A general rambling with questions

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by Twin Turbo, May 1, 2007.

  1. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Morning one and all.

    After getting used to my new HV20, I find it a lovely little piece of kit. Very easy to pick up and use, and the Auto setting makes it pretty foolproof.:thumbsup:

    That said, there's something I can't figure out. I recorded pretty much 6 minutes of combined footage, with plenty of pause/record stops throughout.

    When I hooked this up through MovieFactory 6, it all came through as one big file...no stops. Reading the HV20 manual, the only thing I can find says that you need to use the remote to set certain timestops. Surely this can't be the only way? Or is MF6 the problem?

    And now that I mention MF6, it's only a trial version I'm using at the minute. What software would people recommend? I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to video editing, although I have used the basic editing features on my DMR-EH80V DVD recorder, and I love the whole editing thing. I literally could spend a few hours chopping/renaming/partial erasing tv footage.
    So I'd like something powerful, (fairly) easy to pick-up, and something that allows HDV footage to be dropped onto a standard dvd-r. Any suggestions?

    Also, and slightly off topic, I'm gonna need a new pc for editing. My pc at home crashes when I try run MF6, and even my pc here in work (P4 2.8GHz, 1gb RAM) slows way down when I launch it. But at least it works!
    So, what would people recommend PC spec wise? I'd prefer not to get a minimum spec, as it'd be outdated too quick, but I don't want to go top-end either, as it'll be too pricey. Something in the middle ground that's easily upgradable. It'll almost primarily be used for editing, surfing, and office stuff. Won't be gaming as I've the 360 for that. I'd prefer XP for compatability reasons for the time being. I don't want/need a monitor as I'll be getting a big LCD to hook it up to.

    So there ye go lads. Told ye it was a bit of a rambling!:rolleyes:
     
  2. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Regarding the capture as one file – that is a function of the capturing software (MF6). If it supports scene detection for HDV then there should be an option to turn it on. (Sorry I don’t use MF6 so can’t tell you exactly).

    For software: I have to mention Sony Vegas (suggest the Movie Studio Platinum edition) as I’m a Vegas fan. Others to consider are Ulead Movie Studio, Premiere Elements 3, Pinnacle 11….

    So I'd like something powerful, (fairly) easy to pick-up, and something that allows HDV footage to be dropped onto a standard dvd-r


    Depends what you mean here. If you mean a standard dvd-r which can be played in a standard DVD player, then that’s easy and all the above can do that… but the DVD will be standard definition. It is possible to burn HDV onto a standard dvd-r in high def, but that needs a HD-DVD player to play it (or maybe a Bluray player, or a PS3, or I think even an XBOX)… and you may have to convert it from HDV 1440x1080 to 1920x1080… I’ve not done this. What I am doing (as are others) is creating SD DVDs for now, and also creating HDV master tapes, which I’ll turn into some sort of high def DVD later. Others can give advice on options for making a High Def DVD today (but be warned this is bleeding edge stuff).
     
  3. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Thanks Mark.:thumbsup:

    The scene selection thing. Didn't even think that there might be an option to turn it on. Will have a look.

    Software-wise, I'm completely open to suggestions. The reason I'm trying MovieFactory 6 is I read that, and this ties in with the dvd question, you can burn HD footage onto a regular dvd-r for playback on an HD player. This is what I'm looking for ie. software that allows HD recording and playback on a dvd-r.
    I ideally want to make HD DVD-r on the pc, SD DVD on my dvd recorder, and like you, keep the original tape until HD burner prices level off.
     
  4. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    For HD recording and playback on a dvd-r I think Ulead is the right place to start, as it does indeed support that. (In fact I know of Vegas users who still use Vegas for editing that use MovieFactory 6 to create these HD on DVD-R DVDs. )

    So you have a HD-DVD player then?

    I would start with MovieFactory 6, or I think Ulead Video Studio will do the same. The difference is Video Studio is a proper editor so will allow more complex edits than MovieFactory... MovieFactory will allow simple edits.
     
  5. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    If MovieFactory 6 doesn't support scene detection upon capture, HDV Split is free capture software which does.

    http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm

    You can then still use MovieFactory 6 to create your DVDs.
     
  6. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Thanks once again Mark. You've the patience of a saint to be explaining this stuff to novices like me!:smashin:

    Have just installed and used HDV Split there, and it has created seperate files for each break, so that's one problem solved. I'm also currently capturing through MF6 as I type, and I'm gonna try compare quality.

    I don't know if you can help me from here Mark, since you said you don't use MF6. Maybe someone that does can.

    Using HDVS, I could change the framesize from fullframe to 1/2 frame, etc. Nothing about rates and the like.
    Whereas in MF6, and I "New Video Project" and then "capture from device", the video file captured from the HV20 comes up with the properties of...

    Attributes : 24bits, 1440x1080, 16x9
    Frame Rate: 25fps
    Data Rate : 25000kps

    But when I click "project settings", the settings for mpeg are....

