77'' OLED vs 100'' Projector Showdown

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I think another point worth mentioning here is that in 100-16.9 projector screen vs 77 tv you can at a stretch argue the point, but let's be honest in reality the difference is hugh now if you where to go 100inch scope screen there literally is no comparison to be made the scope screen will dwarf the tv screen, but of course we talking about only watching movies at this point.


Again.. the debate is not in relationship to scope +/- bigger screens

I don't think anyone is arguing a 77'' panel of even microLED gold is going to be better than a 120'' scope screen..

Personally I'd rather have a 120'' 16:9 screen than a 100'' scope screen though... as I find more and more content seems to be 16:9, especially if you game, watch TV etc. And for those films which seem to switch aspect ratio.


I think people are trying to turn this into an OLED vs Projector debate. Its clear from the title I was trying to keep it to a 77'' vs 100'' projector debate because the 90-100'' range is a commonly used home theatre size in our country due to our smaller living spaces, and its a size where I think they are pretty close.

As I've stated before and before, if you're going for BIGGER than 100 inches, especially at the 120''+ range, a projector moves into a completely different class of size and immersion where regardless of PQ or HDR ability, its just a different ball game.

For those with rooms fairly big and dedicated, this really doesn't even apply.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
e.g. This couple's room I always found a bit weird:

OLED TV

Then 1 year later they upgraded to projector (see I use the word UPGRADED)
PROJECTOR .. and now its no longer weird.


If you can hit the big sizes of projection, trust me I'm the LAST person will try and defend a big commercially available OLED.



For a room as big as their's, I'd never ever consider a TV.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
^^ however, in their setup, given they have space above and below the screen, I would have just gotten the bigger 16:9 equivalent.

I think scope vs 16:9 screens, I'd always go for what you can fit in. If you can fit the 16:9 equivalent.. I'd personally always go for that. If however your wall isn't tall but is very wide.. then sure a scope makes more sense. In their case, I think they could have gotten the 16:9 equivalent and lens shifted if they REALLY hate black bars.
 

sim12

Active Member
Again.. the debate is not in relationship to scope +/- bigger screens

I don't think anyone is arguing a 77'' panel of even microLED gold is going to be better than a 120'' scope screen..

Personally I'd rather have a 120'' 16:9 screen than a 100'' scope screen though... as I find more and more content seems to be 16:9, especially if you game, watch TV etc. And for those films which seem to switch aspect ratio.


I think people are trying to turn this into an OLED vs Projector debate. Its clear from the title I was trying to keep it to a 77'' vs 100'' projector debate because the 90-100'' range is a commonly used home theatre size in our country due to our smaller living spaces, and its a size where I think they are pretty close.

As I've stated before and before, if you're going for BIGGER than 100 inches, especially at the 120''+ range, a projector moves into a completely different class of size and immersion where regardless of PQ or HDR ability, its just a different ball game.

For those with rooms fairly big and dedicated, this really doesn't even apply.
I'm a little confused here..
I never mentioned 120 inch screen, I merely stated in reality 100inch screen will dwarf a 77inch screen, that is fact your talking about roughly 2 ft of extra screen on top and on the sides, a little drawing comparison is nothing compared to real life comparison.

Yes I agree if primarily your viewing is tv and games then yes 16.9 but the vast majority of movies are filmed in 2.35-2.40 that is fact hence a scope screen

So for me my opinion is that a 77"tv simply cannot compete with a 100" pj screen they are 2 completely different experiences and then 100 scope screen is on another level still for movies.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I'm a little confused here..
I never mentioned 120 inch screen, I merely stated in reality 100inch screen will dwarf a 77inch screen, that is fact your talking about roughly 2 ft of extra screen on top and on the sides, a little drawing comparison is nothing compared to real life comparison.

Yes I agree if primarily your viewing is tv and games then yes 16.9 but the vast majority of movies are filmed in 2.35-2.40 that is fact hence a scope screen

So for me my opinion is that a 77"tv simply cannot compete with a 100" pj screen they are 2 completely different experiences and then 100 scope screen is on another level still for movies.


I am clearly referring in my post to a 100'' 16:9 screen to a 77'' 16:9 screen, hence the display wars comparison I made being the 16:9 equivalents. If that wasn't clear, apologies. Next we'll be doing 32:9 100'' comparisons.

I have already stated what you've mentioned. It's comparing the two experiences (which I've had) of a 100'' Projector versus a 77'' OLED.

I think in the realms of 120''+ (or 100'' cinema scope screen), the PJ pulls through easily. However 100inches and below, I feel the 77'' OLED offers another dimension of PQ which the Projection might struggle to hold up to.



*note my experiences are from a projector + TV from about 2.5 to 2.8m viewing distance*


____

TLDR:
Throwing in bigger screens, different aspect ratios is steering the argument elsewhere and towards points I've never disagreed with.
 

sim12

Active Member
There really isnt much of a debate here then is there.

