Question 5.1 with in-ceiling surround?

Jmbwso76

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Good day all. I am building a home theater in my soon to be finished basement and due to weird spaces, soffits, etc I have opted for in-wall front left, front right and center channel speaker (hidden behind an acoustically transparent projector screen) and then instead of in-wall left and right speakers I opted for 2 x in-ceiling speaker to be mounted in a position for use with new Dolby Atmos-enabled receiver. Should I A) opt for for 2 additional in-ceiling speakers or b) add a true left and right surround to make it a true 5.2.1? Thanks?
 
Even better, 4 in the ceiling then 2 proper surrounds if you can.

Having surround and atmos speakers in the ceiling is only going good to confuse the sound field and not sound good IMO

Although better experts than me may be able to suggest a compromise?
 
If you can run 5.2.1 then go for it. Just be aware that ceiling positions for 5.2.1 / 5.1 / 5.4.1 are all different and if placement is difficult that might make your decision for you.
 
Thank you for the replies! Here is my best possible diagram of my basement plan. The gray boxes at the top right are left, right and center in-wall speakers that will be mounted in front of an AT projector screen. The black box to the top right is the sub (wireless so can be anywhere), the grey boxes to the right of the couch (Power Point couch haha - not so good) and across the room on the left would be possible surrounds (L/R) and the two grey circles are the ceiling speakers behind the couch. So basically I have the ceiling speakers in my possession but was wondering if it would be better to get another set of those OR should I get the L and R surrounds? I have a 7.2 receiver (not a 9.2). thanks! Of note, there is a soffit that is depicted with stacked grey rectangles which essentially split the room in half hence all the sound being clustered on the right side.
basement.PNG
 
The ceiling speakers look to be in completely the wrong place for a .2 Atmos system. As far as I am aware they need to be in front of the listening position, you only have Atmos speakers behind you in a .4 system. Can you move the ceiling speakers forward?
Also looking at your proposed 5.2.1 system the right surround is going to be very close to the seated location and will dominate the sound especially for anyone sat on the right of the sofa. This will be worse in an Atmos system since the surrounds should be at ear level.
If you can not move the ceiling speakers forward then I would suggest no going for an Atmos system but stick to 5.1 with the ceiling speakers as your surrounds. Not ideal having ceiling speakers as surrounds but may be the best option given the space and limitations.
 
The ceiling speakers look to be in completely the wrong place for a .2 Atmos system. As far as I am aware they need to be in front of the listening position, you only have Atmos speakers behind you in a .4 system. Can you move the ceiling speakers forward?
Also looking at your proposed 5.2.1 system the right surround is going to be very close to the seated location and will dominate the sound especially for anyone sat on the right of the sofa. This will be worse in an Atmos system since the surrounds should be at ear level.
If you can not move the ceiling speakers forward then I would suggest no going for an Atmos system but stick to 5.1 with the ceiling speakers as your surrounds. Not ideal having ceiling speakers as surrounds but may be the best option given the space and limitations.
Awesome feedback. Thanks! I am actually able to position any of the speakers anywhere at this point since no work has started. That was just my comprehension of where the in-ceilings should go. Would you add rear speakers (bottom of pic) and then have the in-ceilings in front of the seating? Crutchfield's A/V design feedback was that I would barely benefit from Left and Right surrounds because of the same thing you stated (that the right surround is too close to the listener - tho they mentioned the auto-calibration should alleviate some of this). I am only constrained at this point by the placement of the screen. Open to suggestions and desperate to find the right answer soon since framing starts in a week or two. Thanks!
 
I would definitely move the ceiling speakers forward ahead of the sofa.
For the surrounds some dipole/bipole speakers may work better as these would not be firing directly at the viewers on the sofa. You can buy on wall or even in wall versions of these so they would be worth a look.
 
I would definitely move the ceiling speakers forward ahead of the sofa.
For the surrounds some dipole/bipole speakers may work better as these would not be firing directly at the viewers on the sofa. You can buy on wall or even in wall versions of these so they would be worth a look.
Great option PSM1. I am looking at those now. If you were me, would you mount those as dipole on the sides, or bipole (or dipole) at the rear? thanks again
 
Dipole on the sides is worth a try or bipod on the wall behind the sofa.
 
