5.1 to Atmos help and recommendations

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
After recently upgrading my receiver I’m interested in adding height speakers. For clarification, I’m not going to install speakers in the ceiling so it’s either the upfiring modules or heights. I’ve added some pictures of the room below, interested in any feedback about what I can and can’t do, placement etc. The sofa is against the rear wall and we sit around 3 meters from the front speakers. I would guess the ceiling is around 3 meters high.

Am I limited to 5.1.2 or is there a way to get 5.1.4?

1F83EE5C-D8BB-4743-9D7B-6D1C4B28E0E0.jpeg
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gibbsy

Moderator
You have a fan pattern on the artex ceiling, not ideal for upfiring speakers. I'd go for on wall as high as you can and inline with the front left and right. If you go for module type of speaker then they are already angled and have keyhole fittings for fixing to the wall.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
You have a fan pattern on the artex ceiling, not ideal for upfiring speakers. I'd go for on wall as high as you can and inline with the front left and right. If you go for module type of speaker then they are already angled and have keyhole fittings for fixing to the wall.
I think I remember reading a while back front height is generally better than upfiring. Do you think I would get away with another pair of heights at the seating position? I know there isn’t a lot of room at the back left between the wall and red curtain and I’m not sure what the recommended distances are (wall to speaker, speaker to MLP).
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I think I remember reading a while back front height is generally better than upfiring. Do you think I would get away with another pair of heights at the seating position? I know there isn’t a lot of room at the back left between the wall and red curtain and I’m not sure what the recommended distances are (wall to speaker, speaker to MLP).
Be tempted to put any rear Atmos speakers on the side walls which will work as you have dipoles on the rear wall. Four is always going to trump two. I've been using upfiring KEF speakers for six years now. My speakers predate those that come with keyhole slots for fitting to the wall unfortunately. They are too good to replace even as upfiring ones. Even two speakers will give a good bubble of sound.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
Be tempted to put any rear Atmos speakers on the side walls which will work as you have dipoles on the rear wall. Four is always going to trump two. I've been using upfiring KEF speakers for six years now. My speakers predate those that come with keyhole slots for fitting to the wall unfortunately. They are too good to replace even as upfiring ones. Even two speakers will give a good bubble of sound.
The silver fx speakers on the rear wall do have a dipole option, but I run them in bipole. Would they do better in dipole for atmos?

It’s also just occurred to me - instead of on the side walls as I had previously suggested, could I fit a second pair of heights on the rear wall above the rear speakers? Basically mirroring the front heights?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The silver fx speakers on the rear wall do have a dipole option, but I run them in bipole. Would they do better in dipole for atmos?

It’s also just occurred to me - instead of on the side walls as I had previously suggested, could I fit a second pair of heights on the rear wall above the rear speakers? Basically mirroring the front heights?
Whatever works for you. Good height to your ceiling so the effects should be very good.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
Thanks @gibbsy, the room isn’t far off square so heights above the front and rear speakers might do well then.

I suppose the next question is what speakers to look at? I know the SVS prime elevation is a popular choice, but what will match well with the NAD AVR and monitor audio speakers?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I wouldn't worry about matching the Atmos speakers to the others or the AV amp as timbre is not important with those overhead effects. SVS, KEF Q50a, Dali Alteco and a couple of models from Elac are popular as well as the good old CA Minx.
 

AmericanAudio

Active Member
AVForums Sponsor
You could also add in the Totem Flex Minis to your list.

Lovely little angled driver, on wall / ceiling mounts.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks @gibbsy, the room isn’t far off square so heights above the front and rear speakers might do well then.

I suppose the next question is what speakers to look at? I know the SVS prime elevation is a popular choice, but what will match well with the NAD AVR and monitor audio speakers?

