77'' OLED vs 100'' Projector Showdown

sim12

Active Member
All of this talk of the Lumagen is making me want to jump from LLDV tone mapping on my X9500 using a Vertex2.

I need to stop reading mb3195's posts now, he's making me want to buy a Lumagen Radiance Pro and I keep telling myself the Vertex2 is doing a nice job :laugh:
Perhaps the open day would help or not:laugh:
 

CaroleBaskin

Active Member
That would be an expensive day out for me. I mean the Lumagen is one cost, seeing it paired with the Sony 760es is quite another. Living in ignorance will do me just fine (until the next itch).

I'm sure it looks sublime though and what a gent for having an open day like that.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
All of this talk of the Lumagen is making me want to jump from LLDV tone mapping on my X9500 using a Vertex2.

I need to stop reading mb3195's posts now, he's making me want to buy a Lumagen Radiance Pro and I keep telling myself the Vertex2 is doing a nice job :laugh:

9500 and lumagen would make a stunning image 👍🏻
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
After a few days with the 77'' OLED, I can't help but miss the impact and immersion of the bigger projector screen.

Yes, the PQ is perfect but the cinema experience isn't as much there. For video games, I feel its leagues ahead but for films, I feel like something is missing at times.

If I had a bigger room and could treat it, I think I'd honestly just get a JVC NX5/7 and call it a day.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Here you go mate, this review has just been posted in Australia on the Lumagen. Worth a read to hear from an independent expert.



TBH I trust everything you say as at the end of the day, you have Arendal speakers so our tastes must align :D


I trust that in that the overall impact of a good video processor with a good projector in a treated room produces spectacular results that nears the OLED level of HDR. Sure we might not get real HDR specular highlight detail and brightness but who cares.

I find in HDR on the OLED, its striking to begin with but you get used to it very quickly. The specular brightness isn't the biggest pro of HDR, it is clearly the tone mapping and increased colour space. And with a capable projector with an excellent black floor (JVC/Sony), its possible to get spectacular results.
 
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mb3195

Distinguished Member
TBH I trust everything you say as at the end of the day, you have Arendal speakers so our tastes must align :D


I trust that in that the overall impact of a good video processor with a good projector in a treated room produces spectacular results that nears the OLED level of HDR. Sure we might not get real HDR specular highlight detail and brightness but who cares.

I find in HDR on the OLED, its striking to begin with but you get used to it very quickly. The specular brightness isn't the biggest pro of HDR, it is clearly the tone mapping and increased colour space. And with a capable projector with an excellent black floor (JVC/Sony), its possible to get spectacular results.

It really is mate. Why don’t you try and make my open day next month so you can see it in action.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
It really is mate. Why don’t you try and make my open day next month so you can see it in action.

Thanks mate. I'll check the dates.. Sadly work is probably going to be busy and I'm on a new rota which involves a lot of nights so I'm going to safely assume it will fall on one of those on-calls, as every good events seems to.

I'm now contemplating whether to go from 77 inch OLED to an 85inch cheaper LCD if my replacement OLED panel still has banding (something none of my projectors ever had :D.. another point to PJs).
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
Thanks mate. I'll check the dates.. Sadly work is probably going to be busy and I'm on a new rota which involves a lot of nights so I'm going to safely assume it will fall on one of those on-calls, as every good events seems to.

I'm now contemplating whether to go from 77 inch OLED to an 85inch cheaper LCD if my replacement OLED panel still has banding (something none of my projectors ever had :D.. another point to PJs).

Hi

I do think with an 85” TV, any potential issues around banding etc are only going to be more pronounced than on a 77”. Are you thinking of returning the OLED now then? Would you go for another 9400?
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
PS I would also say that if you get an 85”, that is the size of TV that feels to me would be near impossible to shift if you decide to sell it down the line, or you move house etc. That is one massive TV!
 

iamsludge

Active Member
Kenshingintoki, I think I might be of a similar mind to you.

I finally got a 4K HDR TV last Xmas.

I have recently tried watching some 4k HDR movies on the tv and whilst the picture is fantastic, for me it’s not a movie experience due to the vast size difference. For example, my son always sees the projector as a major treat even after growing up with it and us using it with him at least every weekend. Even for him a movie on the TV is not a movie.

I watched Joker on my old JVC X3 1080p and then the UHD version the following night on the 4K TV. Totally different experiences, and I preferred the HD projector to the UHD TV.

But for games I’ve found that I just don’t game on the projector at all anymore, the TV is far superior for that and tv shows.

Now if I couldn’t project such a big image and was restricted to choosing between 77” TV or 100” projector with a fixed and equivalent budget it would be a much harder choice for me. In a room that is constrained so much that I felt the need for an ALR screen I would be much more likely go the TV route. Maybe until I thought about missing my 3D movies ;)

To be honest, when last buying a house the top priority was a room big enough for my projector which speaks volumes about me.

If you have 20k to spend and a dedicated room then a projector based setup is likely hands down the route to go.

As our budget and room options change we have to get the best we can within the limits we have and some of this will be down to our preferences and behaviours.

