9th July - Proposed changes to Freedom of Panorama a.k.a taking pictures in public places

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by AMc, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. AMc

    AMc
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    On July 9, the plenary of the European parliament is going to vote. This is the last chance for the MEPs to discuss and change the stance on the subject of Freedom of Panorama that they want to communicate to the Commission.

    In the UK & lots of the EU you may take a picture in a public place and use that image any way you like, including selling it or sharing it. Even if it includes a copyright protected building or sculpture.

    An attempt to expand that right to the whole EU including countries like France and Italy has been flipped around to attempt to restrict those rights here and in other EU states that currently allow that freedom.

    More information - including a map that shows which members currently have this protection.
    Julia Reda – Freedom of Panorama under threat

    Petition to get this decision changed while we still can
    Petition · European Parliament: Save the Freedom of Photography! #saveFoP @Europarl_EN · Change.org

    Contact your MEP about this (or anything else!)
    WriteToThem - Email your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, or London Assembly Member for free
     
  2. thedude

    thedude
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    So they are trying to get it so we do not have the facility to take photos of buildings and what not across the whole of Europe?

    I can't see it happening or being policed correctly if it did. It would in essence mean that anyone with a camera or a phone would be breaking the law all the time. Doesn't seem plausableto me.

    Then it would have to come to the point is it recognisable from the photo, did i take a shot of something that wasn't recognisable. How do you define the building? Does it need to be the whole thing a corner? And again as commercial is that for profit, ie one photo sold on canvas or using it for marketing.

    If the guy that can take screen shots of people from twitter and sell them i do not see this working one bit.
     
  3. AMc

    AMc
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    It would be pretty much unworkable but that doesn't mean we should sit by and do nothing about it.
    I assume the primary intention is to prevent people taking pictures of famous new buildings and public art and then selling them without reference to the original "artist" but the legislation as it's tabled will do just what is described make it impossible to share a picture on Facebook of a building until the architect has been dead for 70 years. It will be a mountain dropped to crack a walnut.
     
  4. AMc

    AMc
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    All good points but you could be the one facing a massive legal bill to prove that what you were doing wasn't infringing - or as most of us must when threatened by crushing litigation by a big corporation - you'll have to take it down.

    Look at what the music industry did to 12 year old file sharers -
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3096340.stm

    Take a look at "orphan works"
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/29/govts_orphan_scheme_plops_out_broken_on_arrival/

    Just because it's crazy doesn't mean it won't happen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  5. thedude

    thedude
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    I for one will stand up against it and take the fight to whereever i need to.
    Im not scared, i have nothing therefore they take nothing ;)
     
  6. boltlock

    boltlock
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    Well they could take your camera for a start. ;)
     
  7. kBm

    kBm
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    I never knew a night shots of the Effiel Tower was protected by copyright. How interesting.
     
  8. AMc

    AMc
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    Under these changes The Eiffel Tower would be out of copyright as Charles Léon Stephen Sauvestre died in December 26, 1919. Don't point your camera at the glass pyramid at The Louvre.
    This really is a dreadful idea so please stick your name on the petition and/or email your MEPs.
    I've had one MEP office response from UKIP. Given they oppose everything EU they're already against this.
     
  9. eddiewood

    eddiewood
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    12,332 still needed.
     
  10. AMc

    AMc
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    Just now "193,818 supporters - 6,182 needed to reach 200,000"
     
  11. spannersatcx

    spannersatcx
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    You’re one of 195,455 people to sign this petition. Now help find 4,545 more people to reach the goal.
     
  12. shotokan101

    shotokan101
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  13. RajP

    RajP
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    ImageUploadedByAVForums1435895499.418164.jpg
    Signed!!
     
  14. AMc

    AMc
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    Petition Update · 190,000 supporters of the Freedom of Panorama! · Change.org

     
  15. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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    Signed.
    Typical EU BS. Turn one thing on its head so it becomes the antithesis of the original. Brilliant.
     
  16. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
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    Sent to The Register, just their kind of thing.
     
  17. AMc

    AMc
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    Second of my MEPs has replied - surprising and also encouraging as my MP rarely bothers.

    It would be a victory for common sense if they could extend the Freedom of Panorama across the EU and hamonise on the best option not the worst.
     
  18. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
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    But that would mean not taking power from people.
     
  19. nvingo

    nvingo
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    Of course, if the sites accepting uploaded images changed their T&Cs to NOT authorising commercial re-use...
     
  20. AMc

    AMc
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    ...Then you'd just have lost the right to take pictures in public places and sell them.
    Still one fewer right for no benefit at all.
     
  21. shotokan101

    shotokan101
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    but isn't the issue that it would still be seen as commercial use by them as they make income from advertising on the sites ?
     
  22. weaviemx5

    weaviemx5
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    Assuming this came into effect, how/who would police it? I'm sure Facebook aren't going to start asking users to confirm they have a license for each image they upload so are more likely to update their terms and conditions to state that you upload them having already obtained approval.

    Unless someone actively reports an image as being in violation I'm not sure how it would be picked up? I'm sure people already report images for violating usage rights already (e.g. National Trust locations).
     
  23. AMc

    AMc
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    Facebook already expect you to have the rights to an image you upload - if they didn't they would be jointly liable for your copyright infringement.

    Terms of Service
    Worst case: an industry of claim farming would spring up - using google image searches to find infringing images, then send threatening letters on behalf of the copyright holders of the major buildings and public art work to pay a licence fee and/or remove the image.
    I'd also expect to see take down notices all the time when people post pictures of demonstrations against government and corporations. For example you wouldn't be able to post a picture of a demonstration outside the London Assembly without permission from the copyright holder of the building - probably Norman Foster (Forster and Partners). Same would be true of the Scottish Parliament as that's a new building.

    I'm not confident this will make it through from draft to being signed into law in the UK (which is the final step and a long way off) but to let it slide past unchallenged while your rights as a citizen are reduced would seem crazy.
    So far 390K EU citizens have signed the petition so hopefully this attempt to take away our rights will be cut short - but you snooze, you lose!
     
  24. SanPedro

    SanPedro
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  25. AMc

    AMc
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  26. anibap

    anibap
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    Good news finally.
     
  27. AMc

    AMc
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    https://www.change.org/p/european-p...of-photography-savefop-europarl-en/u/11358071

    "And the debate changed indeed – even MEP Jean-Marie Cavada, who started everything with his proposal of restricting the Freedom of Panorama in the first place, called upon the other members of the Parliament to vote against his own amendment. Many politicians brought the Freedom of Panorama up in the debate and mentioned that they’ve received “hundreds of e-mails and letters” from concerned people – from you!"
     
  28. Faldrax

    Faldrax
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    As The Register points out, it was unlikely that this would have made it to widespread adoption in member states which already have a Freedom of Panorama, but what this campaign has achieved is to raise the profile of the issue with MEP's (and people in general) and so made any other attempts to erode this by other means harder.
     

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