4k projector with top notch visuals

markyboy14

Novice Member
also im after a projector on a bargain price for under £1500 i want it to do the biggect diagonal screen size image posdible at a distance of about 12 feet from sitting away from the screen
im after a 4k projector for top notch visuals
i want i want it to give me the best visuals currently available i want it for really showing of the very latest blockbuster movies special effects films and the same for gaming as well

what 4k projector is currently out there for the price would give me a top notch picture quality at this price

also what is the no1 4k projector for the same information i asked for doesnt matter of price
also i want it so i can connect a mobile phone to it
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
That projector dont exist, you might find a DLP projector in that price range with low image quality, the real 4K projector marked starts with SONY VPL VW270ES for around 4500£, and the best normal 4K might be the JVC NX9 for around 18000£, there is much more expensive alternatives as well should you need more light.

The best possible image quality you can get inside your budget would ba a used JVC X series, a 1080P projector with eshift, thats the highest image quality on a budget.

Remember that image quality degrade with screen size, no matter what projector vou should chose, it will perform its best on a small screen, size and quality is a compromise.

Also for best image no matter what projector you will need to have a dedicated room with anti reflective dark walls and no incoming light at all, and a proper calibration.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
also im after a projector on a bargain price for under £1500 i want it to do the biggect diagonal screen size image posdible at a distance of about 12 feet from sitting away from the screen
im after a 4k projector for top notch visuals
i want i want it to give me the best visuals currently available i want it for really showing of the very latest blockbuster movies special effects films and the same for gaming as well

what 4k projector is currently out there for the price would give me a top notch picture quality at this price

also what is the no1 4k projector for the same information i asked for doesnt matter of price
also i want it so i can connect a mobile phone to it
What’s the screen size are you ideally after and what’s the dimensions of the room.

True 4K DLPs can give a very detailed image but suffer poor black levels and rainbow effect if you are sensitive. From 12ft away you would actually struggle to see any difference in resolution between a JVC/Epson e-shifter (2K image) vs a True/Native 4K projector (4K image) if the screen size doesn’t go greater than 120”, beyond this size you will possible start to notice and by 140” it will be as plain as day.

If you intend to game a lot too then maybe a DLP might be a good option as few have great refresher rates and motion handling.

May I ask what size of screen are you currently watching?

One thing newbies don’t realise is when you jump in screen size you start to realise that not all blurays either 1080p or 4K are created equal and their picture quality can differ greatly, something you might not notice on a much smaller screen like a TV even one that’s 65”. So as Strids says you need to strike the right balance between immersive experience and image quality, best buy the projector first and project the image on to the blank wall if light in colour to see the difference to image quality size makes and then buy the screen.
 
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IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I'd like a very good LED/laser 4K panelled projector with 'top notch visuals' for £10k and that doesn't exist either.....
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I'd like a very good LED/laser 4K panelled projector with 'top notch visuals' for £10k and that doesn't exist either.....
There might be someone on here there could build you such a thing. ;)
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
also im after a projector on a bargain price for under £1500
not native 4k and under 1500 gbps looking at either budget epson 7400 or a DLP eg benq budget 2700, or optoma uhd 50...

DLP will get you some greater resolution than LCD e-shifter... as they use a higher res chip, also better clarity since they use only one panel so no convergence issue. the problem though is their use of colour wheel and rainbows also image quality wise also they dont quite look upto what native 4k machines can achieve. plus for some reason their contrast is not great... also being e-shifting i do think they do still fuzz details...

biggect diagonal screen size image posdible at a distance of about 12 feet from sitting away from the screen
12 feet is a reasonable distance and id be looking at a 120" screen (thx recommended for immersion 41.5 deg) which will achieve pretty decent results with most projectors without going crazy... bar excluding something like sony 270es/290es which doesnt really have enough lumens to light up a screen that size for 4k uhd hdr... but will do fine for 1080p. other upper projectors like sony 570/590es, jvc n5/n7/n9 all will do fine at this as will epson, optoma, benq etc will also do fine for this screen size and viewing distance...

