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5.1 Receiver with built in Amp for passive Sub

TinFly

Standard Member
Greetings to all here.

I am looking for a 5.1 (or 7.1) receiver that has a decent built in amplifier to drive a passive sub, rather than a preamp out for an active sub.

In order to keep this post as short as possible, the long and short of it all is that I wasted my money buying a Logitech Z-5500 about a year ago and the Sub has stopped working.
Everything works fine aside from the sub --- for what it's worth, the driver itself is fine, so must be something in the sub-amplifier circuit.

Plan is rather than binning the Z-5500's or selling them at a massive loss with a faulty sub, I am considering keeping the speakers and connecting the subwoofer directly to some speaker terminals (thereby bypassing all amplifier circuitry and running it as a passive sub).
It is a 10" 8ohm driver and I am not 100% sure of the wattage as Logitech apparently refuse to divulge such information.
I have read some comments on the sub amplifier being 120W but I cannot state this as a fact.

The only constraints I am looking at for a standalone receiver are that it must work with a Harmony One Remote and I would prefer the sub amplifier to be of decent power rating (decent implying that if I had the choice of an 85W @ 8ohm or 150W @ 8ohm then I would definitely go with the higher rating).

Thanks for any suggestions.

Steve
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
To be honest you would be much better to just throw the Logitech away and start again. There are no AV recievers with a built in amp for a passive sub so you will not be able to do what you want. You could buy an AV reciever and then a mono amp to power the sub but this is getting to a level of expense that the Logitech speakers do not deserve and the money would be better spent on a proper AV speaker set. The logitech speakers are not the best quality anyway so accepting you made a mistake with them and starting again with a proper AV amp and speaker set is the best option. No point throwing good money after bad.
 

D.D.D.

Active Member
... and the Sub has stopped working.
Steve,
why not just repair this sub in electronics workshop? If amplifier was burned - not a hard job for professional to replace some parts.

Or another option - replace Logitech with better sub: search eBay - there are some old REL models (Storm, Strata) - they will be significantly better then Logitech.
 

TinFly

Standard Member
Gotcha - thanks for the replies.

A fine example of the middle class erosion --- a pair of £40 Dell 2.1 desktop speakers would have sounded like crud, but probably worked forever and ever.

Shoot for mediocrity and spend almost £400 on the Logitechs and they end up in the can a year later.

Right, time to think of a creative way to swing this past the wife .....
 

TinFly

Standard Member
Steve,
why not just repair this sub in electronics workshop?

Hey there - I am thinking about that as I have had them open since Saturday trying to fault find myself.

I am not a proper tech (no oscilloscope etc) but do have a good solder station and meter etc and can easily do the repair (if I knew what was wrong) ... I guess that is obvious!

These things apparently often have issues with the control POD, so I opened both the sub and the pod up and have traced every wire successfully, so no umbilical cord issue there.

Connected sub driver directly to external amp and it works fine.

All caps and general components look fine (ie. no obvious signs of visible damage).

The real mystery is that we use it in our small family lounge at normal TV listening levels ... the wife and kids do NOT appreciate me even testing things at meaty levels ... so it has not popped from abuse or anything.

Any suggestions for repair shops?

I live in Surrey and work in Central London --- I am sure there are MANY, but perhaps someone has a place in mind?

Steve
 

YellowSphere

Well-known Member
There is actually one! Pioneer VSX-S300. Would still advise to upgrade speakers also, though.
 

TinFly

Standard Member
There is actually one! Pioneer VSX-S300. Would still advise to upgrade speakers also, though.

Excellent!! Thank you very much for that.
I had found an Onkyo HTS3405 system as well that seemed quite nicely specified in terms of features, but this Pioneer looks like the perfect thing that I would want to get.

I like the fact that it has (as far as I can tell) a preamp out for an active sub as well as an amplifier out for a passive!!!!

The only reason I will be holding on to my Z-5500 speakers for now is simply because for our use they suffice for the time being (very average TV viewing and the occassional AVI from our Media Center) and the 10" sub performs better than the little puny passive boxes that come with most cheapo all-in-one packages when you do puch things a bit higher in my opinion.

Once I have the receiver, I would start researching decent speaker combinations whilst taking my time repairing the Z-5500's.
Once repaired I would be able to sell them and put that money towards better drivers all around.

