6ohm speakers killed my AVR, help me pick a new one

[Undrta2d]

Or maybe they didn’t, I don’t know. Quick and concise…
In 2019 I purchased a factory refurbished x2500h from a well known online retailer to run a new set of Infinity R263 towers with their matching center (rc263). Of course, after the AVR’s warranty expired I’ve had random thermal errors that led me to buy auxiliary fans. They seemed to stay the issue for a while. Now, I have the red light of death (rapid red blinking power light).
I’m currently looking for a local repair shop and it’s proving difficult, so, in the meantime I’m asking for your help to find a decent replacement.
Which current models would reliably run the infinity’s with an SVS sub(Pb-2000)? I’ve read that the 263’s can dip below 4ohm, is that true?
I don’t foresee me ever going above a 5.1.2 setup, though who knows. I imagine if I were in a position to afford a space big enough for a wider setup, then budget might not matter as much. Speaking of budget, I’d like to keep it below 1000us, but if something will blow my socks off, I’m open to suggestions. I’ve exhaustingly troubleshot this and it isn’t a shorted wire or something of the like.

 

[SeanBrothers]

I'm running a 7.1.4 setup with 5 x 4 ohm speakers on a Denon AVR-X3700H, albeit with a power amp for the fronts (4 ohm).

 

[Mr Wolf]

Your R263 speakers are reviewed and measured here by (the well respected) Brent Butterworth.

Infinity R263 Floorstanding Speaker Reviewed - HomeTheaterReview

Ask some old audiophile (like me) about Infinity, and he'll probably tell you about the Infinity Reference Series speaker, which broke the $40,000/pair price barrier way back in the 1980s. Or he might talk about the Servo Statik 1, which...

hometheaterreview.com

Impedance is measured as dipping to about 4-Ohms at 150Hz which is quite typical for a tower speaker.

The reviewer measured sensitivity at 86db so as long as you're not chasing reference level playback these are not overly difficult to drive. In fact you'll see that the reviewer considered them to be drivable with "most cheap AV receivers".

 

[password1]

86db is pretty poor sensitivity for floorstanders of that size.

Have you been running the avr at near it's limits or for long periods...

As its a refurbished unit, did it previously have any faults... if its a previous fault that has reoccurred, you could ask if the repairer is available or contactable to ask for a quote or diagnosis of the previous fault.

 

[rccarguy2]

I think your amp was probably on its last legs

I did read a while.ago about a particular infinity kappa model being ridiculously hard to drive/inefficient

 

[ashenfie]

Looking at the graphs the and knowing Denon amp well, you would need a well ventilated location. Further the avr seams under spec’Ed for the speakers and would not really be able to get the best from them. Recommendations wise its down to budget. Like me you don’t really need loads of channels, maybe look at a Yamaha or if you can stretch to a Nad.

 

[dante01]

The OP makes no mention of the volume levels he enjoys or the distance he is located from the speakers? If he likes the audio loud and at reference and if he's in a larger room where the speakers are located some distance away from where he is sat then he should look at a more powerful and resilient amp.

In a small to medium sized room, the X2500 shouldn;t have any real issues driving low impedance speakers to reference.

 

[Undrta2d]

Wow, tons of feedback already, so thank you all. I’ll try to answer all of the questions in the order they were posted.
Being new to the home theater scene, I’ll apologize in advance if I use the wrong verbiage. I’m not sure if I’ve listened at reference levels often or not, but I can count on one hand the times I’ve had it loud enough to possibly bother my neighbors (we live in a condo setup with shared walls on either side of us). If volume levels help, average listening would be at 47.5, going up to 55 when splurging on a movie (not often).
When I purchased the unit (from A4L), I don’t remember seeing a refurb checklist in the box. In fact, from the outside to all of the components in the box, it seemed to be unopened and new, so I’m not aware of what may have been fixed, if anything.
Like above, listening levels vary between 35 and 55 max given I have neighbors, though 90% of the time it’s around 47.5. Listening position is 10ft to the center and 12 to the LF/RF. The room is an open family room/kitchen measuring 14’w by 30’l with vaulted ceilings, so rather large.
I’ve seen the new onkyo’s seem to be reviewed well, though they’re listed here as going bankrupt and not recommended due to lack of further support, I’d assume. It’s above my listed budget, but I tend to side with the thought of “buy once, cry once.” That being said, a $3000 receiver is well above my current means.
Again, thanks to everyone rhats contributed. Greatly appreciated