also what is the no1 4k projector for the same information i asked for doesnt matter of price
also i want it so i can connect a mobile phone to it
no 1 4k projectors ? in jvc likely the n9 in lamp and z1 in laser. in sony its GT380...870/890ES... are the top sony projectors ...ps i have not included barco and such they are more in the commercial space i feel...

re mobile phone ? get an apple tv 4k.. and just use mirroring

True 4K DLPs can give a very detailed image but suffer poor black levels and rainbow effect if you are sensitive. From 12ft away you would actually struggle to see any difference in resolution between a JVC/Epson e-shifter (2K image) vs a True/Native 4K projector (4K image) if the screen size doesn’t go greater than 120”, beyond this size you will possible start to notice and by 140” it will be as plain as day.
dont agree with this luminated. I have a far smaller screen than all that and viewing at thx recommended distance for immersion (41.5 deg viewing angle) and could see difference between moving from e-shift to native... also something seen in the shops, there is a clarity, clearness to the picture thats hard to miss of native machines. not to suggest at all the e-shifters cant achieve absolutely stunning images on own... i owned e-shifter myself 4.5 years and was completely blown away... ultimately anyone considering can go with what ever floats their boat...decide for self what they feel is appropriate for their own desired screen size...
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
dont agree with this luminated. I have a far smaller screen than all that and viewing at thx recommended distance for immersion (41.5 deg viewing angle) and could see difference between moving from e-shift to native... also something seen in the shops, there is a clarity, clearness to the picture thats hard to miss of native machines. not to suggest at all the e-shifters cant achieve absolutely stunning images on own... i owned e-shifter myself 4.5 years and was completely blown away... ultimately anyone considering can go with what ever floats their boat...decide for self what they feel is appropriate for their own desired screen size...
Difference is the smoothest of the image wasn't what I meant, I meant how much detail you see. We had five people present when I compared the Sony 360 against the 9400 and with detail none of us could notice any difference from 9.5ft from my 100" screen, the ages ranged from two at 19, 21, a thirty something (Sony owner) and myself.... middle aged. :cool:

Of course somebody else might have noticed something different but on that occasion none of those present did.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Difference is the smoothest of the image wasn't what I meant, I meant how much detail you see. We had five people present when I compared the Sony 360 against the 9400 and with detail none of us could notice any difference from 9.5ft from my 100" screen, the ages ranged from two at 19, 21, a thirty something (Sony owner) and myself.... middle aged. :cool:

Of course somebody else might have noticed something different but on that occasion none of those present did.
its not just smoother image (smoother from greater detail) but theres a clarity and clear - clean nature to the picture with native.

also am not sure the sony 360es is a good test of this. as i know i spent ages some years ago on an old home forum with javs comparing with his sony 300es... as a native sony owner he was a bit stumped i think my jvc x7000 was pulling more detail ! :D we now know a lot more ... the sony lenses for starters have plastic element to save cost ... unlike all glass jvc and epson. also we know now the sony because of its internal processing couldn't actually resolve down to picture level... kris said same thing about a top end sony laser the other day...crazy i know but javs got rids of his native sony to go to jvc e-shift ! another character here did same as well. the native jvc dont seem to have this issue. all glass lens, no processing stoping them and they resolve down to pixel level perfectly well (verified with the quick brown fox screens real material etc by many). i guess am just saying i wouldn't bet the farm on a sony 360 viewing....

but in any case, i will always say there is far more to 4k uhd and projectors than resolution ... people tend to get a bit resolution obsessed ! i remember the hate for pixel shifters for years .... unless it was native ...some folks wouldn't even consider which is just plain crazy... you see this even in the new model sony projector thread here right now. someone sitting there watching their telly, swearing they are fully resolving 4k and anything bar 4k in projectors are just pretenders hehe when at their viewing distance and screen size of their telly they would only just be resolving 1080p and starting to see some detail past 2k :D anyways its peoples views welcome to them, am not here to try change folks views...can keep believing what ever they want to believe. but will share what i know folks can take it or leave it :)
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
its not just smoother image (smoother from greater detail) but theres a clarity and clear - clean nature to the picture with native.

