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50mx01/ 43mx01 Frc....

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Gordon @ Convergent AV, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Just to let folk know that I spent a while at Joe's today and we got 50Hz dot for dot 1024x768 working in to the 43MX01 with no tearing. This was with Mode2 FRC. I believe ti converts 50Hz to 100Hz.

    We also got same res at 59.94 working as well and it appears to refresh at 59.94 I think with no frame rate conversion from panel.

    Gordon

    P.S. This was from a Lumagen HDP via DVI
     
  2. bartbs

    bartbs
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    That's good news gordon, thanks for the info. Did you notice any change in color
    when you feed the 43mx01 dvi pc signals . This happens on my 503mxe. The color just gets noticable less (dims) when you feed it dvi/pc.

    Bart
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    We only tried DVI. We sent s-video from SkyPlus to Lumagen and YPrPb from an RGBtoComponent convertor direct to plasma. There was no comparison for colour fidelity. The DVI feed from the Lumagen was MILES better.

    It was necessary to make large adjustments to the brightness setting of the scaler to get black level down to correct setting for the DVI input. Of course if the brightness is not set correctly then you are going to get a washed out unsaturated image like you describe.

    Gordon
     
  4. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    bartbs

    On top of video and PC signals having differing black start points I'm pretty sure Pioneer are 'protecting' the phosphors when you go in on DVI with a PC signal - as you say 'power' output is dropped a fair bit to start with.

    I do hope JiMbob_74 is not reading this thread - Y/C outperforming YUV - not possible he screams!!!

    Ticker Tape on Bloomberg never looked so smooth!

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS FRC Mode 3 is for 24 FPS Video cameras in a TV studio!!!
     
  5. bartbs

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    Hi Joe, but when you feed the plasma, dvi in, from a scaler, native, it will always think it is a pc signal or not? I tried the iscan hd on my Pio503mxe and got this result. (less power output).

    " Ticker Tape on Bloomberg never looked so smooth!" Is this from a scaler, dvi, native at 50hz.? On the Pio 43 or 50mxe1?

    Thanks,
    Bart
     
  6. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello bartbs

    Correct - which is why you do have to be ready to reset all of your picture settings and not simply flick between DVI and say RGBHV via the BNC input; the DVI In with a 'PC signal' will need a fair amount of re tweaking.

    We've now had a limited amount of time with the 50 and 43MXE1 being fed a signal from a SKY+ box via the LumagenHDP and its the best combination I've worked with so far.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  7. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Gordon,

    Having calibrated both ED and HD pannys, what are your thoughts on the 43MX01?
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Well I've not calibrated the 43 and 50 MX01's. I just spent time trying to see what refresh rates and resolutions we could get to work with them.

    My own thoughts are that I am looking forward to having a go with the 43 or 50MX01's calibrations. Then see some more programming on them. If you see my 42"SD Panny for sale then you will have youor answer.

    Gordon
     
  9. rscott4563

    rscott4563
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    Hi Andrew, I've been trying to ge in touch with you, you have email and PM, could you get back to me soon..

    Cheers

    Ryan
     
  10. bartbs

    bartbs
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    Same problem form me. What plasma can take native from a scaler, dvi, 50hz without framerateconvertion (judder) to 60 or 70hz?. I also learned from Pioneer that the 50MXE1 dos not accept 50hz native, dvi, without converting it to 60hz.
    I think i will wait for the new fujitsu 50" (q4 2004) and just live without a scaler unless somebody can realy confirm that the new Pio does take native, dvi 50hz without convertion.

    Bart
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    There are three FRC settings. Normal (converts certain resolutions and refresh rates to 70ish Hz (I am sure the native resolution of the panel is included in these resolutions))
    Mode2: Converts certain 50Hz incoming signals to 100Hz and leaves 59.94Hz/60Hz alone
    Mode 3: Allows playback of 24FPS and 25FPS signals from HD camera's with no conversion (I believe)

    We fed 50" 1280x768 we fed 43" 1024x768. Not enough time with 50 to fully understand what it was doing. 43" looked like it was doing fine on dot to dot aspect being fed these resolutions via DVI at these refresh rates. Both looked much better than previous MXE's to me.

    More time is necessary to understand everything about these. The full abilities of FRC etc is not listed in the user manuals.

    Best I can give you just now.

    G
     
  12. bamber

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    Had time to play with my 50MXE-1 on Saturday and got 50Hz 1280x768 mode 2 WXGA DVI working, hadn't spotted this post.

    Pans are as smooth as I've seen on any plasma, as Gordon/Joe mentioned it takes a bit of tweaking to get blacks and colours back to where they should be.

    The new Beta Lumagens are very good, I only got occasional breakups on my digibox RGBS. Can't wait to see how much better it gets as they release further updates.

    Gordon may book your services if you ever feel like a trip over to NI.
     
  13. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello gazza982

    Just wait until the 'Speccy' one (well he does always play that damned Insurrection disc) comes over with his ISF hat on - you'll be blown away by what he can achieve.

    Maybe we can try and organise a few folk in Northern and Southern Ireland for an ISF and HAA Calibration trip.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  14. bamber

    bamber
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    An excellent idea Joe there must be a few members from Ireland that need this service. It would make the trip over worthwhile, put me on the list if it happens.

    Regards

    Garry
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Yeah Gazza I think I will be coming over your way. I have some dealers from CEDIA I would like to chat with and I have some folk who have enquired about ISF. So who knows maybe Joe and I will come over for a little Guinness appreciation trip.

    G
     
  16. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    If you used an DVDO iScan HD for testing, rather than Lumagen, you could use the "judder" test patter and really see if there is any tearing or judder resulting from frame-rate conversion. :)

    This sounds like really excellent development, now if only Panasonic would get their DVI into line too. :rolleyes:

    StooMonster
     
  17. SimonO

    SimonO
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    Hello Gordon/anyone with an MXE1... Are you really sure that FRC Mode 2 converts 50Hz to 100Hz..? The reason I ask is that to my eyes I get flicker in FRC Mode 2 with a 50Hz source whilst FRC Mode 1 is rock solid... Not very scientific I know, but if I hadn't read this thread I would have put money on 50Hz > 50Hz and 60Hz > 60Hz in FRC Mode 2... Maybe I just need my eyes tested.!? :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  18. Piers

    Piers
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    Gordon / Joe

    How I missed this thread until today I will never know! Getting enquires from Ireland here as well. Are you guys on for a 3 way assault on the Emerald Isle?

    Piers

    Home Cinema Engineering
    www.homecinemaengineering.com
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Hi Simon,

    You may be right. I was just speculating as I couldn't see flicker myself at any settings. If you can then it's qute likely 50Hz. My oldest colouromitor could read refresh rates but my new one doesn't so I cant measure it with anythiing.

    Gordon
     
  20. Piers

    Piers
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    Simon,

    My kit will measure the refresh rate if you need confirmation.

    Piers
     
  21. JensH

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    Could it be 75Hz?

    I remember setting a PC once to 75Hz gave a slight flicker on the screen, at least to my eyes. Changing it to 76Hz made it disappear, so it was just on the edge of what I could see.

    Could someone with an MXE-1 try to test it? I measured the refresh frequency of my 503MXE by using an oscilloscope. I simply connected the ground wire of the probe to the tip of the probe, effectively giving a coil that can pick up magnetic fields. Holding it close to the screen it was possible to find a pattern with a period of 14.3ms, equivalent to a frequency of 70Hz.

    Jens
     
  22. SimonO

    SimonO
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    Yeah the more I look at it the more I think it's 50Hz... Anyone with an iScan HD care to try the judder test pattern at 50Hz, 60Hz, 72Hz and 75Hz in FRC Mode 2..? This panel is fantastic BTW, even Sky looks good!!!
     
  23. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    What panel are you refering too? What is the 'judder' like? How noticeable on DVD and digital TV?
     
  24. JudgeyK

    JudgeyK
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    Did you guy's get any further with these settings on the 43-MXE1 and the lumagen HDP ?

    Cheers
     
  25. loonatic

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    Well I have been talking to Pioneer and according to them FRC mode 2 only allows 50Hz and 60Hz sources for a start...so 72Hz or 75Hz sources just won't show...and this I can confirm.

    So in FRC mode 2 if fed either a Video or PC 50Hz source then it gets converted to 100Hz whilst Video or PC 60Hz sources remain at 60Hz.

    When in FRC mode 1, Video 50Hz sources are displayed at 75Hz and again Video 60Hz sources remain at 60Hz...PC 60Hz sources are converted to 70Hz..PC 50Hz sources are not supported.

    If you want 72Hz then you have to use FRC mode 3 which when fed a PC 48Hz source gets converted to 96Hz whilst a PC 72Hz source remains at 72Hz...any other refresh rates are not displayed.

    I also have the specific timings for mode 2 as follows :

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Cheers, Lee
     
  26. SimonO

    SimonO
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    I'm still not convinced that FRC mode 2 is that simple as I can see the screen flicker with a 50Hz source but can't in mode 1... Anyway, mode 1 and 2 both look good to my eyes...
     

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