Question 7.1.4 speaker help

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Hi all! I'm getting a double garage converted in the next few months, and intend to turn it into a home cinema. I had a home cinema 12 years ago that was entirely a B&W affair, but had to give it up when I moved house & had kids. I sold everything then, so I'm starting again now from a clean sheet! :rotfl: The room is 17'9" by 13'6", and I've attached a crude model of my proposed layout based around a 120" fixed frame screen.

I had considered, as examples only:

4x MA C165 in the ceiling
C165 | In-Ceiling Speakers | Monitor Audio

3x MA Radius 225 (or possibly A40) for LCR
Radius 225 | Centre Channel Speakers | Monitor Audio
Apex A40

4x QA 7000i or DLS Flatbox Minis for surrounds
Q Acoustics 7000i Series Speakers
Flatbox Mini in black - wall speaker

1x BK XLS200, or the QA 7070Si if I end up getting it with a pack of the 7000i's
XLS200-DF
Q-Acoustics 7070Si

I'm totally flexible on any or all of the above. I've really only listed these to illustrate my rough price ranges, as well as the primary aesthetic constraint - wall-hugging. We'd like them to be pretty slim & on-wall and in-ceiling, ideally (WAF), though she could bend to full size cabinets for the LCR in a pinch. I'd also considered building the screen forward on a shallow frame and putting on-wall LCR behind it, to avoid the C being quite so low and the LR as wide as in the mockups attached. Any thoughts? It'd be more work to build all the boxing, more cost for the screen ... but worth it?

Lastly, any recommendations on what I need to think about for the four ceiling speakers, given the large steel beam? I could put them all on the 'inside' of it (as illustrated in the mockups) but that's no longer in line with the fronts, and possibly too 'bunched up'. Or, I could line them up with the fronts (as per Dolby guides) but that puts two on the other side of the beam (assuming those don't move closer together behind the screen, as above) ... and might set up some interesting reflection issues.

Any and all help (very!) gratefully received. Many thanks in advance! :clap:
 

Attachments

  • 3dv5.png
    3dv5.png
    229.4 KB · Views: 58
  • 3dv6.png
    3dv6.png
    292.3 KB · Views: 52
  • plan.png
    plan.png
    100.1 KB · Views: 53
Last edited:

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I cannot see anything wrong with the fronts if you are trying to keep things small. But you could also look at the Radius 225's as they are a little larger plus they'll protrude less into the room. I would change the subwoofer to one that utilises a high level input for when you are watching/listening to stereo plus the rear/surrounds, maybe look at the Bronze FX speakers, even though they have a larger foot print visibly, depth wise they are quite a bit smaller and would certainly produce a better rear surround experience plus they would blend better with the fronts as they are from the same family. The CI speakers will be perfect and tonally, you should create quite a good match with the above option :)
 

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Hi Shane, thanks for the input. I think you may have misread part of the post, however, as I was already suggesting the Radius 225 for the fronts? Or, did you mean in place of the Apex A40s I also suggested? Either way, thanks for the tip on the sub! Lastly, regarding the rears and surrounds, I had thought that - in the advent of atmos etc. - that direct surrounds and rears were now the preferred option; did I get that wrong? Happy to consider the FXs if I've got that muddled, as I've had them before and was happy with them - indeed, the mockups I attached to my first post used half-cylinders modelled on 4x FXs. :p
 
Last edited:

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Sorry, I was just balancing the sound out the best way I felt for the room tonally. The Apex A40's are superior to the Radius and yes, I had miss-read a little as I'd just answered another post earlier with the smaller Radius (Doh! :facepalm:).

I know many people are running down the direct option route regarding rears, but as the rears produce more information than the atmos speakers, I feel that its still a little bit more of what you are watching/listening that will make the difference :)

I for one prefer using multi-directional types of speakers over unidirectional ones, but I could be wrong for your own expectations :smashin:
 

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Does anyone have any thoughts on the ceiling speaker placement? I've attached updated images showing potential positions if I maintain alignment with the fronts, albeit placing two of them of the left of the beam.
 

Attachments

  • 3d7.jpg
    3d7.jpg
    75.4 KB · Views: 56
  • planv2.jpg
    planv2.jpg
    66.4 KB · Views: 53

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
As your creating an Atmos system, the best practice would be to follow the diagram issued by Dolby. Looking at where the RSJ is, you should easily be able to navigate passed the beams as you have illustrated and place the speakers in the correct locations :)

 

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Cool, ta! Only thing making me hesistant on 3x Apex A40s is the price. I love the look of the Oberon on-walls, but they don't have a matching (on wall, slim, unless I step up to the Opticon?) centre, so they're a no-no. Then came across the XTZ Spirit 2 & 6 - they seem to tick a lot of boxes, though, I'd be reluctant to splash out for additional 2s for the 4 surround speakers. What could I get for wall-mounted surrounds to match the Spirit series if I went for those for LCR duties? (and, for that matter, the ceiling speakers unless the C165s wouldn't jar ...)
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Cool, ta! Only thing making me hesistant on 3x Apex A40s is the price. I love the look of the Oberon on-walls, but they don't have a matching (on wall, slim) centre, no they're a no-no. Then came across the XTZ Spirit 2 & 6 - they seem to tick a lot of boxes, though, I'd be reluctant to splash out for additional 2s for the 4 surround speakers. What could I get for wall-mounted surrounds to match the Spirit series if I went for those for LCR duties? (and, for that matter, the ceiling speakers unless the C165s wouldn't jar ...)

