600hz

C

chiris m

Guest
hey there, this may sound like a stupid question but,

i have just bought a 50" plasma 1080p 3d 600hz tele,
but when i am watching sky it says its in 50hz

and when im on xbox its saying im in 60hz

so without sounding stupid have i just bought a 600hz tele for no reason as nothing runs this good quality

or is it running at its peak but im to stupid to get my head round it

anyone help haha

chris
 

t1m103

Active Member
its telling you the source input frequency,i.e the xbox is being input to your tv at 60hz.
 

virtual_boy

Well-known Member
600hz is sales and marketing blurb, plasmas have naturally high response times so don't need the 120hz or 200hz tech of LCD screens to combat motion blur.
Plasma uses 8 or 10 sub fields with each sub field running at 60fps so a plasma with 10 sub fields give you 10x60 which gives you your 600hz, to your eye there will be no difference between this and an older 480hz (8x60) for example.
 

Dinky Dragon

Well-known Member
Dear lord I imagine the input lag would be nasty on that.

I wish we got 60hz broadcasts over here :( My advice to you would be to disable the 600hz (if you can) when gaming.
 

turk3y

Well-known Member
why would you disable it, I don't believe it is any more than the new dick waving sales number now the average punter knows contrast ratios have little relevance to real world performance.
LCDs create new fields with black bars (I believe) to scroll through the image as the pixels twist and change to block the light during this transition to reduce the visible blur, this figure for plasma sounds like its generated from some dubious stats so they can compete with marketing material, although I could be wrong.
 

virtual_boy

Well-known Member
To expand on my first post it's nothing to do with refresh rate or motion blur as with LCD, the TV will most likely be 60hz but plasmas have an almost instant pixel refresh rate due to how they work, with newer TV's this can be as low as 0.001ms.
With plasma each pixel generates it's own light but only for a tiny amount of time (ms), the sub field drive repeatedly sends the pixel electric pulses to keep it lit for the duration of the frame.
So if the sub field drive lights each pixel 10 times per frame at 60 frames per second then that is 10x60 which gives you your 600hz, the idea is better images and smoother motion between frames as the pixel brightness does not decrease as fast during a frame or it's transition to the next.
As I said originally it's just marketing blurb, people think more is better but you can't see a difference between a TV with an 8 sub field drive (480hz) and one with 10 (600hz).
 
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mattclarkie

Distinguished Member
why would you disable it

Because the TV is spending huge amounts of processing time inventing 10 new 'fields' for every one 'frame' in the input source (assuming it uses temporal extrapolation), and it will be making lots of mistakes.

Although it is likely running at '200hz' and using blinking to multiply that up.

So it will be introducing huge amounts of lag, and making your picture worse.
 
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virtual_boy

Well-known Member
It isn't using any processing time 'inventing' anything nor is it introducing lag, a Plasma TV has near instantaneous response times, a Plasma TV running at 60fps means that each frame has to be displayed for 1/60 (about 17ms) but the pixels of a plasma TV only stay lit for about 2ms so to display a single frame for 1/60 seconds the sub field is pulsed multiple times to keep the pixel bright.
When the frame does have to change to the next the ultra-fast response times of the pixels means almost instantaneous transition to the next frame.
 

Dinky Dragon

Well-known Member
So why are Plasmas so bad for gaming? :S
 

virtual_boy

Well-known Member
Plasma is great for gaming, it was the case that older plasma screens suffered from burn in (image retention is a different issue), low brightness and reflective glass covered screens, they also used huge amounts of energy and had high phosphor wear resulting in relatively short panel life but newer TV's have no burn in, higher brightness (although not as high as LCD), non-reflective coatings, low power consumption and 100,000+ hour panel life.
Plasma still isn't amazing in brightly lit conditions but many people play in the evenings or simply close the curtains, also many gamers did and still do play on screens less than 32" and if you are lucky enough to find a plasma screen of this size it will be more expensive than its LCD equivalent.
 
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Dinky Dragon

Well-known Member
They are best for movies and sport...

Why didnt I buy a cheap ass plasma...

Hell why are Plasmas so cheap compared to LCD?
 

virtual_boy

Well-known Member
But why are they best for movies? Fantastic image quality, wide viewing angles and true blacks.
and why are they best for sport? Zero motion blur and almost instant response times.
This being the case why wouldn't you want to use plasma for gaming?

Why didn't you buy a cheaper plasma? I don't know but it may be down to the fact LCD technology is constantly being improved (usually to improve refresh rates and reduce motion blur) and the large amount of promotion that follows often makes it look like it's the best but fact is LCD always has and still is playing catch-up with plasma.

Why are plasmas so cheap? It's basically down to manufacturing costs, the development and implementation of all this new LCD tech doesn't get absorbed by the manufacturer, it just gets passed on to the consumer.

Fwiw it seems plasma is also as good as if not better than LCD at displaying 3D, I'm 99% sure my next tv is going to be plasma.
 
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Dinky Dragon

Well-known Member
haha Gav! Ive only had my new set for 5 months and Im getting second thoughts already!

I need medical help :p

Plasma for me next!
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
But why are they best for movies? Fantastic image quality, wide viewing angles and true blacks.
and why are they best for sport? Zero motion blur and almost instant response times.
This being the case why wouldn't you want to use plasma for gaming?

Why didn't you buy a cheaper plasma? I don't know but it may be down to the fact LCD technology is constantly being improved (usually to improve refresh rates and reduce motion blur) and the large amount of promotion that follows often makes it look like it's the best but fact is LCD always has and still is playing catch-up with plasma.

Why are plasmas so cheap? It's basically down to manufacturing costs, the development and implementation of all this new LCD tech doesn't get absorbed by the manufacturer, it just gets passed on to the consumer.

Fwiw it seems plasma is also as good as if not better than LCD at displaying 3D, I'm 99% sure my next tv is going to be plasma.
Ive had the Panasonic 55" VT30 game lag is around 20ms when compared to a lag free CRT, and now I have the 64" D8000 plasma lag is around 30ms compared to a lag free CRT.
For me plasma is the way to go for gaming. I use to be a LED/LCD fanboy but making the switch is night and day. The smoother motion thanks to the extra lines of motion resoloution (LED/LCD around 700line, plasma 900-1080).
3D is great, and my movie collection is growing slowly.
3D gaming is good but is very hit and miss, some titles seem like they were rushed to get 3D stamped on the box and it shows.

EDIT: Taken from AVF 50" VT30 review
The VT30 offers an excellent gaming experience and an approximate lag time of around 22ms.
Taken from HDTVTest 65" D8000 review
The input lag with the “PC” input label, or the “Game Mode” enabled, was 31ms in both cases
 
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Dinky Dragon

Well-known Member
Ugh, Ive seen the D8000 in PC and Game mode...

What a joke for such an expensive set! Ill certainly not be the last Samsung fanboy to admit that they are going backwards when it comes to gaming :(
 

Insanity202

Distinguished Member
Ugh, Ive seen the D8000 in PC and Game mode...

What a joke for such an expensive set! Ill certainly not be the last Samsung fanboy to admit that they are going backwards when it comes to gaming :(
The settings in game mode do need some tinkering to make it look decent but theres still plenty of options to get it looking good.
For one I put the cell light down, contrast down and brightness down, they were all way too high...eye burners :laugh:.
After around 10mins of tinkering I got the image to look great in Game mode. Just need to get my paws on meter to do a proper calibration of this set.
 

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