Steve
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
I still think you are better starting from scratch. The Pioneer amp is not exactly cheap and the last slim line Pioneer amp I had (a few years ago now) sounded pretty poor for the money. I have not heard the latest slimline Pioneers but if they have not improved much then you are paying a lot of money for a pretty below par amp. IMHO slimline amps are always going to be compromised on sound quality compared to a similar priced normal sized amp due to the constraints of the power supply etc. If you are asking the small power supply to power a sub as well as all the other speakers then this will put even more strain on it which will affect sound quality.
Go listen to the Pioneer against similar priced but conventional amps to see if you can hear a difference. It would seem strange to buy a poorer quality amp just so you can cling onto your Logitech speakers!!!! Also I bet when you listen to some proper AV speakers you will also realise that the Logitech ones you have are not that great either (better than a cheap all in one system but not as good as proper AV separates).
 

TinFly

Standard Member
Also I bet when you listen to some proper AV speakers you will also realise that the Logitech ones you have are not that great either.

Hey there.

I do agree with you 100% to be quite honest.

This may sound a tad strange taken in context with my questions and given that I may seem to be defending some glorified PC speakers ... but I have a very well equipped home recording studio (circa 102 mains powered devices - so by no means a "corner of room" setup with a PC and a few plugins etc) :laugh:.
My monitors are not of the highest order, but I use Mackie HR-824's, Yamaha NS-10M's and Auratone 5C's in my studio.

I come from a professional music background (signed artist in my Country of origin prior to emmigrating to the UK 7 years ago) and also did a lot of live sound engineering as well for many years --- so you would THINK that I would have some taste and standards :eek:

Well, I actually do ... it is really just that I have always ploughed every available bit of cash into my recording gear and have never actually been able to just go ahead and get a decent AV system once and for all ... as every time I have looked into these things over the years, another deal comes up for a vintage valve compressor (for example) and I just end up telling myself that what we have is fine for watching TV (yes I know, the wife and kids suffer whilst Dad has all the toys in the music room)!!

Thing with the Logi-Trashes was that we had a Samsung All-In-One set that came with our LCD as a package a few years ago (shortly after settling in the UK) and last year the DVD player packed up, so I bought a Sony Blu-Ray player and since we had a Harmony One remote already, I was looking for the "cheapest" way to get a basic system that could be controlled via the Harmony One --- whilst yet again "putting off" the inevitable purchase of quality.

As my speciality is recording gear, I had (and still have) very limited knowledge of home AV gear, so some very quick Googling led me to them as a temporary (and allegedly pretty decent --- oh why oh why do we trust the Internet so much) measure as I was always under the impression that quality would come in at least over the £1000 mark.

Truth is you are right - I should repair and sell them and get something better.

OK - now I know that this forum is going to be BRIMMING with answers to this, but if anyone has read this far, then any suggestions as to the million dollar question of what I can get that is not going to cause a divorce yet at the same time might be deemed to be decent quality for a home setup would be greatly appreciated.

Our current lounge is pretty small to be honest (about 10ft x 15ft I would guess) and there is not much space for large freestanding fronts/rears so the equivalent of bookshelf sized speakers would probably get me past the wife easier.

Thanks for the help (and gentle yet firm nudging towards the truth!) and sorry for the long post.

Steve
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
You can get the Q Accoustics 2000 AV package for £399 from Superfi and also the Wharfedale Diamond 10.0 HCP package from them for the same money. Bother speaker packages are great for the money and paired with something like the Denon 1912 (£350) or even Onkyo 509/609 or Yamaha 471.
 

TinFly

Standard Member
You can get the Q Accoustics 2000 AV package for £399 from Superfi and also the Wharfedale Diamond 10.0 HCP package from them for the same money. Bother speaker packages are great for the money and paired with something like the Denon 1912 (£350) or even Onkyo 509/609 or Yamaha 471.

Hey PSM1 - thank you VERY MUCH for those recommendations.
You have been extremely patient and a really great help.

It takes such a long time researching things in this day and age from the ground up and can be quite daunting as you get lost very quickly in the multitudes of options etc.

Your 3 x replies to my personal situation have pretty much settled me on the Wharfedales and probably the Denon.

At a very quick look at the spec sheets, the Denon seems to be worth the extra £50 over the Yamaha and I will need to take a closer look (and maybe a listen) at the Onkyo 609 to see if there is a worthwhile £100 extra there as well.

I will be heading up to Superfi in Camden next week to see if I can get a listen to the 2 x speaker packages and hopefully the Denon vs Onkyo just to be sure that I choose with my ears and not my eyes.

Thanks once again - a massive :thumbsup: from me!

Steve
 

TinFly

Standard Member
I am sure the sub has a fuse of its own.

I will take another look - there is only one fuse at the rear of the sub enclosure (unless I have overlooked the wood for the trees as they say) and that definitely affects the entire system as I checked that (tested the fuse and checked the system with the fuse missing - no power at all) ... BUT, perhaps there is another fuse inside the cabinet (or elsewhere) which I have not seen or even looked for properly.

I will post back here once I have taken a good look.
 

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