As a plug and play device of course the 5k 77"oled wins spend the same on a pj setup in a dedicated room the pj wins.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
There really isnt much of a debate here then is there.

As a plug and play device of course the 5k 77"oled wins spend the same on a pj setup in a dedicated room the pj wins.

Interesting. I found gaming completely inferior on the 95 or 100'' PJ screen but it was using an Epson 9400. I still enjoyed it but the HDR tone mapping was off and the quality of the image was significantly lower. Brighter specular highlights which video games used did not come through at all. I squint at the sun rise at the start of the TLOU2 and blown away on the OLED. On the 9400 I wasn't.

This was 9400 + a draper react screen... equate to around £4,500 once we include mounting, wiring, etc.

But then again, this is not in a treated room (and the ALR screen obviously increases the cost).
 

jockychan

Well-known Member
I know for a fact if you stick the lumagen in the projector chain even with low mid end kit along with the radiance the results are staggering. There are lots of av enthusiasts who add the lumagen first when building a home cinema then add the projector and the rest after. Just remember tho the lumagen radiance will work best with projector & screen this is true. However adding the lumagen to 77inch OLED would also make a huge difference to the conversation.
 

sim12

Active Member
Interesting. I found gaming completely inferior on the 95 or 100'' PJ screen but it was using an Epson 9400. I still enjoyed it but the HDR tone mapping was off and the quality of the image was significantly lower. Brighter specular highlights which video games used did not come through at all. I squint at the sun rise at the start of the TLOU2 and blown away on the OLED. On the 9400 I wasn't.

This was 9400 + a draper react screen... equate to around £4,500 once we include mounting, wiring, etc.

But then again, this is not in a treated room (and the ALR screen obviously increases the cost).
Being that there is no industry standard for HDR it has come down to user preference, given that from the sound of things you haven't had your oled pro calibrated and did not have the 9400 pro calibrated then it literally is down to what you think about the images at least at pro calibration level their is an expert who knows what the image should at least appear to look, for all we know you had the 9400 setup wrong in the short time you had it.
As for a dedicated room you don't need a ALR screen people tend to spend to only spend a few hundred give and take and spend the rest on room treatment here go the cost would roughly equate to the same price as the 77"oled..
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Being that there is no industry standard for HDR it has come down to user preference, given that from the sound of things you haven't had your oled pro calibrated and did not have the 9400 pro calibrated then it literally is down to what you think about the images at least at pro calibration level their is an expert who knows what the image should at least appear to look, for all we know you had the 9400 setup wrong in the short time you had it.
As for a dedicated room you don't need a ALR screen people tend to spend to only spend a few hundred give and take and spend the rest on room treatment here go the cost would roughly equate to the same price as the 77"oled..


Hi Sim,

There are elements of the HDR on the OLED which I believe are technologically not possible on the Projector. E.g. having a 500nit specular highlight on a pitch black dark sky on one half of the screen and a normally lit human face on the other half.

I do think the HDR tone mapping brilliant of projectors, especially JVC and lumagen based scene by scene real time analysis allows for excellent accurate HDR tone mapping... but for the aspect of specular highlight detail, due to the nature of the technology, I believe this is the element of HDR will be missing form projection until we get the next step up in the technology.

Yup, I think whether you go ALR or room treatment, the cost will equate to about the same. 77'' OLED AG9 for £4500. High end PJ + Screen + Room treatment probably ammounts to the same.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
btw i hope all my posts are not trying to sound like PJ hate...

to make it clear Im a home theatre enthusiast who loves all elements of home theatre..
ok except LCD TVs.. just kidding... my panasonic 902B is on 3D duty.
 

DB9S

Member
An OLED TV can control colour and brightness at a pixel level (resulting in some specular highlight detail on pitch black screen, so for example, I can be blinded by a fire on the left side of the screen whilst the other half of the screen is essentially off).

How does the Lumagen (+any consumer projector) replicate that? Sure it cannot. Sure it can create a pleasing image, but the actual brightness from those pixels, I struggle to understand from a technological perspective how it does that.

Because doesn't the PJ technically have to open its iris to reproduce the bright fire?

True, but try finding an OLED with over 7-900 Nits. Decent projectors can tone map to that level pretty easily.
My 760 is plenty squinty in many scenes. Some actually make you sit back they are so bright but without compromising the rest of the image.
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
Hi Sim,

There are elements of the HDR on the OLED which I believe are technologically not possible on the Projector. E.g. having a 500nit specular highlight on a pitch black dark sky on one half of the screen and a normally lit human face on the other half.

I do think the HDR tone mapping brilliant of projectors, especially JVC and lumagen based scene by scene real time analysis allows for excellent accurate HDR tone mapping... but for the aspect of specular highlight detail, due to the nature of the technology, I believe this is the element of HDR will be missing form projection until we get the next step up in the technology.

Yup, I think whether you go ALR or room treatment, the cost will equate to about the same. 77'' OLED AG9 for £4500. High end PJ + Screen + Room treatment probably ammounts to the same.

