hz now and (depending on the type of effect) the height effects now seem to have more weight. I may experiment more but at the moment I like this :)

Thanks.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The only time you'd need to set the crossover back to a lower setting is if you start detecting where you sub is located. If sending higher frequencies above 80Hz to a sub then the chances of this becoming a potential issue increase, but it is very rare that such issues arise.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
The only time you'd need to set the crossover back to a lower setting is if you start detecting where you sub is located. If sending higher frequencies above 80Hz to a sub then the chances of this becoming a potential issue increase, but it is very rare that such issues arise.
Thanks. I've been saying this for a while now, but every time I think I've got the best out of my system another tweak makes it better. I've tried a couple more film clips and setting to 150Hz definitely makes a difference.

What's funny is that if I get the time, I will watch many films again and enjoy them even more.

Thanks again :)
 

FinnedSgang

Active Member
Hi everyone, can someone tell me the right height position of surround speakers in a 5.1.2 setup?
I added two surround in my configuration (previously i had in ceiling speaker that now serve as atmos speaker) and i found an empty box to pass the cable but Is too High and i don't like the aesthetic of this loppy cable. Someone told me that the stand Is too short, but it's 60cm so the tweeter Is right at the side of the ear when on the couch.

What do you guys thinks? I need to change my stands? What to do you suggest to fix the aesthetic of this setup?
 

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Coulson

Well-known Member
Hi everyone, can someone tell me the right height position of surround speakers in a 5.1.2 setup?
I added two surround in my configuration (previously i had in ceiling speaker that now serve as atmos speaker) and i found an empty box to pass the cable but Is too High and i don't like the aesthetic of this loppy cable. Someone told me that the stand Is too short, but it's 60cm so the tweeter Is right at the side of the ear when on the couch.

What do you guys thinks? I need to change my stands? What to do you suggest to fix the aesthetic of this setup?
My front's are 60cm which is a little low but it works. For you, if your surrounds are at ear height then technically they should be a little higher, but at least it's not below your ear height. You can add a book or two beneath each speaker when you are watching a movie as a temporary measure. I myself have only recently purchased speaker stands. I used to have all my speakers on makeshift boxes, furniture and sofa arms with books to equalise the heights lol.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Hi everyone, can someone tell me the right height position of surround speakers in a 5.1.2 setup?
I added two surround in my configuration (previously i had in ceiling speaker that now serve as atmos speaker) and i found an empty box to pass the cable but Is too High and i don't like the aesthetic of this loppy cable. Someone told me that the stand Is too short, but it's 60cm so the tweeter Is right at the side of the ear when on the couch.

What do you guys thinks? I need to change my stands? What to do you suggest to fix the aesthetic of this setup?

According to Dolby, suroounds idealistically need to be located at the seated head height of the listeniner (level with the front speakers). You can deviate a little from this ideal, but you'd be advised not to go higher than 2' above this.

snapshot002.jpg
 
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FinnedSgang

Active Member
Actually the height of the stand Is 61cm, the surround speaker itself (a focal 706) Is 40cm so the Total height is 1meter and i have my ears when seated at the same height of the woofer (tweeter is just 2-3 cm above).

My front speaker are focal 826v with a height of 1.038m they are only slightly higher than the surround While the atmos speaker are in the ceiling at 2.8meter from the ground, 2meters height from my ears )the couch is not particularly tall.
i'm fine with these measurements?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The height is generally defned by the location of the tweeter. As said, Dolby suggest the height of the surrpunds be the equavalent of the seated head height of the listener:

  • All listener speakers should be at the same height, typically 3.9 feet (1.2 meters), which is ear level for the average seated listener


If the surrounds are obscurrred by furniture then you can raise their height slighly to compensate, but I'd not raise them more than 2' max above the recomended height. Doing so make the output sound more dispersed and less localised which isn't in aienment with how the soundtrack will have been mixed.


If possible, the height of the rear speakers should be the same as the height of the front speakers. If the room design makes this impractical or impossible, the rear speakers may be positioned higher than the front speakers. However, we suggest that the height of the rear speakers not be more than 1.25 times the height of the front speakers.
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
The height is generally defned by the location of the tweeter. As said, Dolby suggest the height of the surrpunds be the equavalent of the seated head height of the listener:
That's interesting because this is what I got from Dolby.com about surround speakers.

Left and Right Surround Speakers
Surround speakers create a lifelike sense of spaciousness, providing ambient sound within movies. Place the speakers to the sides of the seating area, ideally just above ear height.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
That is what Dolby used to suggest prior to Atmos. Dolby have since revised this and suggest all the floor level speakers be ideally located at the listeners seated head height:



I'd siggest the revised advice came about due to the importance seperating the conventional layer of audio from that associated with the Atmos layer. Move the two closer together and you diminish that localisation that differentiates them.


The ideal as suggest by Dolby within their guidlines is the keep all the floor level speakers at the same level and this level is ideally the ear height of the seated listener.
 
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Coulson

Well-known Member
That is what Dolby used to suggest prior to Atmos. Dolby have since revised this and suggest all the floor level speakers be ideally located at the listeners seated head height:



I'd siggest the revised advice come about due to the importance seperating the conventional layer of audio from that associated with the Atmos layer. Move the two closer together and you lose that localisation that differentiates them.


The ideal as suggest by Dolby within their guidlines is the keep all the floor level speakers at the same level and this level is ideally the ear height of the seated listener.
Cool! I wish I could do that, but my surrounds are behind a sofa.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Cool! I wish I could do that, but my surrounds are behind a sofa.

I too have to compromise and my surrounds are a little higher than the ideal. Dolby thremselves accept that some compromise may be needed and also make a suggestion that the surrounds can be mounted 1.25 times (floor to tweeter) above the height of the front speakers if required. THe higher you go above this though then the less discernible that level will become from the Atmos overhead layerr and the more dispersed the surround effects will sound.


If the front left and right speakers were mounted 1.3m on the front wall then you could mount the surrounds 1.6m up from the floor. There is some leeway to mount the surrouds higher than the front speakers, but not as much as was aceptable prior to Atmos.


Speaker Placement
As with any surround sound system, a Dolby Atmos setup should be built around the viewer or listener’s ideal location. For instance, those who plan on building entertainment dens often install their full-range speakers on shelves or stands so they’re at head height when people sit on the couch.

Users can choose an appropriate height, or listener level, at their discretion. All speakers at this level, however, should be at the exact same height. In most standard Dolby Atmos setups, listener level is set at 3.9 feet, or 1.2 meters.

For some users, space constraints prevent the rear and front speakers from being placed at the same height. While Dolby Atmos can function properly with elevated rear speakers, they can’t be more than 1.25 times higher than the front ones. For best results, the speakers should all be the same distance from the listener.
 
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FinnedSgang

Active Member
Sorry, noob question, i've a Denon x3500h and a couple of Just installed atmos speaker in ceiling, where i have to plug them to the avr, surround back or surround?
 

Coulson

Well-known Member
Sorry, noob question, i've a Denon x3500h and a couple of Just installed atmos speaker in ceiling, where i have to plug them to the avr, surround back or surround?
Surround back, otherwise where would you plug in your surround speakers?
 

r9800pro

Active Member
Anybody noticed some Atmos mixes are lower in volume and dynamics than the TrueHD core or the lossy DD 5.1 mix for some specific films?


And I mean a HUGE volume level difference, not a small one.
 

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