How much you can spend on them? Example Kef R8a would be similar level to your Golds, those other Gibbsy mentioned are cheaper ranges - not similar quality. How much that matters then i don´t know as i have seen those SVS Prime Elevations used with very expensive speakers and people love them (in US). Monitor Audio is designing new Silver range as we speak and i´m fairly sure they will come with Atmos / Height speakers as the Bronze range already got them, but sadly i don´t know will the new range be out this year or next year.

Kef R8a with keyholes for wall mounting. As Kef says it can work as Atmos or surround speakers which basically means you can use them as height channels aswell. The price is high of course, but the finish would be more on par to Gold range and generally build & sound quality.

kef-r8-atmos-black-botton.jpg
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
@Marshall Mike

I use 4x Dali Alteco's positioned as heights like you propose. My base speakers are MA Silvers (with FX's as rears - also in a similar position to yours. The Dali's will be fine in such a setup imo.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
You could also add in the Totem Flex Minis to your list.

Lovely little angled driver, on wall / ceiling mounts.

I believe they're called Kin Mini Flex, don't know how that got through the marketing team 🤣
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
The best is the "Kin Sub". Haha, there are few times I've heard that shouted at me "You and your kin subs!" - you know, those days when another big heavy box appears at the front door. :)
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Kef R8a would be similar level to your Golds
£800 a pair. I paid £600 for my R50s. They often come up on evil bay.

 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
How much you can spend on them? Example Kef R8a would be similar level to your Golds, those other Gibbsy mentioned are cheaper ranges - not similar quality. How much that matters then i don´t know as i have seen those SVS Prime Elevations used with very expensive speakers and people love them (in US). Monitor Audio is designing new Silver range as we speak and i´m fairly sure they will come with Atmos / Height speakers as the Bronze range already got them, but sadly i don´t know will the new range be out this year or next year.

Kef R8a with keyholes for wall mounting. As Kef says it can work as Atmos or surround speakers which basically means you can use them as height channels aswell. The price is high of course, but the finish would be more on par to Gold range and generally build & sound quality.

kef-r8-atmos-black-botton.jpg
I would be willing to spend more on those kefs R8a’s to maximise SQ. Would probably take longer as I would add one set at a time but I’m ok with that. With the recent release of atmos music on ATV they would need to be on par with the rest of the setup if the ATV takes advantage of them with music! But if the heights don’t play that big of a roll or aren’t that noticeable in that example then they might not be worth it?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The R50s were considered to be the leading speaker when released for upfiring positioning and the reason I bought mine was to have the R Series all round. Not been disappointed with my purchase and I'd have another pair in a heart beat but my room layout at the moment precludes that option.

As for Atmos with music a lot will depend on the recording and mastering itself. I'm not into streaming but with the discs that I have then Hans Zimmer Live in Prague is awesome, huge soundstage that fills the room. I have another Atmos disc from Mumford and Sons Dust and Thunder and that doesn't sound as good their DTS-HD 5.1 Live at Redrocks on which DTS Neural does a far better job.

It's not so much the Atmos discs that impress, it's what the upmixing modes of Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X bring to the party which adds a lovely new dimension to standard 5.1 soundtracks.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
650£ ex demo pair, perhaps there is still little bit of air in price if calling them.

Ex-display Kef R8A Atmos speakers. Just shy of 2 years old, but with just a handful of playing hours due to the fact we have full ceiling Atmos set up running. Kef would only have been used for a few demos.

Very slight mark on one speaker which is extremely hard to see from most angles where the grille magnet touches the speaker cabinet (bottom right front of left speaker in main image but would not come out in picture it is so fine).



 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
I see there is also the Q50a speaker. Was this the replacement of the R50 or a different range entirely? I’m unfamiliar with the Kef speaker range hierarchy
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
@Marshall Mike

I use 4x Dali Alteco's positioned as heights like you propose. My base speakers are MA Silvers (with FX's as rears - also in a similar position to yours. The Dali's will be fine in such a setup imo.
I’m just wondering about your positioning for the Dali’s, particularly the back ones. Do you angle them so they are pointing straight at your listening position, or are they fitted flush to your wall?

