4K vs 1080p plasma, LED/LED and OLED discussion

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Scooby2000, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000
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    OK thought I'd start this thread for what is understandably a hot topic that's leaking into various threads.

    This thread is to compare 1080p(2k) and 4k on Plasma, LCD and OLED.
    This thread isn't for comparing these types of set with one another, a general discussion thread on if and when 4k will be needed, what it brings over 2k and how it may be achieved on the above types of TV.

    'Note to mods'
    I have placed this here as it not only covers 4k and existing 1080p, but also multiple types of sets that have their own forum so posting here will save duplicating any information.
     
  2. Insanity202

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    With us still being in the age of broadcasting alot of SD content Im a little concerned how 4k tv will upscale SD broadcasts. More so with cheap 'Chinese' screens spoken about on the forums that maybe coming out soon.
    I also hear Japan is going to start broadcasting 8k res soonish so it makes me think 4k is just a gap filler for now.
     
  3. davidcrofter

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    From reviews it seems you need to throw a hell of a lot of processing power at these 4K tv's and that is already built in by default so a good SD source (DVD for instance) can look remarkable on these panels.

    I think it is also a bit naive to think that the Chinese will be simply producing some sort of "knock off Nigel" 4K TV's compared to their Korean & Japanese rivals as this is there big shot at making inroads into the Western market imho. They will need to have a decent chipset and scaling or they are dead in the water - hopefully they don't bother with all this Smart TV nonsense and just get the basics done well to give the renowned brands something to think about ... if they get the pricing right and actually get them to market here.
     
  4. Insanity202

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    Someone posted the Chinese are set to sell 4K tvs for $2k for large screens eg 60"+ that to me sounds too cheap. Not saying there 'knock off Nigel' style but something has to be cut somewhere to get to that price point. I have a feeling it will be the scaling side of things. Yes it will scale SD up...just not at the same.quailty as for example LG whos 4K sets cost a hell of a lot more.
    On the subject of Smart side of things I personally dont think tvs need it. Theres so many devices that do this already that are connected to tvs it seems daft. Then again its another feature to stick on the box.
     
  5. Scooby2000

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    Decent components cost money, its as simple as that. I think if they are priced so low they'll be bottom end quality wise, people will buy them and I'm sure be happy, but can't see them reviewing well and comparing well to top end plasmas. Many are already saying the F8500 has an OLED look so they have a lot to compete with.

    Sure it may been the existing manufacturers drop their prices but at what cost? Quality will go out the window IMO, think own brand LCD, it'll be that level of OLED screen.

    Also if 4k they'll likely be even worse given the efforts the existing makers are putting in, Panasonic and Sony are having to work together on 4k OLED and are still having problems.

    Also do we need 4k yet? Id rather spend 2-3k on the 1080p F8500 or more on a ZT than buy a cheap OLED just because its 4K. Will take years for a decent supply of content to be available likely at a premium too.
    Will a 2k OLED at big screen size have decent scaling? I doubt it myself, unless the take a huge hit to enter the market.
     
  6. Scooby2000

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  7. davidcrofter

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    To be fair some of the members on here change their TV's more than they change their undergarments (me semi-included:laugh:)... the regular dude on the street buys a TV and keeps it for at least 5 years.

    If you are faced with buying a 4K TV or a 1080p TV you are probably going to be sold on the merits of 4K even just for the sake of future proofing.

    When you consider that both Panasonic and Samsung appear to have thrown the kitchen sink at their high end 1080p TV's it suggests to me that 4K or OLED will be here quicker than a lot of people are thinking and at a price that won't be that far off the high end 2013 TV's.
     
  8. davidcrofter

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    Those that have seen them say they are not quite as impressive as the other 4K tv's but they may not be the rivals they are shooting for at the outset if they get the pricing right they may be taking on high end 1080p models.

    The important question will be can a "cheap" 4K TV look better than a high end 1080p TV??

    We will of course have to wait and see and it will be an interesting shoot-out ... me personally I will be staying with 1080p simply because I prefer plasma over LED no matter what resolution it says it can display on the box.;)
     
  9. Scooby2000

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    Whilst I don't completely disagree with you, many are either confused or simply peed off with all these must haves each year, people just want a set that they can watch TV on(SD) DVDs, games and increasingly bluray. Not one person I've spoken to about 4k even know what it is. Also how are people going to get 4k? The Red set top box is thousands, the new consoles won't be 4K as far as Im aware and very few have decent enough connections to download and stream.

