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60w power amp powerful enough?

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by paiger, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. paiger

    paiger
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    I'm looking at the Rotel 1066 power amp to partner the 1066 pre/pro. Its 6x60w. Is this powerful enough for a room about 4mx6m? I'm not into huge volume and my Sony 1080 is plenty loud enough. I usually listen to music at about -40 on it.

    How does a 6x60w power amp compare to a reciever with 100w per channel. I think it said 60w into 8ohm (my Ruarks are). Don't quite understand the impedance bit so is this more powerful than my 1080 or not? I know the 1075 is only a little more money but it's quite a bit bigger and is only 5 channels. I plan to have a centre rear in this setup so the 1066 will be best if it's powerful enough.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. sounddog

    sounddog
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    If it's any help ... I use a Rotel RA1060 for the front channels. My room is a similar size to yours and I'm running B&W 602s2 front. The RA1060 is 60wpc as per the RMB1066 ... infact it's probably a very similar amplifier.


    Victoria
     
  3. alexs2

    alexs2
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    A lot depends on the speakers and their sensitivity/impedance,but 60W should be adequate for most "normal" situations!

    Impedance is basically the resistance posed by the speakers electrically....a 4ohm speaker will demand a lot more of the amp in terms of current delivery,and a good amp should be able to double it's power delivery into a 4ohm load.

    A few amps will go on doubling the power output into decreasing loads,such as some of the older Krells and Levinsons,some of which would deliver 800+W into a 1ohm load at about 50Amps.
     
  4. paiger

    paiger
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    The book for my Sony 1080 says it's 100w into 8 ohms and 80w into 4 ohms.

    I guess the problem is that I don't know how much of that power I'm using as I have never (and never will) run it flat out. I suspect that 60w will be fine for me and the amp is bridgable to 3x120 so it would be possible to get another to stick at the back of the room later if it wasn't up to it and have 6x120w.
     
  5. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Are you sure that's not 100w into 4 ohm and 80w into 8 ohm. It's usual for the quoted "power" to be higher driving 4 ohm than when driving 8 ohms.

    Another thing to remember when comparing "watts" on amplifiers ... people like Rotel / NAD / Arcam tend to give a more realistic, often even conservative, rating to their amps, where as companies like Denon / Sony / Yamaha will use a "best case" rating. This often distorts the values so direct comparisons can't easily be made.

    I can't remember the exact figure ... but also remember 40w difference is only something like a 5dB difference in sound level. Yes the Sony is rated at 100w x 6 ... but this is probably RMS into 4 or 6 ohm because this figure looks better to the buying public than saying it's 75w x 6 into 8 ohm (not sure of exact figure ... guessing here ... the spec on www.sony.com doesn't make it very clear!). The rating for the Sony is probably taken with only 2 channels being driven too. The Rotel's 60w x 6 is driving 8 ohms and is with all 6 channels being driven simultaneously ... in fact the Rotel is actually 70w if only 5 channels are being driven. So we're already talking about figures that are a lot closer together.

    If you do buy the RMB1066 and do at a later date find that it is lacking in power ... you can always buy a second one and either bi-amp all your speakers or bridge the amps which (from memory) will give you around 160wpc (x3) out of each of the two RMB1066s.

    I hope this helps ... and I'm sure you'll have many hours of enjoyable sound - both music and movies - with a RSP1066 and RMB1066 driving your Ruarks.


    Victoria



    edited to address quoted issue at the top
     
  6. ditton15

    ditton15
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    What does the 'reference level' actually refer to? Is it the maximum recommended output, ie at 0db?

    And what relevance should we attach to this concept/measurement? I hardly get anyway near 0db before the neighbours form large lynching parties outside the front window.

    ditton
     
  7. sounddog

    sounddog
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    On a THX certified amp ... I believe that the "reference level" should give an output of 75dB.

    Non-THX certified amps decide on their own what their 0dB output level is.

    If I'm wrong here ... I'm sure someone will be able to correct me.