If you have a 5k budget with a dedicated batcave, and if you only watch movies then JVC N5 is probably your answer.

Similarly if gaming is more important, movies are rare and you don’t have a dedicated room then the TV will be most suited.

When it comes to home-cinema, especially with projectors the room is always very important. If you put a 20k projector in the wrong room it will behave like a 1k projector.

If you have a compromised room, a limited budget and indulge in gaming, tv and movies equally then you are back to the original quandry likely needing both tv and projector and ultimately having a compromised experience too.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hi

I do think with an 85” TV, any potential issues around banding etc are only going to be more pronounced than on a 77”. Are you thinking of returning the OLED now then? Would you go for another 9400?


Graham, that did pass through my mind.

The 9400 would also tickle my love for 3D. I'm just not sure what will give a better PQ. An 85'' £2000-£2500LCD or the Epson 9400.

I'm trying to weigh up DLP 3D projector + 85 inch TV or Epson 9400. I will say that the summer and the fact its always light out until 10PM has made me miss the projector less and less.


My idea of going for an LCD would be going for a significantly cheaper LCD, and therefore putting up with the imperfections. However I haven't had a bad LCD TV in a while. I'm not sure what they can and can't do. Like can they even do fade to black? I honestly can't remember. The ones I see in work look absolutely awful but I assume.. they're like.. 15 years old.


Don't get me wrong, hope my LG OLED problem sorts itself out. :)
Then I'll just look into a good 3D projector.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Kenshingintoki, I think I might be of a similar mind to you.

I finally got a 4K HDR TV last Xmas.

I have recently tried watching some 4k HDR movies on the tv and whilst the picture is fantastic, for me it’s not a movie experience due to the vast size difference. For example, my son always sees the projector as a major treat even after growing up with it and us using it with him at least every weekend. Even for him a movie on the TV is not a movie.

I watched Joker on my old JVC X3 1080p and then the UHD version the following night on the 4K TV. Totally different experiences, and I preferred the HD projector to the UHD TV.

But for games I’ve found that I just don’t game on the projector at all anymore, the TV is far superior for that and tv shows.

Now if I couldn’t project such a big image and was restricted to choosing between 77” TV or 100” projector with a fixed and equivalent budget it would be a much harder choice for me. In a room that is constrained so much that I felt the need for an ALR screen I would be much more likely go the TV route. Maybe until I thought about missing my 3D movies ;)

To be honest, when last buying a house the top priority was a room big enough for my projector which speaks volumes about me.

If you have 20k to spend and a dedicated room then a projector based setup is likely hands down the route to go.

As our budget and room options change we have to get the best we can within the limits we have and some of this will be down to our preferences and behaviours.

If you have a 5k budget with a dedicated batcave, and if you only watch movies then JVC N5 is probably your answer.

Similarly if gaming is more important, movies are rare and you don’t have a dedicated room then the TV will be most suited.

When it comes to home-cinema, especially with projectors the room is always very important. If you put a 20k projector in the wrong room it will behave like a 1k projector.

If you have a compromised room, a limited budget and indulge in gaming, tv and movies equally then you are back to the original quandry likely needing both tv and projector and ultimately having a compromised experience too.


You've described a lot of what I've experienced. I've found for games, the projector falls apart compared to a TV. They are multiple tiers apart. However for films.. you're right, its a treat, its an experience, people want to get the popcorn out.

With the 77'' it hasn't been that. My sister and I sat down and watched Moana. She enjoyed it.

But when we watched films on the Epson, she would always say thats the best film experience Ive ever had (No doubt partly due to a subwoofer and Arendal speakers but still).



Ideally I'd have a 77 inch OLED for Games +/- the odd TV and a projector for films and the TV shows which feel right on a projector.

I am considering one of the 4k optoma projectors just for 3D... but then part of me thinks why not spend a bit more and get the Epson.. but the another part of me thinks wait it out.. spend less.. and then spend more in a years time when JVC release their new line of PJs.

I'm only projecting 90-100 inches though.. so an 85inch TV really is very close to that size....

Any thoughts?


I have a draper ALR screen but despite trying to convince, I cannot treat my current home theatre room... and TBH.. i get where they'coming from as it is the second/third sitting room.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
PS I would also say that if you get an 85”, that is the size of TV that feels to me would be near impossible to shift if you decide to sell it down the line, or you move house etc. That is one massive TV!


Great point as well.

I did think that selling an Epson 9400 in a years time will be very easy but selling an 85 inch LG or Sony TV is going to be difficult. I'd probably just gift it to my parents though if that was the case or another family member.
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
@kenshingintoki I think dimming zones would be an issue with an 85” LED that isn’t hugely expensive. Do Samsung do a full array 82” now? I know Sony do an 85” but I’m not sure how many zones it has.

As the 77” OLED is nearly as much as a JVC N5, could you stretch to that? You can get them under the RRP and they’re full 4K native with basically everything you could need aside from the last little bit of WCG.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Well I think dimming zones would be an issue with an 85” LED that isn’t hugely expensive. Do Samsung do a full array 82” now? I know Sony do an 85” but I’m not sure how many zones it has.

