7m in UK 'use illegal downloads'

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The economy is losing tens of billions of pounds to illegal file-sharing, government advisors say.
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Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
I'm sick of hearing what imo, is the same old rot.

The latest report for the SABIP, said the new generation of broadband access at 50Mbps could deliver 200 MP3 files in five minutes, a DVD in three and the complete digitised works of Charles Dickens in less than 10.

Is utter rubbish and laughable in the real world.

The fact is that if people can't get it for free they probably won't bother at all.
And of some who do download, they'll want the genuine article.

And blaming the ISPs is like blaming petrol stations for when someone deliberately sets their house on fire imo :thumbsdow
 

Miss Chief

Distinguished Member
I always hate the suggestion that the number of downloads=the number of people that would have bought the album if it weren't available free. I had no intention of going to see Spiderman at the cinema, I've never been a huge Spidy fan. For my shame I did download a dvd rip of it when it came on DVD. I enjoyed it and went to see Spidy 2 at the cinema. Would this have happened if I hadn't seen it at all? Of course not. I also downloaded a Lostprophets CD as I liked a couple of songs and liked the album so bought it. i'd have probably avoided it if I hadn't listened first. Sometimes being able to listen and/or view first can be a GOOD thing.

There are those out there that wil willingly download all they can and not pay for anything if they can get away with it but to my mind those are in the minority.

I also now have the Spiderman trilogy on Blu-Ray, although I got them free from Sony!
 

Croker

Member
Cretinous BBC journalist said:
The latest report for the SABIP, said the new generation of broadband access at 50Mbps could deliver 200 MP3 files in five minutes, a DVD in three and the complete digitised works of Charles Dickens in less than 10.

This is what annoys me about these kinds of articles - they're so sloppily written. In an article entitled "7m in UK 'use illegal downloads'", they make reference to being able to download all of Dickens' work. Whilst it may not have been their intention to do so, they've made that sound like an illegal act, when it's a fact that Dickens' work is in the public domain, and hence can be downloaded perfectly legally, gratis.

Clowns.
 

invisiblekid

Distinguished Member
This is what annoys me about these kinds of articles - they're so sloppily written. In an article entitled "7m in UK 'use illegal downloads'", they make reference to being able to download all of Dickens' work. Whilst it may not have been their intention to do so, they've made that sound like an illegal act, when it's a fact that Dickens' work is in the public domain, and hence can be downloaded perfectly legally, gratis.

Clowns.
:rotfl:

Change the record people! This news is getting so old and so full of rubbish. As above posters have said, people who download would mainly not buy the the film etc anyways!! This is not LOOSING money figures. It's not MAKING money figures, there is a world of difference.

Anything that I have downloaded has been for one reason. To get it months before the UK release. I'm not talking films, since most are compressed to fit on a single layer DVD. Hardly the best thing when watching on a large screen. But TV stuff I have gotten, and always bought after ( I'm a huge collector ).

You want to reduce illegal downloads, just stop the stupid time delays and have world wide releases. I would love to see the illegal download figures for the Star Trek film as this had minimal release differences, if any.
Oh and stop telling everyone how popular illegal downing is. The more people you say are doing it, the more it seems to be the norm and more people start. But I just don't believe 7m actually download, maybe downloads AND people who BUY illegally, but not 7m downloading alone.
 
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paulst10

Distinguished Member
Oh and stop telling everyone how popular illegal downing is. The more people you say are doing it, the more it seems to be the norm and more people start.

Yes stop glamorizng the fact by publishing pointless (old) news in the papers etc!

Studios keeping a tighter grip over workprints, and being more selective over who recieves DVD screeners may be a good place to start also ;)

If they really want to minimise the piracy, then reduce the admission fee in cinemas, don't charge extra for the use of 3D glasses in a 3D film that is the way the movie is supposed to be presented why should we pay more ? you don't charge extra to sit down do you ?, worldwide releases of all BD/DVD titles no-longer than 6 weeks after cinema release .. those who want to see on the big screen will, those who want to wait for a disk won't be tempted by viewing a dodgy copy a month before DVD release (which in most cases nowadays are not dodgy but are direct rips from the official DVD), and those who want to watch the utter crap 'recorded in the cinema with a video camera' copies .. if they are happy watching a ropey copy like that, then let them :rolleyes:

And one more thing, stop putting bloody anti-piracy adverts on official DVD releases .. I am absolutely sick of seeing them. Even worse are the one's you are forced to sit through and are unable to ff, chapter search through :thumbsdow

Very apt to that topic ;)
YouTube - U.K. Anti-Piracy Advert - Parody of this annoying trailer!
 
