A few questions

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by jpr141, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. jpr141

    jpr141
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    Just a few questions, i have the denon 2808. When you go to the 2 channel set up stereo/direct section in the menu, you can set large or small for the front speakers and what crossover frequency you want, my question is if you set speakers to large is the crossover frequency still valid as it is still available to select.? And do you need to turn the sub channels volume up on the av receiver as i have read it should be +10db louder, or is this already done in the original sound track.? One more, what is the difference between stereo and direct sound modes as i cant seem to hear any difference between them, what is one meant to be doing different to the other.?
     
  2. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    Speakers set to large are not affected by the crossover (they receive the full rane signal), only those set to small are affected.


    You shouldn't need to adjust the sub on the amp, use the gain (volume) on the sub itself. It should be the same level (ideally set using an SPL meter) as the other speakers

    Direct mode send the original signal, unprocessesd to the speakers, bypassing all unnecessary AV circuits. If you have a 5.1 signal, all channels will play, it is is stereo only the front 2 will play. Direct mode will generally sound similar to stereo, but on stereo you probably have the sub playing as well depending on your configuration.

    Chris
     
  3. William YZF-R1

    William YZF-R1
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    Apologies if I am muddying the water here but after playing with settings for LARGE & SMALL on my non Denon. I went back to LARGE and let the Receiver do its stuff (Manual crossover setting not possible)

    When playing Stereo CD's the subwoofer is still used depite the right and left speakers set on large.

    So I deduced that the Receiver with the speakers on large, is still applying a crossover frequency for the sub. Its only when I choose "Direct" that the sub is not utilised which makes sense as CD's are 2.0.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  4. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    Some subs, like my Yamaha, allow you to select whether what should play the bass (as opposed to LFE channel, which is always sub) when the fronts are set to large (choice is sub, fronts or both). Presumablty if you have fronts and sub playing you'd want to set the crossover on the sub to prevent 'doubling up' where the amp and sub frequency response overlaps (or better still use high level filter).

    Chris
     
  5. William YZF-R1

    William YZF-R1
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    I am even more confused now. My sub is only connected by single phono with LFE on. So surely the Receiver is in control of everything including sub and crossover frequency. With LFE ON the subs own crossover setting is ineffective.

    So why with my speakers on large is the sub still utilised for 2.0 - The Receiver must still be applying a crossover setting for the sub?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  6. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    Ok, let's put high level to one side, I only mention it because it the only way (because it's connected to to the front speaker terminals) to connect a sub for music in direct mode.

    If you have a sub on low level connection, as you do, the setting the crossover on the amp to 80Hz, and for example, will do the following (for non .1 LFE tracks):

    always
    - frequencies above 80Hz will go to any speakers set to small

    then
    Bass Out = SWFR
    - all frequencies below 80Hz will go to the sub, and assuming the sub crossover has been set to off or max this is what it will play
    - fronts will get above 80Hz even if set to large

    or
    Bass Out = Fronts
    - sub not used
    - fronts get full range

    or
    Bass Out = Both
    - all frequencies below 80Hz will go to the sub,
    - fronts get full range

    The concern I raised on 'doubling up' relates to the final scenario where, for example, if I had fronts that went down to 50HZ, the would be a band (80Hz to 50Hz ) being played the fronts and duplicated by the sub. If this was the case then reducing the crossover on the sub to 50Hz would eliminate the problem (or ndeed reducing the crossover on the amp).

    Chris
     
  7. jpr141

    jpr141
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    Thanks, i knew most of the answers to be honest but just like to double check sometimes. Just one thing in my particular set up the sub does play in direct mode, i guess theres not often one rule for all in this game.:)
     
  8. William YZF-R1

    William YZF-R1
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    I guess this could go on forever. My speakers are on large with my sub on LFE ON (no high level input) and yet my sub is still used for 2.0.

    The Receiver must still be applying a crossover setting with the speakers on LARGE or the sub would be silent.

    It is only silent if I use DIRECT ie true 2.0.

    Either I am missing the point, or your original statement re LARGE speaker setting applies no crossover setting/full range to Right & Left is wrong.

    I do however concede that the original question was about a Denon Receiver not a Sony.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  9. jpr141

    jpr141
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    Just a quick point which i think doesnt often get mentioned, when you set a crossover to 80hz say the speakers set to small will still get some information down a bit lower than 80hz, until it's totally cut off. This also needs to be taken into consideration when setting a crossover in my opinion.
     
  10. missinglink

    missinglink
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    Hi William, I agree with you and have read somewhere that despite the absence of a '.1' signal such as stereo, AV amps will send some bass via the RCA connection.

    There must be a set crossover according to the amp design. I think if the AV amp does any sound processing it will create some bass from the signal - especially if you choose a DSP such as Dolby Pro LogicII etc. So the Pure or Direct option makes sense and bypasses any internal processing.

    Even selecting Large or Full range, the design may crossover at say 40 Hz.
     
  11. jpr141

    jpr141
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    Well my sub still works in DIRECT mode(low level input), as i said before theres not often one rule for everybody in this game. Maybe when set to large the crossover does still apply for your sub only while the mains get the full range signal.
     
  12. jpr141

    jpr141
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    Obviously the higher you go up a range of av receivers, the more variety,features and tricks up it's sleeve they it will have. This may explain peoples different opinions on some things sometimes.
     
  13. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    Quite correct, I omitted this to try and keep things simple (and failed miserably :D).

    As you say, we are all talking different amps/manufacturers so I'll concede on this.

    Chris
     

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