1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

a better cd player

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by dexter, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. dexter

    dexter
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    196
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +0
    I currently own a Marantz CDR4000 cd-recorder. It retailed for £400 when new and many in the hifi press said that it matched most £400 and below cd players when it came to sound quality during playback.

    I would like to upgrade but was wondering how much I would need to spend (and what models people recommend) to get a worthwhile improvement in sound quality. I am looking for a standard cd player as I will keep the Marantz for recording.

    Cheers
     
  2. overkill

    overkill
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,778
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Murkeyside
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Go for a budget around the £500-600 mark and dem the following:-


    Arcam DIVA82
    Exposure 2010
    Marantz CD6000 KI sig
    Roksan Kandy

    Any of those will out perform your DR4000. Try to listen to a few of them, and even better choose a dealer that will let you take the DR4000 with you. That way you can hear any improvements for yourself. The real stars (on personal taste only!) are the DIVA82 and Kandy. But again, see for yourself!!! :D


    If you hear one you like then check pricing - unless the dealer is already offering a tasty price. For example, Hifibitz are doing deals on Arcam gear right now.

    Hope that helps.

    Have fun!!
     
  3. SKA.face

    SKA.face
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'd keep it and use it as a transport,then add a DAC from TAG or musical fidielity.
     
  4. overkill

    overkill
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,778
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Murkeyside
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Not being funny, but why??? Both of those are expensive DAC's. You need a quality transport to match. The DR4000 ain't it!!:nono:
     
  5. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,072
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    :nono: :nono: :nono:

    I don’t post here much these days but advice like this has spurred me into action Overkill, first of go and read the £1200 Musical Fidelity Trivitsa 21 DAC review in HFW, there you will see that the reviewer uses 2 different transports for the review : an Arcam CD72 and a Marantz 6000 OSE, both of these transports are more than adequate to pipe a digital signal to the MF DAC and both achieve stunning results for him (MF have long used very good recovery clocking for varying transports jitter effects). I dont doubt a dedicated transport using higher spec connections will sound better, but a DAC like the Trivitsa only has RCA SPDIF and it seems to manage lifting the transports in the review why would a CDR4000 be any different ?, so advising a person with a transport already to go and buy another is IMHO a waste of his finances when he can easily run a 2nd hand DAC from the like of TAG (£350 DAC 20) or MF (£450-500 A3.24) as is suggested above, then in future add a dedicated transport if you wish to uplift the performance further. There is a more than acceptable area of hifi for many CD users between normal players acting as transports and high end CD transports FYI.

    Is your finger wagging a result of experience or what others say BTW ???
     
  6. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    I'd also agree with CJROSS on this,and from the experience of using a very high quality DAC and upsampler on both high quality(Linn)and somewhat lower quality(digital out from PC drives),and can definitely say that whilst the results from the dedicated CD player are obviously better,using a high quality DAC with good jitter rejection(such as the MF dac and my own Perpetual Technologies DAC/Upsampler) can go a long way towards the results of a much more expensive upgrade.

    One of the best examples of this was the test results(both subjective and objective)of using the P1A/P3A dac/upsampler with an ageing Pioneer DVD player known for it's awful jitter and audible performance on CD,and then adding in the above components and comparing the results.

    I'd also be interested to hear what you base your finger wagging on!
     
  7. overkill

    overkill
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,778
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Murkeyside
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Oh, nothing much. Just selling hi-fi for a living for years and having to put up with customers who saw tests like yours & bought equipment on that basis. Then after prolonged listening coming back and bending our ears. Sorry guys, no money back, being the response!! If the Transport isn't up to spec build wise the jitter rejection of the DAC won't make F-all difference.

    We proved this by actually bothering to test all our DACs with a variety of transports, (in REAL world situations) both integrated with dig out, and standalone transports before making recommendations for dems.

    Equally important the CD-R's don't, with rare expections, produce the same sort of sound quality as a pure replay unit. So why bother? He can also get a NEW player for a little more than the second hand recommendations you are making. 9 times out of 10 he won't get a chance to properly dem those either. Even more laughable "add a dedicated transport later".......... why spend even more when he could have solved his problem in one hit??

    So, let's see, new or second hand, hear a proper comparison or not? Hmm that's a toughie!!!!!

    Already on here i'm getting a little weary of advice given on the basis of "this test said that" and "my £xxx,xxx.xx system proves that i know what i'm talking about". Help is fine, forceful statements aren't. This sort of thing used to make my life as salesman difficult enough, here at least i can walk away............

    Au revoir:)
     
  8. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Nice to see that it was based on trials,and that a variety of transports and DACs were used....that certainly places you in a relative minority in that business,so I for one appreciate that.

    A good quality DAC undoubtedly does make a difference even with indifferent transports,and my own listening tests confirmed that for me,even before HFW's comparitive tests on the same subject.
     
  9. SKA.face

    SKA.face
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    :nono:

    Well mr finger wager,
    I have a dedicated Micromega transport it was £1000 new,i also have a loewe DVD player,i tested them both with a Micromega DAC,and to my shock they sounded exactly the same,so imho opinion the marantz transport would be fine acting as transport duties.so no wild statements on my part.

    In the grand scheme of things the tag dac of MF arn't the exspensive.:hiya:
     
  10. SKA.face

    SKA.face
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0

    100% without a doubt,there are some stunning DACS out there,for example try a Cal audio,it will make a massive improvement on you cd reply,these little beauties can be found for around £250-300
     
  11. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,072
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    I think quoting a well respected mag like Hifi World in the context of ordinary CD players being used as transports was more than fair in this thread, I could argue all day with you on jitter rejection of DACs but I aint going to, suffice to say many DAC users happen to enjoy what an integrated player can do as a transport.

    You mean you listened to cheap CD players and expensive CD transports and in every case you liked the CD transport option ? That is not a surprising admission from a hifi salesman now is it. Did you conduct proper measure jitter spec tests in these cases, or did you maybe for victim to pre-belief in each case, I would have liked to have seen some blind A/b of your choices old chap.

    I think the digital output of a CDR4000 is nigh on identical to a Marantz CD4000, in fact into a recovery reclocker like a M A3.24 (available for £400 FYI) are you saying that there is a marked difference.

    Says the man advocating a rebuy of a transport that’s not the best use of his budget IMHO.

    Yes it could be for a few people. But for many willing to experiment the rest is history as they say.

    It seems to me you are getting a little miffed in how to get your opinion across without getting stressed out by other hifi users opinions. FWIW I don’t give much precidence in what reviews say at all either, I can quote them as I have done above when its about personal opiniion, but one thing is certain as a hifi dealer your views when selling kit could be construed as being much more loaded about achieving profit rather than what a buyer actually needed.

    FYI the poster above “SKA Face” I have known for a few years on hifi fora and his opinion is as valid as yours no matter what you have done in the past, finger wagging to a man of his knowledge is quite irritating IMHO and not really needed.
     
  12. ddlooping

    ddlooping
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,413
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +27
    Hi all. :)

    Newbie question on the same subject (not about "finger wagering"):
    I'm interested in purchasing the Pioneer 565 "universal" DVD player.
    Would you consider its "transport" good enough to make a possible addition of an external DAC worthwhile at a later date?
    If yes, would the resulting improvement be comparable to using a CD player a "range" above (£400-500), or would it simply lift it to the quality of a CD player in the same price range (£200-250)?

    Thanks in advance. ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...