    Victoria
     
  8. HotblackDesiato

    HotblackDesiato
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    It'll vary greatly depending on speaker/room but i hit reference levels around -24dB on the 1080...so i wouldn't think at -40dB you'd be placing too much strain on the system...and even if you were...my Sony 1080 is a much more capable unit with three Cyrus Powers (around 60watts) strapped to its pre-outs, than it is when relying on its own amps...shame i can't hide the Powers from my son's sticky fingers!

    spence
     
  9. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    Reference level is normally considered as output with no attenuation, THX certified kit allows you to set up your speaker level/output at 75db ONLY, this maintains when any THX set-up is callibrated to 75db, that 0db will be Dolby reference and that everyones set-up will produce the same sound pressure at reference level. Non THX kit tends to be less exacting (a bit more hit and miss) with variances to "reference" levels dependant on manufacture.
    Set-up correctly a THX processor at 0db will be the volume you "should" hear it at a THX cinema and mixing studio etc.

    Steve

    For the record i have always thought home THX to be a well thought out practice.
     
  10. ditton15

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    thx. its beginning to make sense to me.

    ditton
     
  11. Robert

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    At 4 ohms, the power rating goes down on the Sony, because the power supply is not capable to deliver 100W on 2 channels at 4 ohms, therefore Wattage goes down, the lower the ohms, the lower the resistance on the speaker side and so more power must be given for the speaker to be driven. When 5 channels are driven all together the wattage again makes a step down. Manufacturers never rate all 5 channels driven together but only 2 channels, so the rating is not that accurate. Most Amps have a switch at the back for the ohmage to be set before being connected to the speakers. This indicates that the power supply is not happy with low impedance speakers. As said above Theoretically speaking whenever the ohmage goes down the wattage is duppled. Few are the manufacturers that adhere with this rules, some of them are the following NAD, KRELL, ARCAM, THX certified equipment Etc.
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Hifi Choice reviews show amp power with all five channels being driven and not the sneaky way that manufacturers do.

    Of the mainstream Japanese amps claims of 100watts normally end up as well under half but some of the others quote more realistic figures to start with and therefore don't suffer so badly.
     
  13. Robert

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    Everyone must adopt this trend! Av amps must be rated with all 5 Amps driven together and not only 2 channels. As some manufacturers make great effort and invest more in internal amps, while others try to impress with several gizmos does compromising in the quality of the internal amps!
     
  14. micb3rd

    micb3rd
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    To quote a previous post of mine...

    Reference level and Home Theater Calibration.

    Why do we calibrate our home theaters, we do this so we can get a balance between the level of speech and all the effects out of the individual speakers

    AV Receivers have a DB counter.

    Having a db counter on an AV receiver is for calibration and balencing to dolby reference, this is acheived buy using a Radioshack SPL meter and special test tones.

    This is mainly done for balancing movie sound.

    The test tones are pink noise recorded at a lower level than full reference, the reason the tones are recorded at a lower level is so you can balance you Home theater with out going deaf in the process.

    The tones are recorded at -20db below reference for AVIA DVD and -30 db below ref for internal tones from an AV Receiver.

    Both DVD and internal test tones methods give the same results.

    The amp it set to 00, the tone is played through each channel and then you balance all speaker channels levels to 75 db.

    1)The point of putting the amp on 0 and calibrating is then you can play movies at -10 and be 10 db below dolby reference level or play at -40 and be 40db below dolby reference.

    2)Full dolby reference is usualy peaks of 105db per channel and 115db for LFE (bass).

    IF you use bass management and run speakers set to small then the LFE and sound below 80hz is passed to the subwoofer and the bass level is bumped up from 115 to 121 db.

    This obvously shows most subs are no way neer up to the job of full dolby reference.

    Full dolby refrence is very loud and can be damaging to you AV kit, if you don't have enough power.
     
  15. ditton15

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    micb3rd

    Many thanks

    ditton
     
  16. James45

    James45
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    i remember reading about one of the jap av amps rated as 100wpc over five channels but only managing 33wpc when all were being driven. I'm not saying a manufacturer cos I not 100per cent sure which it was.
     

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