A good read, why 3dtv's ect are getting worse for 2d and ( 3d passive ) gaming

mocca

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Hi,

I've been bugged out for awhile with pixel response times, but i found that was'nt what was bugging me a few weeks ago but i just had an idea then, seems my idea was sort of corect in why there is so much blur/ghosting on 60hz/60fps content with lcd 3dtv's ( cant comment on plasma ).
It seems to me that tv's are getting better for film related material but worse for gaming.

Tome a es8000 has loads of blur/ghosting/trialing at 60hz in 2d and so does a dt50, both sets sort there lifes out when interpolation is active but this adds too much inpt lag to games.

It would seem that panel refresh rates over 60hz have issues playing back 60fps content or any content that does'nt use frame interpolation to make the source the same framerate/hz as the panel.

So the higher the panels refresh rate the higher blurring/ghosting/trialing will be if frame interpolation is'nt active.

This is why i have had so many issues lately, i could'nt believe a es8000 and dt50 looked so bad in 2d with massive amounts of blur/ghosting/trailing, and as i did'nt know what was happening i blamed it on Pixel response times.


Anyway, hope you have a good read as it does explain the reasons why games are looking worse and worse with more blur than ever.


Imagine a 60hz/60fps on a 1000hz panel, that leaves 940 frames blank, this creates massive amounts of blur/ghosting/trailing, obviously the 1000hz is fake, it may only have a 200hz panel ect but either way 60hz does'nt fit into 100/200hz ect without frame interpolation.

Looks like what would be best is a 60hz passive 3dtv panel for 2d/d gaming, all you'd need to worry about then would be pixel response times ?


What does the CMR number on Samsung TVs mean? And how to find out real panel refresh rate?

Very interesting, someguys there have great knowledge.

What does the CMR number on Samsung TVs mean? And how to find out real panel refresh rate?
 

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Motion blur is all about image decay and it gets very confusing if you mix this with refresh rate.

Take a purely hypothetical simple example:

Assume you have image decay of say 30mS (about 30 Hz) but you refresh the panel at say 60, 120 or even 240Hz.

Even though image refresh is faster this doesn't change the decay time and the result can be a distinctive smear or blur on anything in motion since the lit elements of the image are still decaying even when "refreshed". On the other hand, any unlit element will immediately respond to a refresh - and it's this unbalance that can produce odd effects - which may well get progressively worse at the faster refresh rates!

I'd say you really want image decay to be either the same or quicker than refresh although the downside is of course flicker.

...and as you say mocca, interpolation processing simply leads to input lag.
 
Hi Jason,
Seems Mark corrected ( underlined )one of my paragraphs.
Seems i may be seeing the duplicated frames and labelling it as blur/ghosting/trailing?
I'd say on a normal slow/medium gaming panning shot at at 60fps the ld950/920 probly had 1mm between the ghosting of the trailing image/images, but lately on teh tv's i've tested the same test shows the trailing image to be about 3-4mm behind, this is too much as it just creates 2 images that are easily seen, i know this is one of the issues that lcd's have but it's getting worse.

Maybe my passive interleaved with zero added input gaming is coming to an end, the only way i can kick start it again is to get another ld950/920 :facepalm:

Imagine a 60hz/60fps on a 1000hz panel, that leaves 940 frames duplicated, this creates massive amounts of blur/ghosting/trailing, obviously the 1000hz is fake, it may only have a 200hz panel ect but either way 60hz does'nt fit into 100/200hz ect without frame interpolation.
 

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