    I'm more than happy to get the best of plasma for the next 5 years and buy OLED when some of the inevitable issues are ironed out and costs come down.
    4k LCD doesn't interest me at all as its still LCD and 4k plasma will be too expensive and buy the time its affordable OLED won't be a huge amount more expensive(likely why Panasonic aren't making one).
     
  10. Scooby2000

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    I agree with all that lol.

    Do you mean cheap 4k LCD? Think you know the answer to that one lol how many issues do cheap LCDs have.
    When 1080p came out many non 1080p sets were better all round sets, I remember similar discussions.
     
  11. Scooby2000

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    Of course as Johns mentioned before, what about 8k? Is 4k future proof? Is anything future proof? Personally I hate that term myself.
     
  12. davidcrofter

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    Pretty sure the PS4 will support 4K - you can bet that the new Xbox will as well. Blu-Ray is up in the air as they are still working out what needs to be done to get 4K out on that format.

    Fibre is coming to most parts of the UK - two-thirds will have it early part of next year and that is not even taking into account SKY or other providers.
     
  13. davidcrofter

    davidcrofter
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    From reviews this year the backlight issue seems to be less of a problem - either that or reviewers are getting cherry picked specimens ...

    As I said earlier I probably won't be rushing into 4K because I don't like the "forced" look of LCD and prefer the more natural plasma screens ... but I am in the minority as are you it seems.

    Wondering what sort of "look" OLED will have - I am thinking it will resemble LCD/LED without the flaws?? It will still have that "digitised/processed" feel I guess.
     
  14. Scooby2000

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    Yeah it will have a more LCD look to it I think, my Samsung plasma has a bit more of a processed look, but importantly it has depth, LCD just looks flat to me, a piece of film over a light box is exactly what I see, I guess its because that's what it is lol. OLED will be per pixel like plasma and should have the depth so not too worried.

    Not rushing into OLED or 4k, even if I had the money Id rather buy plasma at the top of its game over being an early adopter, rushed into buying DVD and the V20, I learn from my mistakes...eventually lol.
     
  15. Insanity202

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    I have read that the PS3 will support downloaded 4k movies, games will be able to be native 1080p at 60fps.

    Well thats the rumors lol.

    I think getting the masses to covert to 4k will be the more tricky job as we still broadcast in SD and the range of free HD channels isnt mind blowing. Maybe we will see 1080p become the new SD and 4k the new HD....until 8k comes out lol
     
  16. Scooby2000

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    Yep supports 4k but isn't a 4k player or console. If people are expecting 4k gaming this gen they're going to be very disappointed.

    Could you imagine how expensive a 4k PS3 would be:eek: certainly not 300 quid as its rumored to be.
     
  17. DaMacFunkin

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    I've read comments from reviewers in both HCC and what hi-fi that if you don't need a new tv any time soon then you would be better of waiting for 8k... As soon as the Chinese start pumping out cheap 4k sets you can bet the big Japanese manufactuers will wheel their 8 k sets in Europe. Also, if someone is prepared to invest in a new def broadcasting standard, (sky & canal maybe) would they really go for 4k with 8k set to launch in Asia?
     
  18. vism

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    The UHD standard and HEVC support 4k and 8k.

    Can't see the point of 8k though, the TV will need to be massive.
     
  19. Scooby2000

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    So, 4k LCD? Or 2k plasma? Or indeed 2k LCD, that's all that's going to be available for a while. 4k OLED will be pricey for at least 3-4 years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  20. vism

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    Still not buying it scoobs.

    Next year OLED will be expensive, year after we're talking a bit over ZT money.
     
  21. Insanity202

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    How long did it take for large plasma/lcd screens to drop in price to what they are now? 3-4yrs?
    OLED depending on how well and fast they can produce them will be the deciding factor on how quick they will fall in price.
    Panasonics method seems to be key but time will tell.

    As for 8k tvs its a numbers game and if in X amount of years companies need a boost in sales they will be made as the next big 'shiney and new must have'.
     
  22. Scooby2000

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    Prices will remain high for a while to re-coup R&D cost too I'd have thought, once a decent profits been made prices will drop. So many factors involved I honestly can't see 4k OLED being affordable for the masses any earlier than 5 years, sure LCDs may drop quite rapidly but people will soon see 4k LCDs are still LCDs with the same issues. Most with the money to buy one will be wondering if its worth it with OLED duearound the time contents widely available. If 4k LCD is going to succeed then prices will need to drop very quickly IMO.

