720p or not 720p that is the question

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by Lukero77, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. Lukero77

    Lukero77

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    I have a 360 and a ps3, and have had the 360 for some time. I also have the hd-dvd add on.

    My query is this, I have a 720p panel. On the ps3 if you set the output to 720p it will only output bd movies at 480p, to get the hd you need to set the output to 1080i and then your panel will downscale to 720p (complicated and rubbish in my opinion) I was just wondering if this is the case with the 360 hd-dvd add on, I use component for the 360 and hdmi for the ps3. If i set the output of the 360 to 720p will the hd-dvd's output at 720p (to be honest i'm pretty sure it does output in 720p but i would like some confirmation of that) or at 480/576p

    cheers:D
     
  2. Dave

    Dave
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    720p for the 360.

    The 360 has a hardware scaling chip so whatever resolution you set it to, it will output at.
     
  3. BradleyLove

    BradleyLove
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    I'm not convinced your statement is strictly true.

    Unless you have a true 720p panel (ie. 720 lines not 768) then 1080i may in fact be better. If you output at 720, something has to invent the extra lines in order for your TV to output at it's native resolution, that being 768p. So in other words, your TV will probably invent extra information that isn't there.

    With 1080i your TV only has to lose information. Surely it's better for you TV to say "I don't want this information" rather than "I need more information, lets make it up"...

    Just a thought and one that has probably been debated to hell and back but still, I thought it was perhaps worth mentioning.
     
  4. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Its a good point mate, perhaps it would be better to leave the 360 set to 720p when playing games but change it to 1080i when watching HD-DVDs?
     
  5. ukkev2000

    ukkev2000
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    Asking for opinions so here's mine, based upon no real facts at all :D

    I'd stick to 720p, in all probability it will leave 34 lines of black top and bottom of the picture if your panel is 768.

    I'd be concerned about the the down conversion of a too-big interlaced picture to whatever you panel does.. plus the delay in the signal path as your panel gets the frames and assembles the picture, then scales it, that's giving your opponents at least a 30th of second advantage over you.. enough time for them to pull the trigger or for you to lose the back of the lambo as you approach the finish line. Maybe. :devil:
     
  6. Lukero77

    Lukero77

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    yes, it's odd. my panel is probably 768, I am relieved to hear that the 360 has hardware scaling. I have been using 720p with no problems, but tonight i will try 1080i and see where it goes. My ps3 has to be set to 1080i, which is'nt great really. thanks guys
     
  7. BradleyLove

    BradleyLove
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    Another point to consider though.

    For games I use 720p but movies I use 1080i. So whilst it may seem I was advocating 1080i, the reality of the matter is that it depends on what I'm doing with my panel at the time.
     
  8. Lukero77

    Lukero77

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    I am just a lazy person, I can't be bothered to switch every time (my memory isn't great) and i'll forget which it is, i'm going to set it to 1080i for good.

    just out of interest spank-a-thon do you find much difference between 720p and 1080i on your panel, i.e what is your reason for changing each time.
     
  9. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    I would've thought that overscan implemented on most/all Component inputs would make 720p fill the whole of a 768p display.
    Of course you also are correct that extra scaling is taking place here as you're not feeding your display it's native resolution, by either sending 720p or 1080i.

    Since the majority of displays are progressive; if you send a non-720p display a 720p signal, you'll get scaling in your display. If you send a non-1080i/p display a 1080i signal, you'll get scaling and de-interlacing in your display.

    I have a native 720p display.
    Using Component @ 720p, you get overscan, so some of the edges are cut-off.

    Using Component @ 1080i, you still get a little overscan, but also some de-interlacing jaggies which I mainly noticed in HD-DVD films.

    Using VGA @720p, you get the whole picture and no interlaced related defects.
     
  10. Andy1969

    Andy1969
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    Is this true?

    I have a 720p TV and Projector. I would like to know where this info came from as naturally I would like to send the best signal to both units, and set the PS3 to 720p when attaching it to either, assuming that the 720p is expected at the screen and projector so this will match.

    I'll test this out tonight eitherway.

    Cheers,
    Andy
     
  11. Lukero77

    Lukero77

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    I don't know this for a fact however I was reliably informed the ps3 will downscale if not set to 1080i/p
     
  12. Lukero77

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    do you know why you wouldn't get artifacts etc through vga @720p but you would with component, surely a 720p signal is the same no matter how you get it to the tv (although saying that I did notice a difference in the picture quality when using vga over component)
     
  13. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    It was 1080i over Component where I could see the jaggies.
    The only real differences for 720p over Component and VGA, was the overscan and crazy colours on Component.

    Just had a quick look on PS3 forum and I believe this is indeed true, a fix is needed for this.
     