    MPEG files
    24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
    Frame-based
    (DVD-PAL), 16:9
    Video data rate: Variable (Max. 7000 kbps)
    Audio data rate: 256 kbps
    Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

    Why would there be this discrepancy?
    Does this mean that if I do any editing to the video clip, it's gonna reformat the clip into the "project" settings instead of leaving it in the original setting?

    Sorry for the stupidness!:rolleyes:
     
  7. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    The full frame, ½ frame etc option in HDV split is just the size of the preview window. Has no effect on the quality. HDV capture is just a digital copy.

    Attributes : 24bits, 1440x1080, 16x9
    Frame Rate: 25fps
    Data Rate : 25000kps


    This correct for HDV.

    But when I click "project settings", the settings for mpeg are....

    Whilst I don’t use MF6 this is pretty standard (and I did use MF3, so I have some idea). You generally have 3 different sets of properties (2 of which you can configure).

    1. The properties of the captured clips. The captured HDV will be HDV, no issues there.
    2. You should be able to set project settings in MF6… these look like they are defaulting to PAL-DVD. You should be able to change these. The project settings impact how the preview looks, and also how any generated media (e.g. text) is done.
    3. When you “render” to create your edited file, you can select what format you want. So for example you could render back out to HDV format, or you could render to SD-DVD, or you could render to .wmv etc
     
  8. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Cheers.

    Cool.
    Step 1 accomplished. :clap:

    OK.

    - I'm getting the video captured correctly, and in proper HDV* format.

    - When I check the info of the clip, it confirms the 1440x1080*, 25fps settings.

    - When I go to project setting, and try change the MPEG settings, the highest settings I can get are 720 x 576, 25 fps. Even when I try customise, the highest frame size is 720 x 576. Maybe it's because I'm using a trial version, and the higher settings are disabled?:confused:

    - Have never got to the "rendering" part, as I didn't feel it was worth it given the frame size....but I guess that's something to look forward to!:rolleyes:

    All-in-all, things aren't going too bad. Once I get this thing working once, I'll be laughing!:smashin:

    Two more questions though.
    1. Am I better off splitting the file into smaller files at the start, do my editing, and then rejoin all the clips into one (pointless??), or am I better off leaving it as 1 big file, create chapters, transitions, etc. and then burn as one file?

    * - Can you tell me why the camera states 1920x1080, but the video only comes out at 1440x1080?

    Thanks.
     
  9. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Did you download the "plus" version of DVD MF? Only the plus version has HD support.

    Am I better off splitting the file into smaller files at the start, do my editing, and then rejoin all the clips into one (pointless??), or am I better off leaving it as 1 big file, create chapters, transitions, etc. and then burn as one file?

    It's a matter of preference. Either way, you will render out to one big video file at the end (or could be several, if you want them to be separate videos on the DVD). The only advantage to the scene splitting upon capture is to help you edit. If you want to leave out an entire scene then you just leave out that clip. If you have one big file as input editing is probably harder - especially if you are using something lime DVD MF which isn't a strong editor.

    Can you tell me why the camera states 1920x1080, but the video only comes out at 1440x1080?

    Because it's HDV. The camcorder records a 1920x1080 image, but when it is encoded to be recorded on the tape it is squeezed to 1440x1080 with rectangular pixels. These get expanded back out to 1920x1080 when played. It's to save bandwidth. All HDV cams do this... as do the AVCHD cams. The only one which doesn't is the JVC-HD7... :)
     
  10. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Yeah, got the plus version. Fancy downloading it, installing it, and seeing if I'm a complete idiot??;)

    Stupid bloody HD7!!;)

    So, when you say it reverts back to 1920 when it's played, is that just when played from the camcorder itself, or will it do the same when rendered to HD-DVD through MF6?
     
  11. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    I actually was going to try it, but I can't get the download link to work.

    When you create your DVD, it will be in HDV format, so 1440x1080. But the HD-DVD player will know to expand it out when you play it.
     
  12. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Got it sorted Mark:clap: :clap:

    Bottom left corner of the menu, there's DVD written. Didn't notice the little arrow next to it indicating it was part of a dropdown menu!:rolleyes: Was able to change to HD-DVD, and now all the settings are bang on!:thumbsup:

    One final question though. The clip is 1440x1080, and you mentioned that a HD-DVD player will automatically bring it up to 1920x1080. Well there's an option in MF6 to bring the framesize up to the 1920 before burning.
    Would I be better off converting the clip to 1920, burn it, and take the upscaling of the dvd player out of it? Or would I be better off leaving the clip as is, burning it, and leaving the dvd player to work it's magic?
     
  13. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    You are better off leaving it as 1440 and having the DVD player deal with the non-square pixels. Converting to 1920 will require the software to re-encode, and also will create larger files (so you will fit less on a disc).

    The only reason you would convert to 1920 would be if your DVD player has an issue with the 1440. But I think any of the HD-DVD players should handle it OK.

    So it's nice there is an option to convert to 1920 should you need it... but don't use it unless you need to.
     
  14. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo
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    Nice one.

    C'mere, thanks again for all your help. This whole camcorder thing is a complete minefield, but you certainly made it a lot easier for me.

    Thanks again.:thumbsup:

    Over and out.
     

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