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Gerry

Active Member
Exactly, and when one does go to the cinema don't charge a tenner for a coke and popcorn!
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I stick my head above the parapet here and doubtless have it blown off :)

First and foremost I will say that developers/distributors are not helping themselves. The ever increasing DRM we are seeing in our movies and games does little to stop piracy and probably increases it as people seek to use both without restrictions. Release dates that aren't synchronised around the world and treating of some markets as 'second class' doesn't help either.

However I am firmly against illegal file-sharing. I think too many people wheel out the same tired old excuses - they are charging too much for the retail version, DRM means I am boycotting, I am just trying before buying. All hollow excuses because ultimately the downloader knows they can get something for nothing so will. It viewed as a victimless crime - and I suppose it is - whether Fox, Universal, Microsoft, Sony etc etc make a little less profit doesn't directly effect any of us. Yet it does indirectly effect us - if movies/games/music don't generate the expected revenues there will be changes.

I suppose the question then is what changes will occur. On a positive side maybe the distrubters/developers will adapt to new delivery options. We have seen this with the normalisation of digitial distribution of music and now video. On the negative side will piracy mean they stop making movies/games? No of course not! But it could encourage a reduced range of content.

I guess I am a little boring on this subject and I doubt anyone enjoying 'free' content will agree with me. But I really am concerned that illegal downloading is now at such a scale it will negatively impact upon the content on offer. IMHO anyway.
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
I stick my head above the parapet here and doubtless have it blown off :)

First and foremost I will say that developers/distributors are not helping themselves. The ever increasing DRM we are seeing in our movies and games does little to stop piracy and probably increases it as people seek to use both without restrictions. Release dates that aren't synchronised around the world and treating of some markets as 'second class' doesn't help either.

However I am firmly against illegal file-sharing. I think too many people wheel out the same tired old excuses - they are charging too much for the retail version, DRM means I am boycotting, I am just trying before buying. All hollow excuses because ultimately the downloader knows they can get something for nothing so will. It viewed as a victimless crime - and I suppose it is - whether Fox, Universal, Microsoft, Sony etc etc make a little less profit doesn't directly effect any of us. Yet it does indirectly effect us - if movies/games/music don't generate the expected revenues there will be changes.

I suppose the question then is what changes will occur. On a positive side maybe the distrubters/developers will adapt to new delivery options. We have seen this with the normalisation of digitial distribution of music and now video. On the negative side will piracy mean they stop making movies/games? No of course not! But it could encourage a reduced range of content.

I guess I am a little boring on this subject and I doubt anyone enjoying 'free' content will agree with me. But I really am concerned that illegal downloading is now at such a scale it will negatively impact upon the content on offer. IMHO anyway.

I really don't think so.
IMO, any fair, decent, honest person will always be willing to pay what they think is fair. Of course, there are many people who are genuinely skint and will always D/L for free and in that case, I say fair play to them, as they don't have any choice.

The trouble is so much of the stuff being released is utter garbage and a total waste of money. My view is, if the big companies are going to foist rubbish on us and basically have us over, they deserve some of their own medicine.

That said, the major point is that the companies are not adapting. As fast as the companies bring out encrytion or whatever, so it gets broken. And it's simply not going to work. They can change tack and target people (disgraceful, given they work off IP addresses alone), but it still doesn't work.

They simply have to come up with another way of working and this will be digital downloading. It has to be. They can charge, say £3-5 and you'll only get it for 24 hours. Indeed, it's already happening. What a nice cash cow.
The only trouble is some smartass will probably find a way round that too.

Much better to come up with something more innovative along the lines of spotify, imo :smashin:

I totally accept there are probably a few flaws in my arguments, but there you go :)
 

Helicon

Banned
The trouble is so much of the stuff being released is utter garbage and a total waste of money. My view is, if the big companies are going to foist rubbish on us and basically have us over, they deserve some of their own medicine.
Hear hear.

Hopefully it will make them think about offering value for money and a quality product in the first place.
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
Hear hear.

Hopefully it will make them think about offering value for money and a quality product in the first place.