 

[dante01]

The only thing I can see that would warrant a more powerful amp is the room size. The further away the speakers are from your primary listening location then the more power is required to attain reference at that listening location.

Your master volume levels don't seem excessive though and aren't even 'reference'. I'd suggest you use the reference db scale in future for the master volume as opposed to using the absolute scale that you appear tp have been using. This makes it easier to actually relate the level of audio you'd be hearing at your listening location.


I'm assuming that you ran the Audyssey calibration when you first got the AVR?



In regards to reference level, you may want to read the following to gain an understanding of what people are referring to:

THX reference level explained - Acoustic Frontiers

What is ‘THX Reference Level’? Reference level is a calibrated volume setting used for both movie production (in dubbing stages and post production houses) and reproduction (in screening rooms and theaters). The human hearing system is non-linear, especially in the bass, so having a consistent...

www.acousticfrontiers.com

Likewise, here's an article that outlines the difference between relative to reference and absolute volume scales:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/‘relative’-vs-‘absolute’-volume-what’s-difference

 

[Gasp3621]

Or maybe they didn’t, I don’t know. Quick and concise…
In 2019 I purchased a factory refurbished x2500h from a well known online retailer to run a new set of Infinity R263 towers with their matching center (rc263). Of course, after the AVR’s warranty expired I’ve had random thermal errors that led me to buy auxiliary fans. They seemed to stay the issue for a while. Now, I have the red light of death (rapid red blinking power light).
I’m currently looking for a local repair shop and it’s proving difficult, so, in the meantime I’m asking for your help to find a decent replacement.
Which current models would reliably run the infinity’s with an SVS sub(Pb-2000)? I’ve read that the 263’s can dip below 4ohm, is that true?
I don’t foresee me ever going above a 5.1.2 setup, though who knows. I imagine if I were in a position to afford a space big enough for a wider setup, then budget might not matter as much. Speaking of budget, I’d like to keep it below 1000us, but if something will blow my socks off, I’m open to suggestions. I’ve exhaustingly troubleshot this and it isn’t a shorted wire or something of the like.

Sounds like you had bad luck with the factory refurbished unit as those thermal errors are not normal, shame you didn´t send the unit to be checked when you first got the error. You should have space minium of 5 inches on top and 2 inches at the sides of the unit.

There is nothing special below 1k$ so try to find shop that could give you some discount from Yamaha RX-A4A. It comes with 5year warranty and Yamaha is well known from reliability, easy of use and i`m sure it will sound great when setup correctly. Check the size carefully that it fits and don`t place it in any too tight spot even with the little fans as heat is the enemy.

Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A4A

7.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos®, Wi-Fi®, Bluetooth®, Apple AirPlay® 2, and Amazon Alexa compatibility

www.crutchfield.com

RX-A4A AV Receiver, 7.2 Channel & 8K HDMI - Yamaha USA

Discover the Yamaha RX-A4A AV receiver – a reference standard in home theater with 7.2 channels and 8K HDMI, Dolby Atmos and Vision, DTS:X, and more.

usa.yamaha.com

• 17-3/16"W x 7-1/2"H x 18-1/16"D (10-5/8"H with Bluetooth and Wi-Fi antennas raised)
• weight: 35.7 lbs.
• warranty: 3 years (5 years with Yamaha account creation and model registration)

 

[Undrta2d]

The only thing I can see that would warrant a more powerful amp is the room size. The further away the speakers are from your primary listening location then the more power is required to attain reference at that listening location.

