Question 60hz or 24hz for 4k movies

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jonrud, Dec 16, 2018.


    1. jonrud

      jonrud
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      Hi my problem is that netflix streams 4k movies at 60hz but my player plays them at 24hz is it a setup problem?. my player is a Sony ubp x800, projector is a Optoma UHD51, amp is Denon AVR x2400h. Thanks.
       
    2. Vila

      Vila
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      Your player is outputting the movies correctly at 24p rather than converting to 60hz with 3:2 pulldown
       
    3. jonrud

      jonrud
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      Hi so is 24hz equivalent to 24p? so will the PQ at 24hz be better than 60hz if so why does netflix stream at 60hz?.
       
    4. Vila

      Vila
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      Im not familiar with your projector but most likely yes 24hz will your projectors appropriate mode for correctly displaying 24p material, My projector and TV report Blu Rays ( and films on Netflix from my Apple TV) as being 24p.

      24p is the correct frame rate for film content on Netflix and is 'better' than 60p as it it how film will have been made and not altered in any way through altering or repeating frames.

      'Netflix' so to speak doesn't stream at 60p - it hosts files at a variety of frame rates ; Something like Gavin and Stacey will be 50p... but something like The Fresh Prince Of Bell-Air will be 60p as this is the most appropriate frame rate for UK and US video content.

      Many early netflix capable devices 'put' everything out at 1080 60p but increasingly better devices will switch frame rates to match the source.
       
    5. mossym

      mossym
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      P and hz are not the same thing. There is no 24p apart from maybe a watch.

      Hz is how many times the image is refreshed a second.

      P stands for progressive and is related to how many lines of resolution are on your screen, p meaning all lines are refreshed at the same time rather than i where every second line is refreshed at a time.
       
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    6. mossym

      mossym
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      There is no 24p, 50p or 60p .You are confusing hz and p . And they cannot be interchanged
       
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    7. Vila

      Vila
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      They can indeed mean different things, but if you pick up any modern camera from a Sony to an Arri it will be set for 24p, 50p, 50i, 60p or 60i

      There certainly is '24p' and it is widely used as the term meaning the video signal is shot at 23.976 fps and is also the term used at consumer level when blu ray was introduced to show the frame rate was unaltered and many televisions an projectors use this terminology to express frame rate input.

      Given were talking about about a DLP projector its entirely possible that in reality it is running everything at 120hz converted - but that would probably just serve to confuse matters in a thread asking about frame rates from a streaming box.
       
      Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    8. jonrud

      jonrud
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      Hi no I am not asking about frame rates it refresh rates I am interested in. The projector maxes out at 70hz, my question was that Netflix shows films at 60hz but my player shows them when playing a 4k disk at 24hz although the player is capable of 60hz playback, do I have a setup problem.
       
    9. Vila

      Vila
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      Lets start with this .... Its doesn't.
       
    10. jonrud

      jonrud
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      It does when I play a 4k movie from Netflix just before the film start in the top left hand corner it says 2160 at 60 hz. So what does that mean??.
       
    11. jonrud

      jonrud
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      Just checked online all Netflix media is streamed at 60hz. You should do your homework before answering questions.
       
    12. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      A higher 'Framerate' is not as desirable as a faster bike :)unless the content is mastered at the higher frame rate!

      Disc and streaming services can toggle between 60fps and '24p' as you transition from menus into the actual Movie - ideally you want your playback system to stick with the native frame rate of the content you are viewing.

      If your streaming service/device is converting everything to a 'global' format that is usually less desirable as it can introduce visible artifacts - though some folk will put up with hours and hours of 'the wrong format' in preference to seeing their display device reformatting as the content format changes.

      As others highlight even where you ensure you keep your content in its native format through the playback chain it can be tricky to then work out what the Display device is doing with the content - no matter what the onscreen ident says (it usually indicates the Input format not the playback format).

      Joe
       
    13. Vila

      Vila
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      Like most people there is always more for me to learn but i did my basic homework a long time ago, beyond being a fellow home cinema enthusiast the last project I worked on involving Netflix was delivered at 50p not 60hz... but thanks for the insult.

      Your Blu Ray player is almost certainly the most likely culprit - its performing 3:2 pulldown on film material converting 24 frames into 29.97 (or basically 30p) This will then run at 60hz

      This is considered undesirable - but most people don't even notice it.

      Other players (my apple tv for example) will switch between 24p 50p 60p depending on the content.
       
    14. Chinstroke

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      Netflix does definitely stream in the native frame rate and in actual fact has Test Patterns (just search test patterns in your account to find them) to show you what your device is doing with the stream. The test patterns include 4k24 along with 4k60. As part of the technical specifications for submitting material to Netflix they have to be provided in original aspect ratio, original frame rate and at the highest available quality. The problem is that some players are not able to support these frame rates so for example the Nvidia shield only outputs 60hz on the Netflix app. This was also originally the case for the Apple TV but an update about a year ago fixed this issue.
       