    I think I'll be more than happy with 1080p gaming and films for a while, also if 4k compatible 1080p sets could still benefit from any new 4k content, you just won't get the res and going by the average screen size it may not matter that much.

    Like HD ready I bet we'll have 4k ready etc.
     
  23. pt44

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    I'm not exactly a TV geek, I'm still viewing a 32" 6 year old Sony as my main set. But, I do like tech.

    But here's my question. 4k? I recently spent a week with my cousin watching a huge 55inch Samsung screen, pretty new one. I hated it. The edge contrast was so clean, it was like watching a really poorly made BBC childrens program made 20 years ago. It had no feel. I had exactly the same feeling when I watched The Hobbit at the cinema. Wow, look at that high quality image! No thank you, that's horrendous. It's too clean, too real, that's not what a film should be like. A film isn't real, it's not the same as watching golf or football (neither of which interest me btw).

    4k - just seems to be heading in that same direction. Oohh, look at the sharpness, look at all those tiny pixels. Great for sport I'm sure. But for day to day TV and for Movies? I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing something?
     
  24. Rader123

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    I know what you mean. Before my Samsung 55" D7000 became faulty, the picture quality on HD channels was amazing and even more so on bluray discs. The picture can sometimes be too clear which sort of takes away the realism aspect. I once watched a TV show discussing something similar where they did a survey on people comparing picture quality from the 80s, today's SD and today's HD. Quite a lot of them said they actually preferred the SD because while the HD was really clean and clear, it reduced realism, or something along those lines. Anyway, the gist of it was that people came away disappointed. For them, you either have SD or lifelike image, not something in between, which HD is. But for me, HD is better than SD but can sometimes leave feeling unfulfilled.
     
  25. Scooby2000

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    A lot of people use way too much sharpness and over saturated colour. LCD can look very flat and very processed looking, they just need setting up correctly.
    Many seem to confuse HD with a sharper picture when really its about extra detail and depth. Its strange how most buy LCD but then dislike HD, says to me they likely have the wrong set.
     
  26. kbfern

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    How can something clean and clear reduce realism, surely it is the other way round, I think you mean it reduces the filmic effect.

    The higher the resolution is like seeing the view/image in the flesh rather than through a tv etc.
     
  27. Scooby2000

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    Smoke and mirrors, do you want a cheap prop to look like a cheap prop or a real thing fitting into its intended world?.
    The keener eyed like myself already see flaws in CGI and props that can break you away from the reality your being fooled into believing. Going to be a proper nightmare for SFX studios and prop/set artists. If you can see more detail you can see every flaw, every shortcut and every minute mistake.

    The other thing is what reality do you want to be in? Depends on the film I guess but most films try to take you away from your reality, your day to day life.
    Some films may intend the opposite of course but Im talking entertainment and escapism most film goers go to see or watch on bluray.

    Steve Withers and others put it well when they ask if you want to go see a stage play or watch a film. Though a film may use the same props and even a stage(all be it bigger) its believed to be real as in a place and not a real stage.

    Edit: re-reading your post this appears to be what you mean.:facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  28. stucarblne

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    Sort of quoting the (Display Myths Shattered article) - although not word for word because i can't remember it all lol. May have to have another peek. There really isn't a sharper or non sharper way with sharpness :laugh: with (digital) unless it was mastered at humongous resolutions. Otherwise it's artifacts galore upping sharpness.

    Any artificial sharpening is just that. Why turning off any unnecessary processing or artificial edge enhancing is important from a reference standpoint (bluray). And getting the best reference sharpness pattern available to adjust with. Of course though there are displays and sources out there with non defeatable edge enhancing and other hidden processing.

    Definitely plasma has more depth you're right. Lcd isn't sharper. It's all an illusion imo. I would go as far as to say that given the correct settings, source (and) material. Plasmas 'look' sharper. And in my opinion certainly 'look' more detailed because of the superior ANSI bringing out all the possible detail that is there to see.

    No way though is there a right or a wrong way, but personal choice with display technologies.
     
  29. Trollslayer

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    Pretty much my plan. :smashin:
     
  30. sanjuro

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