I just read an interesting thread about the Dali’s and how speaker brackets were used by various members to angle and point them at their MLP’s.

It got me wondering if I can use brackets to clear that curtain rail and position the speakers closer to my own MLP, rather than on the front wall.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I actually go
I’m just wondering about your positioning for the Dali’s, particularly the back ones. Do you angle them so they are pointing straight at your listening position, or are they fitted flush to your wall?

I just read an interesting thread about the Dali’s and how speaker brackets were used by various members to angle and point them at their MLP’s.

It got me wondering if I can use brackets to clear that curtain rail and position the speakers closer to my own MLP, rather than on the front wall.

Hi Mike

I actually got 4 of these brackets:

Amazon product
I also plan to position my front height speakers on the side walls closer to and angled towards my MLP. My rear heights are currently positioned high on the same wall as my Silver FX surrounds.. I'm probably going to reposition these to the side wall also.

I'm assuming you've seen these pictures:

IMG_6594.jpg

IMG_5780.jpg


From an AV forums member I actually got the idea off of them. The brackets in the pics are the same as I linked to.

Incidentally I don't currently havrme my system operational as my custom cabinet is being installed mid July 🤞, so will need to re run all cables etc.

Hope this helps.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
I actually go

Hi Mike

I actually got 4 of these brackets:

Amazon product
I also plan to position my front height speakers on the side walls closer to and angled towards my MLP. My rear heights are currently positioned high on the same wall as my Silver FX surrounds.. I'm probably going to reposition these to the side wall also.

I'm assuming you've seen these pictures:

View attachment 1536359
View attachment 1536360

From an AV forums member I actually got the idea off of them. The brackets in the pics are the same as I linked to.

Incidentally I don't currently havrme my system operational as my custom cabinet is being installed mid July 🤞, so will need to re run all cables etc.

Hope this helps.
Thanks and yes, it was those pics that got me thinking about using speaker brackets to see if I can get a better position. What’s not all that clear in that thread is how the bracket fixes to the speaker itself. Are there mounting holes on the Dali’s or do you have to drill/screw into the cabinet?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Thanks and yes, it was those pics that got me thinking about using speaker brackets to see if I can get a better position. What’s not all that clear in that thread is how the bracket fixes to the speaker itself. Are there mounting holes on the Dali’s or do you have to drill/screw into the cabinet?
The back of the Dali's have standard keyhole mounts, so no drilling of your nice new speakers is necessary 🙂...

alteco-wht_l_5-large.jpg


The bracket kit comes with various fixings to use with different types of speakers (including the silver metal adapter plate & screws) you see in the close up pic my previous post.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
The back of the Dali's have standard keyhole mounts, so no drilling of your nice new speakers is necessary 🙂...

View attachment 1536422

The bracket kit comes with various fixings to use with different types of speakers (including the silver metal adapter plate & screws) you see in the close up pic my previous post.
Ah I see now thanks. I’ve been trying to find something that would fit the Kefs but no joy so far. The Kef key holes are on either side of the unit rather than top and bottom middle like the Dali’s.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Ah I see now thanks. I’ve been trying to find something that would fit the Kefs but no joy so far. The Kef key holes are on either side of the unit rather than top and bottom middle like the Dali’s.
You only need to use the top keyhole with DelayCon brackets. This is all the fixings that come with the brackets. (As you can see, it's a pretty extensive kit).
 

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Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
You only need to use the top keyhole with DelayCon brackets. This is all the fixings that come with the brackets. (As you can see, it's a pretty extensive kit).
At the top left of your pic there are four brackets pictured horizontally - are the holes spaced 100mm apart on any of them? That’s the spacing of the Kef keyholes.
72F9E5B0-9B12-4056-A421-92636AA5BD3E.jpeg
 

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