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576p/50Hz via Panasonic DVI board - definitive answer PLEASE!!!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by cbemoore, Nov 26, 2004.

  1. cbemoore

    cbemoore
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    I've spent practically all day reading old threads to find out whether the Panasonic 6-series DVI board will accept a 576p signal at 50Hz. No-one has given a definitive answer! Instead, I've read the following conflicting "facts"

    1) 576p@50Hz doesn't work, but 575p@50Hz does work (this seems to be the most popular opinion, and is also what Panasonic officially state)

    2) 576p@50Hz does work, but the panel reclocks it internally to 60Hz leading to motion judder.

    3) 576p@50Hz does work, but not with a Pioneer DV-868 because the Pioneer actually outputs 572p@50Hz instead.

    4) 576p@50Hz does work, but only using a Lumagen scaler.

    Can someone please tell me which of these statements is correct?

    More specifically, I'm hoping to buy a Samsung DVD-HD945, which will output 576p at 50Hz. Does anyone know if this will work or not?

    Cheers
    Chris
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    1: As you can get it working at 576P@50Hz from programmeable devices this would seem to be incorrect

    2: This is definately incorrect

    3: Don;t have 868 so can't comment

    4: Other folk seem to have used alternate devices other than Lumagens to get 576P@50Hz working so this would seem to be incorrect to.

    Gordon
     
  3. cbemoore

    cbemoore
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    So you're saying that 576p/50Hz actually works perfectly, even though Panasonic only officially support 575p/50Hz? :confused:

    Is the whole problem a myth because Panasonic have made a printing error in the manual??

    (BTW, I know there are other problems with feeding native resolution via DVI at 50Hz, but that's a completely different kettle of fish!!)

    Thanks for your help,

    Chris
     
  4. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    cbemoore

    575P(50) is not a printing error - its simply the signal Panasonic choose to say they support; and I think you'll find a Panasonic Broadcast VTR or Camera will be outputting 575P(50).

    As Gordon says there are plenty of folk running 576P(50) into the TY-42TM6DB Terminal board on 6 Series displays - though possibly its easier to get things working on the 7 Series HD Display than previously with the 6 Series SD Displays.

    I have Lumagen and DVDO programmable processors into the DVI card on a PHD7 and a Denon DVD-3910 worked first time at 576P(50) on the same Display - if I have time tonight I'll try a Pioneer DV-868AVi.

    I've not tested any of this with a PW7 so cant say if you'll have the same results or not.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  5. Chris5

    Chris5
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    Thanks for that Gordon, You've really cleared that up ;)
    To add further confusion, I've read that:

    1. not all DVI card/panny6 plasma combinations behave consistantly (from card to card).

    2. Sadly the Pioneer 868 HDMI/Panasonic6 combination does not work (for whatever reason)

    3. MAW & co seem to be getting more favourable results with DVI/Panny7 plasmas

    4. Panny7 + HDMI card is nearly here! yipieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :smashin: but may not work either :thumbsdow only time will tell :)


    EDIT , sorry, Joe beat me to the reply :blush:
     
  6. Chris5

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    Thanks Joe, It would be really useful to know how th 868 behaves (or not) with a series 7. can you please say if it is with a 50" or 42" when you post your answer.

    Thanks.

    Chris.
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    OK lets clear it up even more.....

    When you feed a signal to a Panasonic display it loads up a memory bank of settings in the backgound. These memories are named for different signal types. Progressive signals from a R2 DVD are called 625P. 625 signifies the number of lines in the signal. Of those 625 around 576 may be active picture iniformation. The rest is blanking etc. If you think of a large picture frame with a smaller pcture inside it that is a bit like how this all works. The large area is the total info sent and the small picture inside is the bit we want to see. How far off each edge, left right top bottom, can be different for the same size of internal image.....ie it could be near left edge on one signal then mirrored wiith the signal near right edge on another. The distance from top/bottom/right/left is defined in the timing info of the signal.

    I think the problem comes in that some manufcturers have 576P(625) signals which don;t have timings that the D6 DVI is recognising. This is speculation. I know there is a memory bank for it in the dispay as I can get it to load up with a Lumagen but I can't get my DV79 to work with it.

    From chatting wiith Joe I think that the DV board for 7 seres s the same as 6 series (part number and everything).

    So I think the definative answer is that the plasma accepts 625P@50Hz signals although not from all devices.

    Gordon
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    I'm running 720?60 at the moment, but as I'm demoing it this PM I daresay we will try some other resolutions/timings.
     
  9. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    Don't you just hate Digital Video!