Hey, cheers mate :smashin:
It's not often we agree is it? :D

I'd also go a bit further and say stop adding crap such as commentary and bonus (?) features, to justify the price.
But I realise many people like that stuff.
God knows why, imo :confused:
I just want to see the film, with the best soundtrack from the off.
 

gandley

Well-known Member
more likly this is pure propaganda to bring in the ever nearing internet 2 that will be under total control and the days of free internet gone. it will happen and some people wont even question it because they will buy in to this rubbish.

the internet will get a shake up soon and it wont be for our good.:mad:
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
more likly this is pure propaganda to bring in the ever nearing internet 2 that will be under total control and the days of free internet gone. it will happen and some people wont even question it because they will buy in to this rubbish.

the internet will get a shake up soon and it wont be for our good.:mad:

I never thought about that.
And yes you're right. The powers-that-be must hate the thought that they're not totally in control.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
I really don't think so.
IMO, any fair, decent, honest person will always be willing to pay what they think is fair.

...

The trouble is so much of the stuff being released is utter garbage and a total waste of money.
You have alot more faith in people than I do! Whilst I don't doubt that the above is true for many on this forum, I think if the vast majority can get something for free then they will. Arguing that something is "garbage" and not worth paying doesn't really hold does it - it's clearly something people want to watch/play otherwise it wouldn't be pirated! I mean do any of the 'illegal' download sources have stuff we wouldn't regard as garbage? i.e. are pirated versions of "reference" movies and games available? Of course they are!

Of course there has always been piracy and there always will - it's a fact of life. But the scale of it has to be terrifying - I'm surprised it is as low as 7 million - I would have thought it would be double that. And it's not just the scale - it is the acceptance. If you argue against file sharing you quickly find yourself in a tiny minority - the vast majority of the internet community regard it as something perfectly acceptable to circumvent paying.
 

Deemac

Standard Member
I for one believe the main problem is the cost of the legal material being put out. I got into bluray about a year ago and am shocked at the bumped up prices that are being asked for most new releases. There are very, very few films that I am prepared to pay £18 - £21 for.

Now if this was £8 - £12 I would buy lots more movies and end up spending lots more overall. I feel Bluray take-up would be vastly higher and once the punters started to see the wonderful quality that this format has to offer the incentive to watch a terrible low quality download would be far less.

I too am also sick of being forced to sit through these dire warnings at the start of EVERY movie tellling me that I will go to jail and be fined millions of dollars if I even think about trying to copy a film. It just make me feel like a criminal when I have actually paid for a product!!
 

thefragile

Well-known Member
I agree with a lot of whats being said here.....

there is a reason people download stuff....... mainly because it costs too much to buy it, a few years ago we were hearing about people banging on about how downloading was ruining the music industry, now this happens a lot less becuase of the cheap cd's on play and cd wow etc...... its time the movie industry followed suit and started giving fans a fairer deal....

As far as tv programs go, i only download lost, its the only program i like on sky and im not prepared to pay £250 per year for a television service that is dominated by generic american 'love' shows and has adverts every 5 mins or so.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
I agree with a lot of whats being said here.....

there is a reason people download stuff....... mainly because it costs too much to buy it,

To sum up, it's simple, the movie industry makes billions in profit churning out the same old crap .. be it a sequel/prequel, or ideas that are no-longer original and have been used many a time in various movies before .. it's getting very tedious. It's quite clear that these sequels (in most cases) only exist because of the success/profits made from the previous movie :thumbsdow

I am starting to believe that every topic has been done before and nothing is original anymore (with the exception of epic/true stories) :( But we are still expected to pay a premium for these substandard movies .. can't wait for Pirates of the Caribbean 4 :clap: :thumbsdow

So, yes, prices need to come down, cinema admissions, rrp's of BD & DVD, and Studios need to start showing some respect to their customers instead of sticking 2 fingers up at us and initially giving us **** poor releases lacking extra's etc! of substandard movies :lesson:
 

millerlfc

Active Member
While I do admit to downloading tv series and old films sometimes so I can watch them on the train, I don't do music or (new) films - and I always delete after watching. I justify this to myself as I could watch it on tv for nothing. (As tv ratings are calculated from a few homes in the UK with the appropriate boxes it makes no difference what I watch). With music and recent films there's no real excuse not to buy them - £8 for a new CD? Bargain! Go to the cinema on Orange Wednesdays and it's only about £3.75 per person - or only 1000 nectar points - or when it's released on DVD wait a couple of months and pick it up for £5.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
I stick my head above the parapet here and doubtless have it blown off :)

First and foremost I will say that developers/distributors are not helping themselves. The ever increasing DRM we are seeing in our movies and games does little to stop piracy and probably increases it as people seek to use both without restrictions. Release dates that aren't synchronised around the world and treating of some markets as 'second class' doesn't help either.

