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a chat with tag/proc/pre/+3802/

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by mick23, Jan 8, 2003.

  1. mick23

    mick23
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    gave tag a buzz today initially re refurbished processors and what was availiable etc,

    subject got round to av and sterio performance and the like, the very helpful tag guy,stated he had a lower priced av amp than 3802(av amp model not known)

    he added tag av32r processor and was using with small subsat package, got "huge improvement in 2 chan sterio" not suprising as tag is good proccessor,


    (tag was linked to avamp using the sacd inputs) having mentioned i was trying to improve 2 channel sterio of 3802,

    but could not afford a tag processor and had tried power amp,integrated etc, the tag guy suggested as av amps preamp section is (normally not that good for 2 channel)


    he had a look at denon website specs for 3802 and suggested trying a sterio preamp linked to the 5.1 section of 3802 (the sacd section)

    this would use the 3802 internal power, but the (sterio preamp+cd ) for cd playback,

    can anyone offer views on this, has the 3802 got the relevant (sockets for this) the tag guy was not able to find large picture of 3802 back panel to be 100% sure connectionwise. ps tag guy thought the power section of say 3802 a lesser issue than the preamp part
     
  2. mjn

    mjn
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    i've said it before, and i'll say it again....... try using sentences when you type. It makes it far easier to read and understand what you're saying!
     
  3. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi Mick

    What the Tag guy is suggesting is to use the 7.1 external decoder inputs. These bypass the pre-amp section of the Denon so you´ll be using the amplification only.

    Cheers:)
     
  4. mick23

    mick23
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    to mjn you are correct will do in future.

    to jase, this might be a solution,
     
  5. Jase

    Jase
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    Mick

    Another thing to try would be to connect your CD players analogue outputs to the 7.1 external inputs of the Denon to see if you hear any improvement.

    Bear in mind there is NO bass management so you will get full range signals going to the front left & right speakers and nothing going to the sub (unless it´s connected via the High Level connection).
     
  6. cskates

    cskates
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    Using 5.1 or 7.1 inputs into an intgrated amp definitely can be done, and can produce startling improvements. I initially had my AV32R going into the 5.1 inputs on my old Arcam AV50 pro-logic amp, the Tag was a lot better in stereo and knocked the socks off the external Denon Dolby Digital decoder I had been using.

    One thing you have to remember though is to fix the volume of your external amp. That Denon probably has a digital volume control so just set that at a known level and leave it, any channel volume adjustments should be left at zero as well. Any volume adjustments and calibration should be done on the Tag.
     
  7. mick23

    mick23
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    to cs what you have stated is how the tag guy had it set up,

    but he was suggesting i use a (PREAMP) not integrated connected as stated,


    to jase, i normally use direct mode only for cd replay,with sub at low level.






    having looked at denon manual page 44 ,i would have to select (external in) to access whatever was connected to the (external 5.1 etc) but if read correctly , direct mode etc cannot be selected,

    i am asuming (preamp+cd) connected l/r to external decoder inputs, select external in on 3802, i would have no need for direct etc anyway.????
     
  8. petrolhead

    petrolhead
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    Interesting.

    So If you are thinking of upgrading to a separate AV pre and power amp you can go 2 ways.

    First buy the power amps and connect to you existing amps.

    Second buy the Prer amp and connect to existing amp using the 7.1 inputs
     
  9. Jase

    Jase
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    Mick

    Direct mode on the Denon still gives you sub output at low level (you can switch it OFF though). Using the External Inputs you won´t get sub output unless you are using a High Level connection as I mentioned earlier.

    Obviously if you were using a TAG processor for 5.1 etc then you would have sub output. I don´t know what the TAG does with it´s sub output for its Stereo/Direct modes etc.:confused:
     
  10. cskates

    cskates
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    All your analogue and digital connections would be made to the external processor, the only connections going into your reciever would be into the 5.1 or 7.1 inputs. The external processor would then handle switching the various surround/stereo modes as well as any subwoofer signals.

    The subwoofer output should go from the processor, to the reciever and then to the subwoofer. You can go direct from the processor to the sub, but passing it through the receiver means that it's volume gets adjusted along with the other channels if the receiver volume changes.

    The Tag has Direct and Direct+Sub modes. In Direct+Sub there is bass management and time delay processing, in Direct these are bypassed. All analogue inputs are converted to digital at 96kHz 20bit regardless of what mode is selected.
     
  11. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks for replies
    seems to be a bit of confusion here,

    the tag guy sugested i use a (sterio pre amp to 7.1 inputs) in my case, with 3802,

    i can well see benifit of adding tag processor but at £1700 there cheapest model new, and not having the a/logbypass, is way over my budget for the time being,
     
  12. bob007

    bob007
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    Mick, looks like you are in the same situation I was a few weeks ago, didn't know which way to go, power amp or processor route first. In the end I opted to purchase the power amp first as I had all the other components in place and thought this was the best way for me. I don't listen to that much music but when I do I like to have some quality there, just adding the Rotel to the system has made a big difference to the 2CH side of things. Might be worth investigating. :)
     
  13. mick23

    mick23
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    i should at the moment be trying a linn lk85 power (on trial) but missed the parcel force bloke this morning,

    i would have tried rotel 1070, or 1060int , but was a bit wary rotel might be (to bright with my cdm1nts) thus lk85 was suggested by b&W rep who was in shop when i phoned,

    cant comment untill i link lk up to av ,
     
  14. sceptic

    sceptic
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    Hi Jase
    I've got an email from Tag suggesting
    "Connect the analog out of your CD player to the 5.1 bypass (connect the CD/ DVD outputs the front right and front left inputs) and the receiver's pre-out to the 60i power in sockets."
    I've been baffled by this as my Marantz SR5200 has nothing labelled '5.1 bypass'.
    Now I think you've solved the problem. Does he means connect the CD to the 7 CH Input jacks and the Marantz pre-outs to the Tag 60i CD input sockets.
    Presumably the front speakers are then connected to the TAG 60i amp.
    Have I got this right and if so do you think it's a good idea?
    My original query with Tag arose when I said that when I connected a Stereo amp to the pre-outs of the Marantz AV amp I didn't hear any improvement.
    Hope all this makes some kind of sense. :confused:
    I'd appreciate your advice on this.
    Cheers
     
  15. mick23

    mick23
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    to sceptic,
    not sure how you had it set originally, (front speakers to 60i???)

    i thought usual configeration was marantz f/lpreouts to any spare input on 60i say aux, cd connected to 60i, front speakers connected to 60i,

    so playing 2 channel sterio its cd+6oi+front speakers, only, i would have thought there would be "some "differance in 60ivs marantz, for sterio,
     
  16. Jase

    Jase
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    sceptic

    Like you say, they mean connect the CD player analogue outputs to the 7 CH Inputs of the Marantz and then the Pre Outs (Front Left & Right) to the TAG. Then connect the speakers to the TAG.

    But you could also just connect the CD player direct to the TAG and cut out the Marantz as Mick has suggested.

    Best thing is to give it a go and see which sounds best.:)
     
  17. sceptic

    sceptic
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    Jase
    Tag have confirmed that this is what they recommend.
    I'll try it next time I audition any amps. :)
     

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