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8.5GB Dual Layer 2x-4x DVD-R

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Johndm, Jun 26, 2005.

  1. Johndm

    Johndm
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    After a DVD ROM meltdown, I now have a nice new LG Dual Layer (Multi Format) 16x Writer installed in my Pee Cee... :smashin:

    So where can I get some DVD-R Dual Layer discs??

    Managed to get just ONE Verbatim 8.5GB Dual Layer 2x-4x DVD-R from Ebay, but can't find any in shops. :thumbsdow

    Anyone found a supplier?

    regards
     
  2. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    If it is a LG 4163B then it does Double Layer +R. Dual Layer is for -R. Dual Layer isn't really out that much at the moment.

    I get Datasafes by Ritek from Blankdiscshop. They are around £2 each whereas, Verbatim (one of the best) are £4 each.

    Double Layer +R's
     
  3. Johndm

    Johndm
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    So have I misread the box... :confused:

    I thought it would record DVD-R dual layer???
     
  4. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    Some people call Double Layer, Dual Layer. It can be confusing. Is it the 4163 you have?

    Write Speeds:
    DVD+R: 16x
    DVD+R DL: 4x
    DVD-R: 16x
    DVD+RW: 8x
    DVD-RW: 6x
    DVD-RAM: 3x-5x
    CD-R: 40x
    CD-RW: 24x

    I believe the upcoming 4165 (few months off) will do DL-R.
     
  5. musukebba

    musukebba
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    Most people call it double layer (DL) to avoid confusion with 'dual format' (+/-) drives.

    SVP have some 4x DVD -R DL, as well as the DVD +R DL.
     
  6. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    They seem to have had some more since the last time I looked. They still have DL-R in the double layer section. Even that can be misleading if you don't know the difference.
     
  7. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Yup....its the GSA-4163B

    Looks like i've ordered an incorrect disc then?? (Verbatim 8.5GB Dual Layer 2x-4x DVD-R DL)... :thumbsdow

    So i guess i need 8.5gb dual layer DVD+R DL?

    If this is correct, can i transfer from a 'finalized' DVD-R to DVD+R on my computer, (the second drive is a Pioneer DVD read/write), and does the computer 'finalize' the DVD+R to make it playable in my Panasonic DMR E60?

    Getting very confused now..... :confused:
     
  8. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Yes you can. If you simply want to copy a project between DVD-/+R or even then it is simply a case of using a programme such as DVD Decrypter (discontinued but still downloadable here and there) to copy your original onto your PC HDD before using a burning programme (such as Nero) to burn it to the new disc. The process is described in this guide.

    If you want to archive from DVD-R/+R to DVD+R DL or DVD-R DL then again you can use DVD Decrypter. Have a look at this guide on how to use your Panasonic DVDR to best effect when archiving onto dual layer media on a PC.
     
  9. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    Yes.
     
  10. Johndm

    Johndm
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    :smashin:
     
  11. Johndm

    Johndm
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    So, I got a couple of TDK DVD+R Double Layer Discs.

    Fired up DVD Shrink, and set it to 8.5gb disc, No compression, and tried to make a backup copy of my Apollo 13 Special edition DVD.

    One hour 11 mins later, the disc was done, and transferred into my Panny E60.

    :eek:

    It just loops through the menu, nuffin else plays.. :confused:

    Back into the Puter, it plays in the new LG GSA-4163B drive, but NOT in the slightly older Pioneer R/W drive.

    Any ideas why it won't play on anything but the drive used for recording it?

    regards
     
  12. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    First of all you don't need Shrink to do it. Get DVD Decypter and do a ISO image read and write. It should only take around 45 minutes for 2.4x.

    Some Panny Recorders (like the HS2 and E50) don't like DVD+ unless it is bitsetted to DVD ROM. My Pioneer 109 does this automatically with DVD+R DL. I think the LG does it as well.
     
  13. El_JimBob

    El_JimBob
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    Sorry to butt in - a few days ago i attempted burning my first DVD+R DL with my LG 4120B thru DVD Decrypter.

    After it had finished, it scanned the disc and found hundreds of errors around the point where the layer break comes into effect - disc plays fine in my PC, but will only play up to the layer break in my Tosh XS32, before it spits it out.
    I had bitsetting as DVD-ROM, and both the LG and the Tosh confirmed that this was the case, but obviously the disc is buggered.

    Any idea where things are going wrong?
     
  14. musukebba

    musukebba
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    As a general rule, DVD recorders are not great at playing back +R DL discs even when they're bitset to DVD-ROM. It's a bit of a lottery as to which will work past the layer break.

    Many reports suggest that even the cheapest of the cheap DVD players (~£25) are far more likely to handle these discs.
     
  15. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Well, having trashed a £6 disc with Shrink.....do I attempt another with Decrypter, or just give up.... :eek:

    Maybe I'll just use dual layer discs for data backup....
     
  16. El_JimBob

    El_JimBob
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    Methinks it's reasons like this why the format hasn't exactly 'taken off'....

    John, did you check your DL disc for errors - i'd be interested to know what you find....
     
  17. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Whats the quickest way to check the disc?
     
  18. El_JimBob

    El_JimBob
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  19. musukebba

    musukebba
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    The PC detectable errors may be irrelevant if your DVD recorder can't cope with the reduced reflectivity of the second layer.

    Unless you have a separate DVD player, unfortunately more attempts are probably fruitless.

