9986 settings tip

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs Forum' started by Warp, Feb 15, 2005.

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  1. Warp

    Warp
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    If you find that the PP2 sometimes makes the picture look too "in the studio" I have found that if you:

    - set DNR to Minimum and turn Active Control off

    it forces the TV to do some DNR (if active control is on the TV usually turns the DNR down). This subtly takes the edge off the sharpness of the PP2 which I think leaves a sharp more film-like picture. It just did on CSI anyway!

    FYI....my other settings for SKY viewing are (although still tinkering) are:

    Contrast = 55 (I did have this around 62 before but found some whites to be too bright)
    Brightness = 53
    Colour = 54
    Sharpness = 0
    Tint = Normal
    Digital Options = Movie Plus
    Dynamic Contrast = Minimum
    DNR = Minimum

    Active control = Off
     
  2. jimsan

    jimsan
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    I agree with most of your settings Warp, in that keeping the processing to a minimum is desireable as long as the source is good enough. I find the colour set at 54 to be a little bland, but you are right to keep the sharpness on the soft side. Mine is at 2. PP2 running at the Movie Plus setting is definitely preferable to the full PP2, most of the time, giving a more 'relaxed' picture.

    Jimmy
     
  3. Rob1698

    Rob1698
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    I know the service code but what is the setting in the service menu?
    Is there any document describing those?
     
  4. jimsan

    jimsan
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    I know of no documentation. I have PM'd the tweak.

    Jimmy
     
  5. Warp

    Warp
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    Jimsan

    I also know the service code but would love to which setting reduces the backlight.
    Please can you provide details?

    I am hoping this will also reduce the glossy look on skin tones I sometimes get (another reason I was trying to reduce the whites).

    warp
     
  6. Alan D

    Alan D
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    I have noticed that using DVI-DVI (from my Denon into the Philips) gives a more filmic "less processed" picture (even with PP2, which appears active at 576p and 1080i). It needs the brightness reducing to 30-35, but when adjusted is gives a great picture for movies.
     
  7. Imadreamer

    Imadreamer
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    Hi, would love to know how to reduce the backlight somewhat on my set also but don't know the service code or the procedure. Please could somebody give me some further information?

    Cheers
     
  8. jdl

    jdl
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    Alan the reason you see a more filmic "less processed" picture with the DVI connection its because the PP2 algorithm is only 70% active for the 576p and the 1080i signals.
    The 100% of the PP2 power is only active with the analog connections from rf to rgb scart.
     
  9. Alan D

    Alan D
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    Interesting stuff jdl - you are obviously well informed! I watch all my movies at 576p or 1080i via DVI and I am a happy bunny. I haven't yet tried the "secret tweak" which has been doing the rounds as I am unsure what it is actually doing. I wondered if reducing luma gain is just effectively reducing contrast - or is it more complex than this? The backlight intensity reduces below 67 on my 37" (there seems to be a "step" at this point - I can toggle between 66 and 67 and see the difference). I had thought 63 was the figure, but testing it the other night it seemed to be 66/67. I certainly don't run contrast any higher.
     
  10. jdl

    jdl
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    Alan when you say "secret tweak" you mean the service menu?
    In the case of the luma gain it has NO EFFECT for the component signals is only affecting the incoming RF signals.
    Service menu is vital to tweak the parameters that affecting the color balance and in order to bring the screen in excactly 6500 kelvins.
    BEFORE STARTING MESSING AROUND WRITE THE DEF VALUES ON TO A PAPER BECAUSE THERE IS NO RETURN TO DEF VALUES.
    Worth trying. ;)
     
  11. Warp

    Warp
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    I also get the step at 66/67 on my 37" but there are other steps below that as well. I am finding the contrast the hardest to set......DVE disk doesn't help much. I had mine set at 66 for the first few days and am currently trying out some lower settings.
     
  12. jdl

    jdl
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    The 576p will give you better results than the 1080i because only the interlal scaler of the tv is active.
    When you send a 1080i from your dvd, the scaler of the dvd upscales the signal (576p to 1920x1080i) and then the scaler of the tv downscale the signal (1920x1080 to 1366x768) in order to bring it to panels native resolution.
     