Give yourself half a chance of achieving decent Surround Sound.

Joe
 

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Thanks everyone for the advice. I have spoken with a Crutchfield rep for while regarding my exact room setup and possibilities and now I am confused as ever lol (not his fault - lot of options). Right now I have 3 options:

1. 5.1 (non-Atmos) using front left/right (Polk Audio RC85i)/center (Polk Audio 255CR-T) and the rear/side surrounds would be provided by Polk Audio 80 F/X-RT (Polk Audio 80F/X-RT) flush mounted in the ceiling behind the listeners.

2. 5.1.2 (Atmos) using front left/right (Polk Audio RC85i)/center (Polk Audio 255CR-T) and rear in-wall surrounds using Polk Audio RC85i (Polk Audio RC85i) plus overhead firing Polk Audio RC80i (Polk Audio RC80i) mounted appropriately (slightly in front of listeners) in the ceiling.

3. 5.1.2 (Atmos?) using front left/right (Polk Audio RC85i)/center (Polk Audio 255CR-T), overhead firing Polk Audio RC80i (Polk Audio RC80i) mounted appropriately (slightly in front of listeners) in the ceiling, and finally the rear/side surrounds would be provided by Polk Audio 80 F/X-RT (Polk Audio 80F/X-RT) flush mounted in the ceiling behind the listeners.

thanks again!
 
Option 1 or 2, not 3.

If you go for Atmos then your surrounds should not be in ceiling. You won't get the separation between the base layer (5.1) and the Atmos speakers.

So either stick with 5.1 with ceiling surrounds or go for Atmos with in walls for the surrounds. Depends if you think that right hand speaker will be over powering. Moving the sofa to the left would definitely help but it depends if this is possible. Probably be fine on the lefthand seat.
 
I think the responses above have already answered the placement question.

Personally in that size space, with a compromised layout and a desire for discreetness I’d stick with 5.1 but that’s just my opinion. Sometimes less is more.

But I notice your listing a different model for your centre and in your the diagram you have it mounted on its side. Why, if your putting the speakers behind an AT screen would you not go with three identical speakers all mounted the same way up? One of the key benefits of an AT screen is that the tweeters on your L/C/R all share the same horizontal plane and all sound identical.

Sounds like the Crutchfield salesman isn’t used to specifying speakers for use behind an AT screen. Or rather, is more used to specing more ‘consumer’ setups, where centre placement is a compromise. You want the centre to be the same model and mounted the same way up as your L&R speakers.
 
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I think the responses above have already answered the placement question.

Personally in that size space, with a compromised layout and a desire for discreetness I’d stick with 5.1 but that’s just my opinion. Sometimes less is more.

But I notice your listing a different model for your centre and in your the diagram you have it mounted on its side. Why, if your putting the speakers behind an AT screen would you not go with three identical speakers all mounted the same way up? One of the key benefits of an AT screen is that the tweeters on your L/C/R all share the same horizontal plane and all sound identical.

Sounds like the Crutchfield salesman isn’t used to specifying speakers for use behind an AT screen. Or rather, is more used to specing more ‘consumer’ setups, where centre placement is a compromise. You want the centre to be the same model and mounted the same way up as your L&R speakers.
Great advice Jamieu! I will revisit. I had planned on mounting the L/R front channels upright and the Center channel the way it is designed, however you make an awesome point that normal rules could be thrown out since they can be mounted behind the picture. The L/R front speakers I chose are listed as "Surrounds" and come in pairs. If you were me, would you return the center channel speaker and get a single (would be diff model. Maybe this one? Polk Audio 265 RT) surround speaker and place it directly in the center? Or should I just be mounting my center between the L/R front surrounds so that they all fall in line with each other (parallel to the ground at eye height)? I also am leaning towards just the 5.1 which is because I was starting to think that while ATMOS is cool (most likely), my space is small, ceiling is low, etc. and probably less is more here. Thanks again!
 

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