As the 77” OLED is nearly as much as a JVC N5, could you stretch to that? You can get them under the RRP and they’re full 4K native with basically everything you could need aside from the last little bit of WCG.


I think 82'' is too close to 77''. I'd have to go 85''. The TVs I've found for £2k which are 85 inches are edge lits.. I can't remember what an edge lit looks like and I'm not sure what it'd look like next to an Epson 9400.

My current room is too small for the JVC. The JVC will be a project for when I move house. Also my room isn't treated. I couldnt put a projector of that calibre into a white walled room. It would just be a bit silly on my part.
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
I think 82'' is too close to 77''. I'd have to go 85''. The TVs I've found for £2k which are 85 inches are edge lits.. I can't remember what an edge lit looks like and I'm not sure what it'd look like next to an Epson 9400.

My current room is too small for the JVC. The JVC will be a project for when I move house. Also my room isn't treated. I couldnt put a projector of that calibre into a white walled room. It would just be a bit silly on my part.

Ah yes of course, fair enough. In that case, I think it is maybe worth giving the 9400 another go. It isn’t 4K native but has all the other stuff. Or could you live with a 9300? That will be half the price probably for an ex demo unit, and still does HDR at 24hz. That might be enough with the TV to keep you happy on both counts. DLPs are impossible for me due to rainbow effect but also the contrast with those units is mostly very poor.

PS I think the Sony 85XH95 would be the one to look at if you were after that size of TV
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Ah yes of course, fair enough. In that case, I think it is maybe worth giving the 9400 another go. It isn’t 4K native but has all the other stuff. Or could you live with a 9300? That will be half the price probably for an ex demo unit, and still does HDR at 24hz. That might be enough with the TV to keep you happy on both counts. DLPs are impossible for me due to rainbow effect but also the contrast with those units is mostly very poor.

PS I think the Sony 85X95 would be the one to look at if you were after that size of TV


I can't find the 85X95 anywhere, only the 85X85 (costco £2k).

Graham you're not wrong.. everything really points me back towards the 9400 with the major selling point being the 3D. But people have told me DLP is the way to go with 3D. I'm not sure if a Sony X95/X85 + an optoma UVL51 or whatever its called will maybe suit me a bit more and allow for daytime viewing and 3D performance.

This is all planning.. if my LG OLED replacement comes back even more bandy lol.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
@kenshingintoki apologies it’s the XH95 / XH9505


Yeah £4000 is too expensive for an 85'' LCD for me at the moment.

If I go down the LCD route, I'd have to go cheap (aka the price of an Epsn 9400 or less) because I have t factor in that this display will have to be gifted to a family member or sold at a heavy loss within the next 12-24 months.

The attraction of a 77inch OLED is its an end game type display. Its big enough to always be relavant to gaming and its PQ is best in class.

the 85 inch LCD would just be a compromise in PQ and size until I can either get a good OLED down the line or a JVC projector.
 

iamsludge

Active Member
Any thoughts?

I have a draper ALR screen but despite trying to convince, I cannot treat my current home theatre room... and TBH.. i get where they'coming from as it is the second/third sitting room.

One thing I would add is that I like to keep a significant size difference between the TV and projected image to emphasis movies versus tv/gaming. So I’d be more inclined to go large projected image and moderate sized TV.

My room is not actually dedicated either, but I do put Devore on both the side walls and across the ceiling. It’s hung from white hooks near the ceiling (white because the walls are white). Across the ceiling the devore is only one roll width (about a metre I think) but the walls it runs about 12 feet. I keep thinking about doubling the ceiling devore depth (devore gets addictive). I sit about 14 feet back from the image next to the projector. It takes me less than 2 mins each night to put up and take down the devore velvet. Multiple dark grey ikea rugs on the floor keep it dark when it’s projector time and look good in daytime as the walls and ceiling are white. The back wall is about 16 feet behind the projector so no black back there.

I guess you could say I use Devore instead of an ALR screen.
 

sim12

Active Member
One thing I would add is that I like to keep a significant size difference between the TV and projected image to emphasis movies versus tv/gaming. So I’d be more inclined to go large projected image and moderate sized TV.

My room is not actually dedicated either, but I do put Devore on both the side walls and across the ceiling. It’s hung from white hooks near the ceiling (white because the walls are white). Across the ceiling the devore is only one roll width (about a metre I think) but the walls it runs about 12 feet. I keep thinking about doubling the ceiling devore depth (devore gets addictive). I sit about 14 feet back from the image next to the projector. It takes me less than 2 mins each night to put up and take down the devore velvet. Multiple dark grey ikea rugs on the floor keep it dark when it’s projector time and look good in daytime as the walls and ceiling are white. The back wall is about 16 feet behind the projector so no black back there.

I guess you could say I use Devore instead of an ALR screen.
I have all but the same setup in my front room, I don't always go the full hog side walls and ceiling but I do have a mvll22 velvet on a curtain rail that simply pulls across, I must say just a having a complete black wall for the pj screen to sit in alone makes a huge difference, perceived contrast etc.
 

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