  13. Alan D

    Alan D
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    I have so far resisted all temptation to enter the service menu as I am aware of the risks! But I did manage to make great improvements to my old Sony CRT with a lot of tinkering... To be honest my biggest "bugbear" is usually overscan, and when watching via DVI this virtually disappears anyway (totally disappears at 720p). I have been pleasantly surprised how much more image is shown via DVI compared with Scart, noticeably at the sides of the image.
     
  14. Alan D

    Alan D
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    Actually, I have tended to use 576p most of the time - instinctively - as I think it has the edge picture wise. So I don't really need the Denon's upscaling facility at all (bother)! - but I do need the DVI output.
     
  15. Rob1698

    Rob1698
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    Unfortunately there is no way to set this via the service menu on the 9986.
    The geometry page, available on a Philips CRT TV, is completely absent.
    This is obvious for settings like side geometry, pincushion, EHT compensation etc, but the H and V size settings are also on this page and thus not available on the LCD models.
    (on my old CRT Matchline I also had reduced the picture size to have less overscan)
     
  16. blexxun

    blexxun
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    Jimmy, I'm really wondering what you secret tweak is.

    I have the service manual availabe (for the FTL2.1E chassis) and there is no indication how you can affect the backlight level. All settings refer only to video processing.

    It seems to me there is no easy way to reduce the light output. Unfortunately the backlight inverter is not documented in the service manual. Its is considered as a part of the panel and as such treated as a black box.

    In order to find out more I downloaded the data sheet of the panel. For the 37/9986 thats the LG.Philips LC370W01. In the data sheet the dimming range is specified as 20...30%.
    Its a bit strange to see that they specify a range for that. Maybe it is because the datasheet is only a preliminary one. Anyway, this data sheet doesn't really help. The back light inverter is not documented either.

    In the end I did some measurements of the brightness level as a function of the contrast settings. In my case, the minimum dimming level is achieved at a constrast setting of 66. The values are then as follows:
    white: 125nits
    black: 0.25nits.
    Thats exactly within the spec range of the panel.
    BTW, a black level of 0.25nits is actually not bad if compared to plasmas. It is better than most plasmas can do (worst case is Pioneer) and is probably beaten only by Panasonic plasmas.
    However, my LCD-Monitor (Samsung) can be dimmed down to 0.15nits. Thats really much better. For me this confirms that LG.Philips is not very strong when it comes to backlight dimming. In the monitor area they cant manage it either.

    Its really a pitty that the backlight cannot be dimmed more. In dark environment the minimum setting is still too bright for my taste. But I must admit - from a technical standpoint - its is not that easy to achieve a wide dimming range and adds a lot of cost. It is possible yes.
    The only way to achieve that for a 9986 is to modify or to exchange all backlight inverters. Because the 9986 backlight unit has 16 CCFLs you have to deal with 8 backlight inverter.

    Lets hope that future improvements like the upcomming dynamic backlight delivers a better dimming range.
     
  17. blexxun

    blexxun
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    forgot one thing.
    For all owners of a 9986 who are interested in the technical details of the 9986, on the CD that comes with the TV set there is a collection of all schematics. A bit tedious to read but I find it quite interesting. There you can check out the signal flow especially of the DVI-I input and how they are processing the digital and analog signal streams. A bit disappointing but I don't use the DVI.
     
  18. Rob1698

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    I have studied the schematics but I am not so sure that *all* schematics are there...
    It is difficult to trace the path of the signals as there are so many pages, but I think there are quite some blocks missing.
    One of them is indeed the backlight power supply. When I just had bought the set I found it much too bright and looked for ways to reduce the backlight (either by trimmer or via software) but I cannot find anything concering the backlight level except a small circuit that seems to be added in a later mod level, and I cannot trace either the input or the output of this circuit.