First thing first. Do you live in UK?

For XTZ consider Spirit 6 (x3) similar way to Apex A40 (x3), aim for matching front three if possible! All slim on-wall options will cost, XTZ competes with cheaper lines but is praiced by many who has heard them. One member while ago bought them over Dali Oberon on-walls after listening both. M&K MP950 in black / white could be great option, not sure how tight the prices are.
M&K Black MP950 On-Wall LCR Speaker (Single) - Bookshelf Speakers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists
M&K White MP950 On-Wall LCR Speaker (Single) - Bookshelf Speakers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

Dali Opticon LCR is sold as each so you could get a similar "slim" centre horizontally under your screen! Price is same 500£/each as MA A40 and there seems to be some pair of ex-demo black for 375£/each.
DALI Opticon LCR White Wall Mountable Speaker (Single) - DALI - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

You could (should) start with smaller system first so you don´t have to make compromises with the front three and subwoofer which should take big amount of your budget. I calculated 22sqm which is ~medium size room. While the XLS200 is fine sub for smaller rooms, you want to up your budget to 500-700£ mark minium. What´s the point to have a big picture, great sound without some rumble?! Good subwoofer can make massive difference to overall cinematic feeling (blockbusters) and especially as you have dedicated space where you can crank up and enjoy, maybe call some friends over and have a good time. Hope the wife is fine if she can choose colours of your gear, anything other should come from you..

@ShanePJ could recommend some cheaper/better options to C165 as they have good selection of in-ceiling speakers. If you go with the regular design i`m not sure do you really have to pay as much as C165 costs, as lot of people seem to get away MUCH cheaper in that case. Similar story to surrounds. You can get away with different brand easily as long as you choose wisely so that the speakers can keep up with the rest of system. With limited budget you can do some compromises in this area if it helps you get something better for where it counts the most.

PS. Which receiver you own / going to buy?
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
If your looking at a cheaper option, then I would say out Fisual 65 line.

The HC65 and IC65 are both great as Atmos speakers and even though they are cheaper than most of the others, you have to remember than there is no middle man on these which price for price would inflate their prices considerably to match their performance levels.

If you are interested in the Dali's I would give us a call (01706 878444) as we do have some in the showroom and it could be how you grab a pair on a better deal thanks to our relocation sale :)
 

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Wow, a lot to take in there, thanks both. Let me see.

Yes, I live in the UK. Understood, I'll aim for same across LCR where possible. I'm currently discussing with my builder the feasibility of cutting into the breezeblock walls in the garage, which would either allow me to (at least) partially recess an otherwise on-wall speaker like the Spirit 6, to 'hide' some of its depth, or even to go fully in-wall for all 7 of the in-plane speakers, e.g. 3 lots of the MA W150 or older WT150 plus 4 smaller surrounds?

Many thanks for the suggestions on the in-ceiling speakers, that's not a company I'd heard of, so the recommendation is very welcome.

I've not settled on a receiver yet. My main priority is working out speaker placement and then crucial decisions like in-wall vs. on-wall, so I can ensure the building work and wiring is as best as I can specify it up-front.
 
Last edited:

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Fisual is our own brand, hence why the middle man has been cut out :)
 

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Thanks all for the assistance, I think I've enough to be getting on with the planning for now. I'll likely put up a thread for the build once I finalise a date with the builder. :smashin:
 

ajsesugd

Standard Member
Thread resurrection! Turns out when I wrote "... though she could bend to full size cabinets for the LCR in a pinch", I should've written "... and she'll cave happily to permit standmounts or floorstanders, as she's not really as fussed as she first made out". :D:clap:

So! Looks like I'm cleared to cast my net wider for the front three! The intended use is still 99.9% movies, so I'm not sure if that means floorstanders would be unnecessary, but now I'm thinking (regardless) that I may be constrained by the L&R being near corners. There's 2 foot between each side wall and the edge of the screen (at 120"), and I can't pull them forward too much owing to the door on the right-hand wall. Would I benefit from avoiding rear-ported speakers, do you feel, for example? I'd started looking again at:

- MA Bronze 2s, 5s or 6s, with the Bronze centre
- Elac B6.2s or F6.2s, with the C6.2
- Q 3020is or 3050is, with the 3090Ci.

I'll try to arrange demos of what I can, so just wanted your impressions more on the general considerations of stands vs. floor, rear vs. front ported, all against the size of the room I've got to play with. The above are, again, mainly just to illustrate cost range for the LCR (~£900). Heck, perhaps the XTZ Spirit 6s are still the best way to go, though I wonder if the inability to easily toe in the L&R from across a fairly wide screen would be a drawback.

Thoughts?
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Q Acoustics Q3030i, Humax Aura, Roku Streambar & WandaVision Reviews and more...
Top Bottom