However I am firmly against illegal file-sharing. I think too many people wheel out the same tired old excuses - they are charging too much for the retail version, DRM means I am boycotting, I am just trying before buying. All hollow excuses because ultimately the downloader knows they can get something for nothing so will. It viewed as a victimless crime - and I suppose it is - whether Fox, Universal, Microsoft, Sony etc etc make a little less profit doesn't directly effect any of us. Yet it does indirectly effect us - if movies/games/music don't generate the expected revenues there will be changes.

I suppose the question then is what changes will occur. On a positive side maybe the distrubters/developers will adapt to new delivery options. We have seen this with the normalisation of digitial distribution of music and now video. On the negative side will piracy mean they stop making movies/games? No of course not! But it could encourage a reduced range of content.

I guess I am a little boring on this subject and I doubt anyone enjoying 'free' content will agree with me. But I really am concerned that illegal downloading is now at such a scale it will negatively impact upon the content on offer. IMHO anyway.




I quite agree.

I do not defend some of the excesses of the studios/record companies, but what has that got to do with it?

Tesco make a fortune - so is it okay for me to shoplift from them?

Morrissons are behind the times, and have not developed on-line shopping - so is it okay to shoplift from them?

Heinz make a fortune from Baked Beans, and the brand is just a licence to print money (trotting out the same, tired old product with a slight twist every now and then - BBQ flavour, etc), so does that make it okay to steal any item from any manafacturer, no matter how new their set up?

Whatever the record companies do wrong is no excuse for taking something for free, when it's cost them money to produce it.

I frankly don't care how many times Sgt Pepper has been re-packageed. If you don't want to buy it, don't bother buying it. But don't use the fact that you can see a re-issue as a money-spinner as an excuse for theft.

Yes, these companies should sort their acts out...but largely they have. You can now buy virtually anything you like online. What about Spotify? There really is no excuse.

Steve W
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Tesco make a fortune - so is it okay for me to shoplift from them?

Morrissons are behind the times, and have not developed on-line shopping - so is it okay to shoplift from them?

There is no excuse for stealing full stop, but that's not to say it doesn't go on, Tesco & Morrisons will no doubt suffer along similar lines regarding theft .. that's why there are security staff in those places ;)

Unfortunately piracy has been around since VHS and maybe even before ? the studios have done very little to prevent it, fair enough they put copy protection etc! on disks only for someone to crack, but unless they realise some people simply see optical media as too overpriced (and they are considering manufacturing costs) there will always be piracy issues :(

Shame they cannot adopt a 'lower the price but sell more' strategy, instead they insist on keeping prices high, sell fewer and run the risk of loosing profit to piracy :(
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
But we are still expected to pay a premium for these substandard movies ..
To be fair we aren't expected to pay for anything. We choose to go and see the movies that are made and, based on our choices, the studios make more in the same theme.

I'd be interested to know if there was a real link between quality of the product and piracy though. If most of the downloaders are to be believed if something is of very high quality it will not be pirated. I am struggling to think of any examples where this has been the case - indeed it's probably the other way around. When something generates a 'buzz' it gets ripped off on an epic scale.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Unfortunately piracy has been around since VHS and maybe even before ?
Entirely agree - piracy will always be with us in some form or another - but I think what is different now is the scale. In the 80s I suspect you needed to go down to the dodgy car boat sale or market to get such items. I dare say the bulk of the so-called middle classes who spend so much of their surplus incomes on media, would not venture to such locations. Now though it is done by everyone - supposedly Middle Class people who wouldn't dream of stealing or commiting low level crime will happily download. The loss of income both to the studios and government will need to made good somewhere - whether that is the quality of the overall product, a change to distribution measures or a mix remains to be seen.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Shame they cannot adopt a 'lower the price but sell more' strategy, instead they insist on keeping prices high, sell fewer and run the risk of loosing profit to piracy :(
Do you think price is directly related to piracy? Sick of waiting for the Blu-ray, I purchased the DVD of Schindler's List at the weekend. I paid £5 for it - yet a quick check reveals over a dozen versions can be illegally downloaded now with active users in the process of doing so. Is the film too expensive? Is it too 'crap' for people to pay for?
 

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