Your master volume levels don't seem excessive though and aren't even 'reference'. I'd suggest you use the reference db scale in future for the master volume as opposed to using the absolute scale that you appear tp have been using. This makes it easier to actually relate the level of audio you'd be hearing at your listening location.


I'm assuming that you ran the Audyssey calibration when you first got the AVR?



In regards to reference level, you may want to read the following to gain an understanding of what people are referring to:

THX reference level explained - Acoustic Frontiers

What is ‘THX Reference Level’? Reference level is a calibrated volume setting used for both movie production (in dubbing stages and post production houses) and reproduction (in screening rooms and theaters). The human hearing system is non-linear, especially in the bass, so having a consistent...

www.acousticfrontiers.com

Likewise, here's an article that outlines the difference between relative to reference and absolute volume scales:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/‘relative’-vs-‘absolute’-volume-what’s-difference

Thank you for the links. Pretty sure I’m as up to speed as can be at this moment. At the next turn, I’ll definitely use reference levels instead of absolute.
Listening position won’t likely change soon since the housing market is an absolute NIGHTMARE. If anything, the room would get smaller. I’ll probably never have a dedicated theater room and whatever gets installed/replaced will be located in a family/multi-use area.
Yes, I ran audyssey a few times when figuring out whether forward facing towers had a better soundstage than toeing them in. Also re-ran it after adding the sub. I was amazed at the difference between what a sound bar can do, and a proper system. Still am.
The cabinet it was installed in is a three shelf TV stand with an arm so the TV “floats.” All shelves are open from all directions and there is/was 5” of clearance above the unit, which is partly why I was confused at the thermal issues, especially after installing the fans (2x 140mm usb on high, sat on top to exhaust heat outwards). The only time I felt warm air above the unit was the first time it tripped, often it faulted when playing at lower volume levels which led me to believe I had a short at one of the banana clips, though I could never find a loose connection or errant wire.
I believe Gasp is right and I lost the lottery. The unit is at the local Geek Squad(don’t flame me, I spent HOURS trying to find a local repair shop), so we’ll know soon how far I get bent over. If it turns out to be too pricey to repair a unit I’ve already lost trust in, a newer, hopefully better unit will be on the menu. I wonder if I could part this thing out to recoup some of the cost…
Any additional recommendations for replacement? Thoughts on the new onkyo’s? Less than 1k seems undoable given my speakers and the above threads, so I’ll reluctantly double it. I can make it work, though I’d rather not. What would y’all recommend with $2000 max?

 

[dante01]

All I can suggest is that if you start to get issues in the future then you use the manufacturers warranty and or get back in touch with the retailer who sold you the AV receiver, but this doesn't unforntunately help you now.

 

[Undrta2d]

All I can suggest is that if you start to get issues in the future then you use the manufacturers warranty and or get back in touch with the retailer who sold you the AV receiver, but this doesn't unforntunately help you now.

100%. In hindsight, I put too much faith in myself, and the brand(not implying Denon is a bad brand), as well as others experience with the retailer. I agree, at first sign of a fault, I should have, and will start that conversation with the retailer/manufacturer. Lesson learned.

The yammie A4A listed above is what I think will be the denon's replacement, if it can’t be fixed. I’ve also seen the Onkyo Rz-50 and the Marantz 5015. Not sure which way to go

 

[dante01]

I'd suggest that you also go read the Yamaha owners thread before buying an A4 to make sure that there are no issues with that that are going to cause you problems?

 

[Undrta2d]

I'd suggest that you also go read the Yamaha owners thread before buying an A4 to make sure that there are no issues with that that are going to cause you problems?

Thank for recommending that. Apparently they’re having hdmi pass through issues I wasn’t aware of. I’ve a lot of research to do.