    BTW SVPs +R DL discs (Ritek dye) can be had for around £2.30 each if you buy 10.
     
  20. Ryu

    Ryu
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  21. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    I am paying around £2 for Riteks. SVP (blankdiscshop) do Verbatim which are considered the best are less than £4.

    One of the problems is DL+R and especially -R (only just come out) is new and if the player is just a few years old. Then, there is no gurantee it will work. New players now should be more compatible as the spec is available. There should be more chance of a DL+R working than -R as it has been around for over a year. The other thing to remember is not all players like all dyes. I have seen the Verbatims work on one machine but don't like Ritek dye. I have recently found out that the LG 4163 does like Verbatim discs.

    I have done numerous Ritek backups and they all work fine. I have tested them in Sony NS900, Sony NS585, Pioneer 350 (that is a old one) and a Pioneer 575. I have run the discs though DVDinfoPro and not one error has turned up when doing a read error test.

    The best way, to do a exact 1:1 copy is DVD Decrypter ISO read and write mode. I have had success with using Nero to burn ripped files from DVD Decrypter as well.
     
  22. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Had another go............

    Used DVD Decrypter, ISO read/write with verify, Book type set to DVD+R DL media, DVD-ROM.

    Disc used, TDK DVD+R Double Layer, 2.4x speed.

    Went for the 'full monty', tried to make a backup of a R1 RCE disc.

    Seems to have worked fine, although I've only skipped through the chapters to the end of the movie so far. No errors reported after verify either.

    Great, now the original can stay firmly in its case avoiding dust and fingerprints.

    Although expensive, I will backup my 'most used' movies.....shame they have to come out of the cellophane to backup... :D

    As suggested in the other thread, the backup copy will only play in my older Panny RV-81.....my DMR E60 recorder won't touch it!

    Guess I'll try another brand of disc...Verbatim maybe????

    Cheers guys

    :smashin:
     
  23. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    Glad it works.

    You did the right test. If it skipsk to the end of the film then the layer change went ok. I usually like to watch the layer change happen to make sure it works playing back in real time.
     
  24. Loobster

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    The reflectivity of double-layer disks is significantly lower (at least for the second layer) than single-layer writeable media. This is why a lot of players/recorders won't play them. There's not necessarily any problem with the techniques used for burning (although having a firmware installed that does bitsetting for you can't hurt).

    My Pioneer DVD recorder came out a year after DVD+R DL and still won't play the disks. Yet my Yamada 6600 plays them perfectly.

    My advice is not to bother, unless you have money to burn. How many times do you watch the extras on a DVD anyway? For my backups I bin them off and just re-author the main movie in DVDShrink, usually the movie ends up at over 80% quality or more, which can hardly be distinguised from the original - and all on a disk that costs 1/10 or less of a DL blank.

    --Loob.
     
  25. musukebba

    musukebba
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    Exactly. And it'll play on your DVD recorder.
     
  26. Johndm

    Johndm
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    Seems like Shrink is the cheaper option......so far.

    Guess we will soon be trashing all our recorders/players/skyboxes/digiboxes/TV's..........AND our entire collection of discs anyway..

    HD anyone.. :D
     
  27. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    For me it isn't about extras. It is about watching the film at the original quality and keeping the original safe. I am using projector with a 80" screen.

    The last disc I did was House of Flying Daggers. The shrinked version at 25% compression (75% in Shrink) looks fine on a TV (no DTS as it is full bitrate at 1.5GB). Once, I compared it to my DL backup on the same screen, I noticed the picture was not very good. I can also watch it in DTS as well and my original is kept safe. I rather spend £2 on a disc than ruin my original.

    The discs also plays fine on my Panasonic HS2.

    I am expecting DL-R to be not very good as they don't even have bitsetting for more compatibility. A recent test on CDFreaks website came up with the same.
     
  28. bradavon78

    bradavon78
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    I'm sure they're the same and just a different name for the same thing.

    Officially the format is dual layer but some idiot decided to use the term dual meaning it could write + and - so double's been used to save confusion (where it shouldn't have occurred in the first place).
     
  29. musukebba

    musukebba
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    So as a non-idiot, what would your naming suggestion have been? There's nothing 'official' about the naming, only alliance terminology for marketing purposes.

    This issue has been debated with some insight elsewhere (eg here).

    Why don't we just settle for 'DL' with the appropriate '±R' prefix.
     
  30. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    Double layer and Dual Layer are different and not the same thing. They are both two layers but, one is given to +R and one to -R.

    My Pioneer 109 writes to DL+R and DL-R.

    Specs (from SVP)

    DVD-R 16X CAV
    DVD-R DL (Dual Layer) 4X CLV
    DVD-RW 6X CLV
    +R 16X CAV
    +R DL (Double Layer) 4X CLV
    +RW 8X Z-CLV
    CD-R 40X CAV
    CD-RW 24X CAV

    I have since upgraded the firmware to get 6x with DL-R.

    The LG 4163 can only do DL+R. The upcoming LG 4165 will do both.

    Also, Verbatim Dual Layer-R pic

    http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/11758

    and Verbatim Double Layer+R pic

    http://store1.yimg.com/I/meritline_1849_29167864

    DL+R will be best in teh short term as it has bitsetting. Tests has found that not many players (particularly older ones) work with DL-R. I would expect DL-R with new players to be ok as the DL-R specs was only finalised a short time ago.
     

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