We’re going over old ground here, but yesterday @Owl40 visited my room, he’s uploaded a review on my build thread.

To use the word “gobsmacked” is an understatement to what he thought to the picture quality of HDR content and Specular highlights. He himself didn’t think it was possible. I switched the lumagen tone mapping on and off, the difference isn’t subtle, it’s absolutely staggering.

I’m talking about a £15k projector getting an improvement of at least 200% with the lumagen in the chain.

My point still stands, I would guarantee that every person who saw the Sony with lumagen in action would agree that is has zero issues produced absolutely stunning HDR and specular highlights.
 

ask4me2

Active Member
I think the best way is not to put all the eggs in the same basket.

Why shod there be a 77" Oled TV vs 100" Projector, why not have both a 77" Oled TV setup, and an even bigger than 100" screen projector setup?

Then it is possible to choose the setup that gives the best result for the thing you want to play on it.
 

DB9S

Member
Hi Sim,

There are elements of the HDR on the OLED which I believe are technologically not possible on the Projector. E.g. having a 500nit specular highlight on a pitch black dark sky on one half of the screen and a normally lit human face on the other half.

I do think the HDR tone mapping brilliant of projectors, especially JVC and lumagen based scene by scene real time analysis allows for excellent accurate HDR tone mapping... but for the aspect of specular highlight detail, due to the nature of the technology, I believe this is the element of HDR will be missing form projection until we get the next step up in the technology.

Yup, I think whether you go ALR or room treatment, the cost will equate to about the same. 77'' OLED AG9 for £4500. High end PJ + Screen + Room treatment probably ammounts to the same.

For a look at what is possible with projection, two more words:
Christie Eclipse. :D:cool:
 

DB9S

Member
Here is a picture of Spiderman FFH that shows a lot of contrast in one scene. What it cannot convey (due to limitations of the camera) is the amount of detail present in the highlights and dark areas directly to the eye.

Gives a very good idea of the on screen contrast however. :)
SM_FFH.jpg
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member

Vila

Well-known Member
Thats still a 68.66% larger area with *just* a 100" Screen over a 77" TV

Screen Shot 2020-07-13 at 16.25.43.png


For me, size matters when it comes to watching films.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Thats still a 68.66% larger area with *just* a 100" Screen over a 77" TV

View attachment 1333836

For me, size matters when it comes to watching films.


Yup still a massive difference in size. no doubt about it. extra 10 inches each side and 5 above 5 below... (or 10-11 total height).



Surprisingly from my testing on my self, friends and family, everyone so far seems to prefer the OLED (but appreciates the projector too). of course this is not in a completely treated room but it is still using a draper react screen which isnt the worst thing in the world.

i was most surprised by my sister who LOVES the projector but she nearly straight away preferred the OLED (this was not her opinion when i had a panasonic 902b instead).

both displays benefit from no light. no light is obv needed for projector. no light with an oled obviously allows it to show off in any black screen content. i do find myslf sometimes wanting to in madvr press 9 on the oled to crop in the Picture a TINY bit which is naughty tho.


I think if im housing more than 2 people to watch a film, the projector is my preferred option but for 2 people sitting near middle of sofa, seems like OLED is better. Similarly I think if i had sports playing, I would prefer the projector.

i really need to find a new PJ which can do 3D films soon.. !
 

mb3195

Distinguished Member
Does a Lumagen allow for specular highlight reproduction? HDR on an OLED is so startling due to the extreme light differences on a specific scene and scene to scene.

As far as I know, a Luamgen is just a video processor and cannot correct this limitation of projectors which exists. I see it as a technical limitation.


For example, scene on Wonder Woman. On her little small thing on her head, there is the tiniest bit of shine and specular highlight detail much higher than the rest of the scene. How does a projector actually illustrate that brightness in a dark scene? It can't.

Its similar to the simple example of a black flame in a dark scene. A projector can't customise the black flame to be hitting X lumens and the rest of the scene much lower. An OLED can and does.

I would say this distinct advantage of pixel level control of brightness and colour is exclusive to OLEDs and why I also think LCDs fall short against them.

Here you go mate, this review has just been posted in Australia on the Lumagen. Worth a read to hear from an independent expert.

 

CaroleBaskin

Active Member
All of this talk of the Lumagen is making me want to jump from LLDV tone mapping on my X9500 using a Vertex2.

I need to stop reading mb3195's posts now, he's making me want to buy a Lumagen Radiance Pro and I keep telling myself the Vertex2 is doing a nice job :laugh:
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Samsung TV Launch & QN95A Neo QLED Review, plus Film & TV news & Reviews
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Tidal streaming service acquired by Twitter/Square's Jack Dorsey
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Netflix adds support for reduced theatrical release window
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Paradigm launches Founder speaker series
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 3rd March 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Music revenue in U.S. sees vinyl sales overtake CD
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom