5.x.2 atmos advice on speaker placement with 120" projection screen

Reldvs1

Novice Member
Hello everyone,
I'm looking for some advice.
I am putting in a home theater in my living room that consists of a 120" projection screen that comes down over a 50" wall TV.
I am installing a 5.2.2 but one of those ". 2", the sub channel, I'm not sure is really that but that's not where the problem is at.
Ok so the advice I need is speaker placement.
I'm using monopole speakers and I have wall mounted speaker stands for the ceiling atmos because I can't cut holes in ceiling.
The stands jut out from the wall approx 15"and allow full articulation.
I need to know locations for those "ceiling" atmos speakers.
I also need advice about how high I can mount my front speakers for a screen as large as mine, as well as the center speaker as well and also the surrounds.
My room is a rectangle that is 16' long by 14' wide. My couch is against the back wall and makes an L.
I know that ideally I need to move the couch away from the wall but I'm not sure the wife will go for it. So that puts viewing at about 14.5' after taking into account the thickness of couch and how far away from wall the screen is.
I'm in great need of advice for the best 5.x.2 atmos speaker placement.
I've tried to make a rough drawing of the layout and I'm adding it but I apologize that they are not done but it gives you an idea of the front stage of my sound. Also there is a board in front of projecting screen casement that I could potentially mount speakers to.

UPDATED PIC TO SHOW POSSIBLE SPEAKER LOCATIONS... Working on getting better pics of area but this is all I have for now.
On the left in drawing is a stain glass window and door. On the right are also two doors.

Red for speakers... LR could also be on ground on stands but center will have to be up high because there is a bench that goes in if tv marked in yellow.
Gray for speaker wall brackets mounted close to ceiling for atmos ". 2"
Blue is the L couch ....rears surrounds would be on wall behind L couch, not sure how high, that's why I'm here. Either on wall at ease level angled at mlp or up higher on wall, not sure yet
Green is a long table
 

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Reldvs1

Novice Member
Thanks. But I was kinda hoping for more. I thought this was a place to ask questions and if you are detailed and well worded you would be more likely to get help.
But that help is like asking how to lose weight and someone says follow the guidelines that Weight Watchers has.
So thanks for the very vague and not very useful help.
So I'm gonna continue in hopes of something more.
I've heard that the guidelines are different for monopole speakers.
That putting them at ear level when close to mlp may be to harsh on the ears.
Plus I can't mount my center channel at ear height. May have to be above the TV on the board across the screen casing.
Will this be ok if I aim at mlp?
Can I mount my LR speakers the same way, up high angled at mlp?
Will having my mlp back so far make it easier to mount LCR speakers up higher because they will disperse more?
Thanks for the comment but I'm kinda looking for more than a vague one sentence.
I took time to construct my thread, was hoping someone could take more time to help me.
I have read the dolby guidelines, I have read threads and I see answers vary by each diy home theater build and many variables come into play, this is why I am seeking guidance from people with hands on experience in real world conditions.
I hope someone else with more than one sentence can chime in, or this feels like a huge waste of my time trying to be so detailed writing this.
 

Harkon321

Well-known Member
Maybe, if you’d added the detail that you’ve just added, then people would know the compromises you face. I wasn’t trying to be vague but you didn’t mention any issues that couldn’t accommodate Dolby guidelines. (Neither did you mention that you had read them). Let’s put that behind us.
Monopole speakers need space. If you are closer than a metre or two then triple/bipolar/dipole May work better. If you’re set on using monopole and they are close, then mount them above ear height, about 2ft above.
Best set up is likely to be 5.1.2 if you want upward firing speakers (as you can’t do ceiling speakers)

Below TV is better than above, to avoid ceiling reflections. It can work but LCR at same or similar height gives far far better panning. Mounting left and right height up isn’t ideal.
 

Reldvs1

Novice Member
Ok... Thanks for more info.
I too have added another drawing and updated my original post.
Monopole is a must because I'm reusing older speakers.
While I can't do ceiling mounted. I can do very high up on wall, almost to ceiling and they stick out 15" from wall to center of room. So not technically in ceiling, they can be very close.
I can't do below TV for center channel. But I can do about foot below ceiling for center so it's not right up against ceiling, might even be able to go a bit lower.
As for R and L.... I could mount them at same height as center, up high about the same as center, would that help?
There's pretty much no way for me to bring the center speaker down lower because of the bench in front of TV. See the updated crude drawing lol.
I could put the LR speakers on stands at each end of the 120" screen but that put them on floor at ear level and my center above TV. Again I'm not sure I can bring center down any lower.
But you said raising monopole up 2 feet are better so if ear level is about 36" could I potentially mount LR speakers at 5 feet up? That would bring my center within approximately 2 ft of center speaker if mounted above tv.
What do you think?
And thank you for providing me with more info. Sorry that I didn't provide enough detail before, when you told me why you didn't provide me with more info, it let me know that I needed to add more details which I'm doing now.
Thanks again for the longer reply.
 

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gibbsy

Moderator
If you wish to have Atmos then it's pretty important to have the base 5.1 speakers at or just above a seated head height. It has to be that way so that there is separation between that base level and the Atmos domain. Have the base speakers too high, say more than 50% of the ceiling height and you could lose the Atmos in with the base level.
 

Reldvs1

Novice Member
How high on your ceilings?
How far are surrounds speakers likely to be from you?
Can centre not sit on the Tv bench?
Sorry for the late reply, I just now was able to reply.
My ceilings are 8 ft and I am gonna mount them as high as I can and as close as I can to that 8 ft.
Surround speakers are likely to be very close to mlp. Within two or three feet maybe a little farther away.
I don't think I can put center on bench but I'll certainly explore the option.
 
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Reldvs1

Novice Member
If you wish to have Atmos then it's pretty important to have the base 5.1 speakers at or just above a seated head height. It has to be that way so that there is separation between that base level and the Atmos domain. Have the base speakers too high, say more than 50% of the ceiling height and you could lose the Atmos in with the base level.
Thanks for the reply.
Another important factor that may help is my avr.
It's a Pioneer vsx-834
Which means I have that microphone for setting speakers levels.
So does that mean I should put the speakers at normal listening ear height even though they are monopole and the avr will compensate with the correct levels for each speaker location?
If you can't tell this is my first attempt to make my own diy home theater. I just now got all the video aspects installed but now I'm working on audio side of things. That's why I'm here now, hoping to avoid any install mistakes on speaker placement, as best I can lol. And at the same time get the best placement I can for the best results AND still make my wife happy because this is also our living room and the first room you walk into when you enter our house. So it also has to pass the wife approval test lol.
 
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gibbsy

Moderator
So does that mean I should put the speakers at normal listening ear height even though they are monopole and the avr will compensate with the correct levels for each speaker location?
In a nutshell yes. The first position is important, place it where you sit and at a seated headheight. This first position is the one that determines distance, timing and volume which will balance all the speakers to be at a reference of 75dB at the main listening position (MLP). The remaining positions will help the calibration work out how the room interacts with the speakers.
 

Reldvs1

Novice Member
In a nutshell yes. The first position is important, place it where you sit and at a seated headheight. This first position is the one that determines distance, timing and volume which will balance all the speakers to be at a reference of 75dB at the main listening position (MLP). The remaining positions will help the calibration work out how the room interacts with the speakers.
Ok Thank you very much. I will take your advice when I get to that step.
But I'm still working out the location for my speakers and I'm trying to get them as close to ear height as possible to make room for the atmos layer above.
I have some 3 way bookshelf speakers that I'm Going to try to make hug the ceiling as close as I can, while still following the placement and angle that is recommended by Dolby for atmos 5.2.2
(maybe down the road I'll save up for 9 or 11 channel avr and add 5.2.4, but this gets my feet wet on the subject and time to save up for a better avr while still enjoying atmos while I'm saving for something better)
I'm praying that if I can bring my LCR down low enough to be ear level, that I can still make room for the atmos layer on top using the wall speaker brackets mounted up really high on walls. Since I can't cut holes in ceiling.
What do you think?
 

Reldvs1

Novice Member
Update,
Ran into issues trying to bring the center channel speaker down but I was able to get LR down to ear height.
Is there any way at all to mount the center up higher? Even if I had to buy a specific kind of center speaker in order to do so?
And I'd still like feedback regarding using bookshelf speakers hugging the ceiling, on speaker wall brackets, for atmos fronts. I figure if it is possible, perhaps I'll get better bass from explosions and such overhead, if I use bookshelf speakers for atmos.
I've read a few threads where people have had success doing this. But id like to hear from others.
I think I can get all my speakers at ear height except for that darn center.
I'm also considering cutting a hole in the bench seat back. Just big enough to house the center speaker but recessed enough that if you sit on bench you won't be pressing up against the speaker grill. It would be a lot of work but if I can't mount the center up high, I don't know of many more options.
Please let me know what you think.
Thank you!
 
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Reldvs1

Novice Member
Fair.


Blimey. Over-reacting a touch maybe? I'm surprised Matt didn't just leave it.
Thanks for your reply.
Anyone with a comment about speaker placement have anything?
I am sorry my over reacting was so bad to you.
Yes I'm glad Matt didn't just leave it.
But at the same time, the reply I got WAS vague and unhelpful.
So if I'm guilty of overreacting, then they were too for under-replying.
I would not have over reacted, if i had not written as much as I had and gotten better than one sentence reply. And if what I had written needed more detail, a simple friendly response to add more would have helped.
I feel like I reacted with frustration over how little help I got and voiced it with an example of how vague the help was. I took the time to write more than one sentence and kinda hoped for more in response.
When I did get that help, then my attitude changed.
But I digress.
That's not why I'm here....
I'm looking for help SPECIFIC to AV.

Update to the update....
I got L and R to approx around 40" height and after I got out my saw and went to work on that bench seat, I was able to get the center to about 30" off the floor.
I still need advice about the overhead atmos speakers.
I also think I've talked the wife into letting move the couch off the back wall, so I'll be able to mount rear surrounds maybe 3-3.5ft behind mlp.

Is there anyone that can help with this specifically?
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
I am sorry my over reacting was so bad to you.
Seriously?

Yes I'm glad Matt didn't just leave it.
But at the same time, the reply I got WAS vague and unhelpful.
So if I'm guilty of overreacting, then they were too for under-replying.
His comment could have been helpful if you hadn't yet checked the Dolby guidelines, he didn't know that you already had. It would have been better to just say you had looked at those and couldn't follow them, and that you were after more specific help. While his reply was short, he wasn't actually rude to you.

I would not have over reacted, if i had not written as much as I had and gotten better than one sentence reply. And if what I had written needed more detail, a simple friendly response to add more would have helped.
I feel like I reacted with frustration over how little help I got and voiced it with an example of how vague the help was.
It was the first reply, there was no suggestion that no one else would reply. And people will be more likely to help you if you're polite to them.

I took the time to write more than one sentence and kinda hoped for more in response.
You took the time because it's to help you! Other people take the time to respond for no benefit to themselves, just to help you out. Expecting them to put in the same effort as you, when this is all completely for your benefit, is unrealistic.

This is an incredibly helpful forum, with people constantly going out of their way to help others. Just be patient and people will try and help you if they can. You're new here, and it's probably not going to help you to start being rude to experienced members you don't know.
 

Reldvs1

Novice Member
Seriously?.... Yes. I am sorry you felt that my over reaction was so bad that you needed to bring it up to derail the help I was already getting.
So I am apologizing to you in hopes we can stay on topic.
His response was short and not helpful and you find a way to defend that.
But if I point out how it was not helpful, I'm the over reacting person.
I took the time to write more because it was a suggestion to get better responses.
And yes I am here because I need help. But if I have to show you how patient I am and eventually I will get help, than I am needing a speedier help than that.
I was not any more rude than his reply was short and I felt we had all moved past that.
And I honestly didn't see why you felt the need to point it out after the fact when I was already getting help.
Can we please just stay on topic.
I'm not trying to be rude but I am trying to stay focused.
A one sentence reply is not very friendly, so I responded with a similar tone.
I am as friendly as those are to me. But I will also point out if you are unfriendly or unhelpful.
Seniority doesn't mean you have to be unfriendly to a noob seeking help.
This is not the only av forum to go to for help, it was just the first I went to.
It should not be this difficult to get friendly helpful advice.
Again not trying to be rude but I want to stay focused pretty please.
If you can offer advice about av specifically, I would welcome that.
 

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