  14. Andy1969

    Andy1969
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    I just did the same thing.

    What a jip. So to get 720p over component I need to set the PS3 to 1080i or 1080p, this will then send that signal to the 720p projector (Which to be HD ready has to support 1080i) and in fact run at 1080i, so I get interlacing irrespective. This appears to be only for Blue-Ray movies, the games (or lack of em) will run in 720p as this appears to be that crap HDCP set up.

    Man alive, this HD Ready - Full HD, HD-DVD - BRay, camp needs a good kick in the nuts. It's a ClusterFCUK really.

    I'll check this out this evening but don't doubt the validity of the info on AVF.

    Cheers,
    Andy
     
  15. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    Perhaps everyone should buy a PS3 and a 1080p Bravia.
    Oh, thats what they want us to do :confused:
     
  16. ukkev2000

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    To be honest, it's the PS3 that needs a kicking for not putting in a HW scaler.

    Your 360 HDDVD will happily output movies in 720p over component. It's the Ps3 that's poorly designed. :smashin:
     
  17. Andy1969

    Andy1969
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    Yeah,

    The strength of it is I have a Bravia...720p Rear Projection 50"er...and Location Free, and then the PS3, Sony have always been really really short sighted, good products like Mini-Disc, like BetaMax, but they never last long.

    I cannot determine if Blue is better than the HD-DVD to be honest, looks much of the same to me, but I do know that the 360 makes things SO much easier.

    Sony :confused: they confuse the heck outta me...
     
  18. SquintingBadger

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    Or rather, for hiding it.
     
  19. Lukero77

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    I belive to be hd ready and carry the logo it only has to have a minimum of 720p and have a hdmi input.
     
  20. BradleyLove

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    I only use my 360 for gaming and prefer 720p for less jaggies mainly.

    I have my PS3 set to 1080i as games for PS3 are not scaled up if they're 720p, and Blu-ray has to be played back at 1080i.

    Incidentally I also prefer my upscaling DVD player set to 1080i. For movies I just prefer it but I can't really explain why, there's nothing obvious I can say. It just "feels" better in 1080i if that makes any kind of sense!
     
  21. AudioSlim

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    Hmm, yep I've seen that point banded around as well. The trouble with that fact is simply 'why?'.

    Me thinks theres a lot more to this so called hiding of the PS3 scaler, something a little more sinister, but I am a conspiracy theorist at times ;)

    Slim
     
  22. Stackers

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    Its always a good idea to let your TV do the scaling where possible (as long as it has a decent scaler) so on my 768 panel i choose 1080i for 360/Sky HD & DVD.

    Sky HD is more relevant but if you set that box to 720p this is what happens;

    Signal arrives at 1080i -> downscaled to 720P on Sky HD box -> upscaled to 768 by TV; whereas if you set the HD box to 1080i then signal arrives at 1080i -> downscaled to 768. Much better.

    As far as I'm aware setting the 360 to 720 doesn't add 34 lines of black bars at the top and bottom, the scaler has to make up the detail (as mentioned in a previous post) and its always better to downscale then to make up lines.

    In all fairness its doubtful you'll be able to see any difference between 720p and 1080i.
     
  23. kingofironfist0

    kingofironfist0
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    thank ms for the ANA scaler chip
     
  24. ukkev2000

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    I think you need some caveats on that statement.

    With 60fps video & games, 1080i will only be displaying 30fps (if scaled to 720p), or you will get jaggies because of the (de)interlacing.

    However if watching low rate video, 24fps film or a 30fps game, then the interlacing would make little difference.
     
  25. brandondanger

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    ive got a 42px70 plasma which is a 1024x768panel and i must say i prefer the 1080i output of the hddvd drive. it just looks better... cant really explain why, just does. surely if the tv is downscaling a resolution it will be better than upscaling and making up data from out of nowhere? i havnt tried the vga cable yet but i will as soon as ms sends the may dash update...
     
  26. SquintingBadger

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    This seems to be a common misconception, 1080i will still display the 60fps, scaled or otherwise. The deinterlacing is dependent on the device, but will likely double up lines effectively giving half the resolution for moving objects.
     
  27. ukkev2000

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    pedant :)

    You will get 60 rubbish frames a second @1080i rather than 60 lovely frames a second @720p, for 60fps source material.

    HDVD is much more forgiving of this than 60fps games/video.
     
  28. Stackers

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    After that quote i stick to my original comment!
     
  29. Lukero77

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    after reading all these replies , I have set the ps3 and the 360 to 1080i and I'll see how I get on.

    Although to be honest I noticed a bigger difference when swapping from vga to component, tha component picture has better colours for films but doesn't look so great for games.
     

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