    15. jonrud

      jonrud
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      That was not an insult try Googling it and you will see for yourself it 60hz. You say it's undesirable but the PQ at 60hz is better than the 24hz picture.
       
    16. andy1249

      andy1249
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      Netflix streams content at its original frame rate.
      See here
      Test Patterns | Netflix

      TVs will show the input format only when you press the info button.
      They generally dont say what processing they apply to incoming content.

      Note: almost all menu screens on services and players are at 50 or 60 fps.
      This will change when actual content is being played.
      Movies are usually 23.976 ( most will call this 24 for brevity)
      Displays have various methods for handling 24p content.
      Fps does not = hz
      They use either “pull down” methods or show each frame multiple times depending on the displays refresh and processing capabilities.
      See here
      24p - Wikipedia
       
      Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
    17. Roku2

      Roku2
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      Incorrect. You can change settings from 60Hz to 24Hz from the main menu (same as with Roku Ultra)
       
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    18. Chinstroke

      Chinstroke
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      Thanks for that, I reckon that's why many users are having issues with them because they haven't changed the settings.
       
    19. KenMasters

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      60Hz output is worse for film content because 24 doesn't fit into 60 - frames are repeated at an uneven 3 then 2 then 3 again pacing.

      Netflix does offer content at its native frame rate, but it's up to your source device to output it correctly. Your Sony player is outputting content correctly to your projector, as your projector is reporting.

      That is not to say that your projector is physically updating at 24Hz, it's just reporting on the incoming signal, it could well be displaying at something like 120Hz, because 24fps fits evenly into 120 (repeating five frames at a time for an even pacing).
       
    20. jonrud

      jonrud
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      Hi so it not a problem to leave the setting as they are with Netflix streaming showing 60hz and when playing a 4k disk at 24hz. All i was asking at the beginning of the thread was, is there a setting on the sony player that would lift the 4k disk playing from 24hz to 60hz. In my opinion the 60hz gives a better picture on my setup.
       
    21. xavster

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      I’m sure you can change the output frame rate to 60hz, but you will get judder which is most noticeable on panning shots.
       
    22. ChuckMountain

      ChuckMountain
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      What is better on the picture out of interest?

      Depending on the player you may be able to tell the player the manual resolutions it supports so you want to switch off the "24p" ones and that will force the player to output in a different mode.

      As others have correctly stated that is not a good thing.

      If you look at a panning shot at 24 fps it should be smoothed if displayed correctly at 24 fps.

      If you take it and reformat to 60 fps then the smooth panning shot will become stuttery. Once you notice it you will be wanting to set it back to 24...
       
    23. Roku2

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      Not all streaming devices or BD players offer the option to switch from 60Hz playback to 24Hz playback, at least not in the US. Most lower end/older devices are 60Hz only, so that means that if you play a program originally in 24Hz the device will rely on 3:2 pulldown rather than 5:5. Apple 4K TV, Roku Ultra, and Nvidia Shield are some of the latest higher end devices that have the capability to switch refresh rate. As far as BD playes goes, most of them but nit all, also have that feature
       
    24. KenMasters

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      I'm sure there probably is an option to force 60Hz, but you don't want that - you want the image displayed at its native frame rate otherwise you'll get judder (the incorrect frame pacing I was talking about).

      The display should report 60Hz for 30fps content, 50Hz for 25fps content and 24Hz for 24fps content. 60Hz will not result in a better picture for 24fps content.
       
    25. EntryLevel

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      This is actually very topical: as avforums (and other news outlets, including the BBC) have recently reported, the content creator (studio/director) often intended the media to be viewed at 24 <whatever unit was agreed on>.

      It sounds like your kit is trying to give you it in that format.

      Not saying you are wrong for preferring it in 60 <units>, as preference is subjective, but you need to be aware that you are going to be forcing an output that is different than intended.
       
    26. Roku2

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      Here is another scenario for you guys:
      1. My source is in 24Hz and my device is capable of outputting at 24Hz or 60Hz (manually changing it from the main menu)
      2. My projector is 60Hz ONLY
      Would I be better off still setting my device at 24Hz or set it at 60Hz?
       
    27. KenMasters

      KenMasters
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      In that case you wouldn't see a difference between competent devices, since the content is being slotted into 60Hz either way.
       
    28. Vila

      Vila
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      Reading between the lines of the conflicting description of what is happening his player is converting all Netflix material and his projector reporting the signal as 60hz

       
    29. jonrud

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      Hi the picture seems to be much more clearer and more detailed than the one on the disk at 24hz. To me the the [email protected] at the top of the screen just before the film starts is referring to the output and refresh rate of the projector not the frames per second. So does a higher refresh rate alter the FPS output.
       
    30. Vila

      Vila
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