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720p output from dvd??

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by keyser, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. keyser

    keyser
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  2. garmtz

    garmtz
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    Well, some players (apparently this Samsung) are coming out now that upscale DVD's 480i to ATSC standards like 480p, 720p or 1080i. The source still is standard resolution NTSC, but the video data is de-interlaced and scaled in the player, something that home theater PCs can do to almost any resolution.

    In short, you won't get a High Def output, only upscaled DVD.
     
  3. keyser

    keyser
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    Does this increase in resolution improve the picture noticably?? If it does then why haven´t more dvd players used this feature.. since I´m guessing that many plasmas and projectors here in europe can make use of this.
     
  4. garmtz

    garmtz
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    EVERY LCD, DLP, D-ILA projector and every plasma television already de-interlaces the picture (to go from 480i to 480p) and scales all incoming signals to fill the "native" resolution of the display. So, instead of de-interlacing and scaling in the player, it is done in the display device. With most of these devices, you might see a decrease in de-interlacing/scaling artifacts because of digital domain de-interlacing.sclaing, but not in resolution per se.

    With a CRT-projector, which does not have any internal scalers (well, some have...), you might benefit a lot from a 720p or 1080i output. Try watching 480i on a good CRT front projector. It is terrible once you are used to a high-res progressive picture.
     
  5. keyser

    keyser
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    ahhhh... stupid me. I should have figured that out. So this uppscaling isn´t really something for me as I´m gonna buy a plasma. So I´ll just wait for a good pal+ntsc progressive player to arrive. Thanks.
     
  6. Plump

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    Well no need to wait. There are some fine players out there that can do it all.
    Starting with Denon 2800 and that "all in one" Pioneer upwards.
    Of course, if you are waiting for something in the low cost market then you might need to wait just a bit longer.
    Cheers
     
  7. garmtz

    garmtz
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    Plump, these player can only output 480p and 576p, not 720p or maybe even 1080i.
     
  8. Plump

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    Oh, I did not get it ! He wants HD output from a player :)
    It will be hard to find screen and player that match perfectly!



    Anyway, have fun!
     
  9. keyser

    keyser
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    Well I´m actually not looking for a hd dvd player.. unless that enhances the picture of a plasma.. but I don´t think so because the source is only normal res. But I´m looking for a very good pal/ntsc progressive player.. and I don´t think arcam or pioneer 747 are good eneough. Am wating for something that has the new faroudja chip(minimises the chroma bug) and is really good in very other way.
     
  10. garmtz

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    The Faroudja chip alone will not eliminate the chroma bug. The chroma bug is caused by the MPEG2 decoder. The Faroudja "softens" the bug a bit, but won't solve it. Choose a player that doesn't have the chroma bug at all.
     
  11. Plump

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    Garmt is right here.

    I can also only confirm TAG has no chroma bug, but this issue is strongly overrated.
    And BTW Arcam is very very fine player indeed, especially over Prog.Scan module, you should not underestimate it.

    If you go for Plasma you might not need anything else. Afterwards if you are not happy you can always check for a good scaler that can match its resolution.

    Cheers
     
  12. keyser

    keyser
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    Garmtz.. finding a top quality player with no chroma bug is easier said that done.. panasonic don´t seem to have the problem but most reviews seem to see other problems.. bad with fast paning. And since the chroma problem doesn´t seem to all that bad on most player I imagine it´s hardly noticable with the faroudja softening.

    Plump... the Tag´s are very expensive aren´t they??(don´t know much about them).. and there are quite a few posts of faults on the arcam. So I THINK that I´m gonna wait for the new Philips with the new faroudja chip.
     
  13. garmtz

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    keyser, you're right. Sometimes I even wonder if the chroma "bug" is solveable at all, as colour information is interpolated that wasn't there at the time of encoding. That alone could introduce artifacts. The fact that something goes wrong in the upsampling is the real bug, but the upsampling will never be completely perfect.
     
  14. keyser

    keyser
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    Has anyone seen a review of the new philips.. do you think it is noticably better than my pioneer 737.

    And on another note (noone answered my other post), on a standard def plasma.. will I loose any resolution from a pal signal(do SDef. only have 480 lines??), or do the plasmas have enough lines?
     
  15. garmtz

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    The Pioneer does not have the most brilliant deinterlacing. The Philips uses Faroudja DCDi to the best of my knowledge, which will give a noticeably more artifact-free image in most cases and with difficult material.

    Most plasmas nowadays have more than 576 lines of resolution (PAL). But don't worry too much about resolution, it's the subjective image quality that really counts.
     
  16. keyser

    keyser
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    Hmmm.. I realise that resolution isn´t the most important thing. But after seeing the difference pixelplus makes.. isn´t that just increased resolution, the image gets MUCH sharper (not counting the artefacts)?
     
  17. garmtz

    garmtz
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    Lots of factors come into play when talking about picture quality. To my taste, pixel plus does mostly harm to most images, but that is my opinion. Higher resolution displays should theoretically provide more resolution, because of having more picture elements to resolve details. This doesn't explain however why some moderate resolution displays can give such good images.
     
  18. keyser

    keyser
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    I do think that the pixelplus makes many things look worse.. but images with little motion look much sharper. So I see potential in this technology and was wondering if there is anything related but better. I would think that pixelplus could reduce the artifacts as time goes by.

    Resolution must have a say in picture quality... just like contrast and other things do. But it seems that higher resolution displays like plasmas have a harder time of getting the light trough the small pixels because they are usually darker and have less contrast? But the pixelplus shows what better resolution looks like, so loosing resolution from a source can´t be good. You must get a little worse picture if you lose almost 100 lines from a pal signal. It´s not like you get the pixelplus artifacts by including these lines. So it´s really disapointing if plasmas can´t fully display all of the info on a standard definiton pal dvd signal... is this really the case?? I´m talking about the high contrast lower resoluition panels like the panasonics.. .which seem to give a sharper picture than the high def ones(but a snandard def plasma that could still display all the lines in a pal signal would be ideal). So weird if they make a panel that is about hundred lines to little, and then a HD one.. why not make one with just enough to cover Standard definiton... am I understanding this right... seems very strange.
     

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