    I do - having spent most of the night fiddling with:
    1 x Panasonic TH-50PHD7BSJ Display
    1 x Panasonic TY-42TM6DB DVI card
    1 x DVDO iScanHD
    1 x Pioneer DV-868AVi

    As reported before I can get 576P(50) out of a Denon DVD-3910, Lumagen VisionDVI and DVDO iScanHD with relatively little hassle (now I know what to do).

    Unfortunately the Pioneer DV-868AVi and the TY-42TM6DB DVI board are obviously not soul mates and its nothing to do with 575(50) or 576(50).

    The Panasonic DVI card is taking control of the Pioneer DVD player and asking it to output signals the DVI card cant display.

    No matter if I reset the DVD player to output 480i, 576i, 480P, 576P, 720P or 1080i the DVI card resets it to 480i or 576i depending on what the last DVD I had in the player was and for whatever reason the Display then cant show these signals and reports them as 'unknown' in the Service menu.

    The rub (and its a big RUB) being that:
    01. Whilst the DVD player is firing up from standby you do get a nice clean Pioneer 'Splash' screen for a few seconds at 576P - until the DVI card takes hold of the DVD player.

    02. If I keep the Display in one of its Service modes I can 'see' the DVD player on screen without any problems and can go in and set it to output 480i, 576i, 480P, 576P, 720P and sit and watch a Movie with no problems - apart from the Service Menu sitting atop the picture and as soon as I come out of the Service menu the DVI card resets the DVD player to its 480i (VGA) mode.

    So a bit of discussion with Pioneer and Panasonic will ensue on Monday and I'll also try one of our Gefen DVI Detectives mid week next week to see if I can stop the DVI card taking hold of the DVD player - we've used the DVI Detective to great affect with a few projectors that were being problematic with certain signals and sources.

    See http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1378

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  10. cbemoore

    cbemoore
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    Hi Joe,

    Interesting to hear about your experiences with the 868! Let us know how you get on with your testing...

    And thanks to Gordon and MAW for your comments - it looks like I'll just have to try the Samsung and see whether it works or not.....

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  11. Chris5

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    Thanks Joe, keep up the good work
     
  12. MAW

    MAW
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    I too was playing today. I can get all sorts of non useful numbers. The bottom line with my PHD7 42 is that whilst with an iscan HD I can get a picture at 576p/50, it's too big for the screen, huge amounts of overscan, way outside the adjustment range. At 720/50, no picture, 1080i/50 fine, but not as good as analogue native @75Hz. So I'm in the digital video haters club too, but then you all knew that before. Currently watching HPaPoA with kids, analogue XGA at 75 Hz. Excellent.
     
  13. Mojito

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    Joe, did you check the firmware verison on the 868? Pioneer has a new firmware for 868 (v 1.15) which is supposed to fix some issues with digital output. I wonder if upgrading the player software could fix the problem with Panasoic DVI board?
     
  14. jrosado

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    cbemoore:

    if you ever try the samsung (if get one), please let me know how it was, since i might be interested in connect a samsung to my DVI on my Panny PW6.

    Regards,

    J. Rosado
     
  15. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    Finally getting somewhere - though the result may not be the one we all want to hear.

    575/576 is a Red herring - in fact I can now say the TY-42TM6DB DVI card is compatible with a 576 signal - they just don't put it in the specs.

    The issues between the Pioneer DV-868AVi DVD player and Panasonic TY-42TM6DB DVI card are to do with Digital Handshaking and issues with First Generation HDMI Drivers in the DVD player not talking to the DVI Receiver in the Plasma Display.

    Having spoken with Pioneer UK I doubt were likely to see this resolved in the DV-868AVI (which use the 'first generation' HDMI hardware) - though the replacement models (Not sure when in 05) will use the new second generation HDMI hardware and will hopefully not have the same problems we are encountering on the DV-868AVi.

    I'd also 'guess' this problem will not be a problem if you stick the upcoming HDMI Board in a 7 Series Display.

    Using the latest firmware release from Lumagen which lets us switch on and off a few parameters in the Digital Video signal and combining those parameter changes with using non Macrovision protected DVD's in the DV-868AVi player (therefore not invoking HDCP) I can pass the HDMI signal from the DV-868AVi to the Panasonic Display via the Lumagen at 576P, 720P and 1080i.

    I'll send some notes to Pioneer UK and see if they can look at any 'updates' for the DV-868AVi to resolve this problem - otherwise for those who want to partner a DV-868AVi with a 7 Series Panasonic Display the HDMI card may be the way forward (though not ideal if you want to use an external Video Processor to achieve Native Rate scaling in the Video Processor)

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  16. gstadt

    gstadt
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    Everyone

    would it be reasonable to expect that the new Panasonic HDMi S97 DVD player would not encounter the problems listed above. I only ask as I'm on the verge of hooking one up HDMi -> DVi to the DVi board on a PW6?

    Gstadt
     

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