    The circuit behind the DVI-D is indeed surprising (or disappointing).
    On the other hand, the existance of such a circuit (and the IC) will probably mean that HDMI-to-RGB (or to component) converter boxes will appear on the (grey?) market as soon as the need arises :)
     
  19. Camillo

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    Funny you would say that, as changing the default luma gain of 1 to 0 clearly improved the blacks for me. I have backlight bleeding in both top corners, and it can be significantly reduced by setting contrast to 63 and decreasing luma gain.
     
  20. Basil

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    First and most important - thanks for all the posts on this set folks (especially Jimsan ! :thumbsup: ) they really helped me sift through all the available models, and make the right choice.
    It finally arrived yesterday, after just over a week of fun & games with the supplier - but that's another story!

    First impressions - Wow! excellent black levels, no ghosting, no buzz and the ambilight (the only feature I was sceptical about) works a treat, really subtle, but effective.
    After a rather worn CRT, anything would have been an improvement, but this exceeded all expectations. Even the physical appearance is good, the review pictures just don't do it justice.

    It has Version 2.0 software - did anyone figure out what 2.2 gives us?

    I've only just begun to experiment with the settings, and am still using RGB via ext1.
    My picture settings seem rather high, compared to the others suggested, My settings are:
    Contrast: 65
    Brightness: 63
    Colour: 62
    Sharpness: 3 (!)
    Tint: Normal
    Digital Options: Movie Plus
    Dynamic Contrast: Minimum
    DNR: Minimum
    Active control: Off

    These give me a picture that is perhaps a little blue, but has good bright whites & blacks - I still need to play more, but it's a start.
    I found that the recommended settings looked too cold, the above settings were arrived at via a THX setup guide from a DVD.
    Interestingly, the contrast setting seems non-linier from about 62 upwards, below this, the increments seem to make little/no difference, whilst above, the difference was quite large. Could there be a fault of some kind here, or is it my eyesight?
    If anyone has any tips or suggestions, all are gratefully received!
     
  21. Alan D

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    Contrast certainly notches noticeably upwards beyond 66, several times if you let it! The only one of your settings that looks slightly high to me is brightness, but that may be your preference. I too have sharpness at 3 by the way! Surprised that you say it looks a "little blue", that's not something I've heard mentioned regarding this set.
    Here are my settings for Scart sources/TV: (incidentally mine is the 37" version - but settings appear consistant across sizes AFAIK)
    Contrast 63
    Brightness 53
    Colour 61
    Sharpness 3
    Dynamic Contrast: Minimum
    DNR: Off
    Colour Enhancement: On
    Active Control: Minimum or off depending
    Incidentally, I don't know exactly what Colour Enhancement does as toggling it off/on doesn't seem to make any obvious change to colours!
     
  22. Hunterm8

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    my blacks look a tad blue if i watch in low attificial light ay night but fine in the day anyone else find this?
     
  23. Camillo

    Camillo
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    I have a digital source (DVB-C), and I prefer DNR: Off. The noise reduction really causes a slight delay in display, whereas I have not noticed smiliar delays caused by any of the other settings. Other than that, I would say your settings are good for an analogue source.

    For digital, I would have less sharpness (1-2) and perhaps more dynamic contrast (Medium). As far as I can tell the dynamic contrast seems to adjust the gamma curve and also do something like "auto levels". At least my eye likes the increased contrast.
    Yes, I have noticed the same "knee" in contrast at that point. It is probably the backlight being regulated, and the first handful of increments seem to be pretty steep.

    I have my set in a south-facing room, so I run with Active Control on, and a contrast setting of 83. That allows the set to use 63 in dark conditions, but up to 97 for sunny days. The only problem is the "twilight" conditions that tend to step the contrast around 63-65. This creates a noticeable "blinking" in brightness. Fortunately this happens so rarely that I ignore it.
     
  24. chambeaj

    chambeaj
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    Would be interested to get an idea of how many 9986/9830 owners have be into the service menu and dropped the luma gain from 1 to 0?

    If so did it have an effect on the backlight output? and does it make a difference regardless of source (i.e. one poster suggested it only affects the RF input - is this correct or not?)!!
     

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