also am not sure the sony 360es is a good test of this. as i know i spent ages some years ago on an old home forum with javs comparing with his sony 300es... as a native sony owner he was a bit stumped i think my jvc x7000 was pulling more detail ! :D we now know a lot more ... the sony lenses for starters have plastic element to save cost ... unlike all glass jvc and epson. also we know now the sony because of its internal processing couldn't actually resolve down to picture level... kris said same thing about a top end sony laser the other day...crazy i know but javs got rids of his native sony to go to jvc e-shift ! another character here did same as well. the native jvc dont seem to have this issue. all glass lens, no processing stoping them and they resolve down to pixel level perfectly well (verified with the quick brown fox screens real material etc by many). i guess am just saying i wouldn't bet the farm on a sony 360 viewing....

but in any case, i will always say there is far more to 4k uhd and projectors than resolution ... people tend to get a bit resolution obsessed ! i remember the hate for pixel shifters for years .... unless it was native ...some folks wouldn't even consider which is just plain crazy... you see this even in the new model sony projector thread here right now. someone sitting there watching their telly, swearing they are fully resolving 4k and anything bar 4k in projectors are just pretenders hehe when at their viewing distance and screen size of their telly they would only just be resolving 1080p and starting to see some detail past 2k :D anyways its peoples views welcome to them, am not here to try change folks views...can keep believing what ever they want to believe. but will share what i know folks can take it or leave it :)
The JVC N series is quite a bit from resolving 4K, and the lenses as well, the SONY 270 has a significantly better lens and panel 1:1 pixel resolution, but also low bit resolution, and much more processing gimick and uniformity issues that destroys the final result.

My take on the JVC N series very smooth organic look is related to its lacking resolution capability, it creates softer edge transients, that can be positive to digital, it will filter out some noise and distortion, in general upscaled 1080P content is enough, and 4K content dont really have anything to offer in form of resolution/ detail, specially not on JVC 4K projectors.
It also helps that it has very good bit resolution capabilities.

All the glass vs plastic lens marketing bs is worthless, ill much prefer a good plastic lens over a lousy glass lens, its a like a international brainwash that consumers swallow unchallenged.
Just add glass, laser or titanium to the marketing text and its a home run, it will for sure fool all the ignorant consumers.
 
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IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
The JVC N series is quite a bit from resolving 4K, and the lenses as well, the SONY 270 has a significantly better lens and panel 1:1 pixel resolution, but also low bit resolution, and much more processing gimick and uniformity issues that destroys the final result.

My take on the JVC N series very smooth organic look is related to its lacking resolution capability, it creates softer edge transients, that can be positive to digital, it will filter out some noise and distortion, in general upscaled 1080P content is enough, and 4K content dont really have anything to offer in form of resolution/ detail, specially not on JVC 4K projectors.
It also helps that it has very good bit resolution capabilities.

All the glass vs plastic lens marketing bs is worthless, ill much prefer a good plastic lens over a lousy glass lens, its a like a international brainwash that consumers swallow unchallenged.
Just add glass, laser or titanium to the marketing text and its a home run, it will for sure fool all the ignorant consumers.

When you say the N series is quite a bit from resolving 4K are you saying the panels and or lenses are not good enough ?

Glass lenses have the potential to be considerably better than plastic, if that hasn’t been achieved then they need to talk more to Camera lens manufacturers. Interesting really when I look at the quality of images from a 10 year old digital camera and a 50 year old lens....it’s way, way more than I need
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
When you say the N series is quite a bit from resolving 4K are you saying the panels and or lenses are not good enough ?

Glass lenses have the potential to be considerably better than plastic, if that hasn’t been achieved then they need to talk more to Camera lens manufacturers. Interesting really when I look at the quality of images from a 10 year old digital camera and a 50 year old lens....it’s way, way more than I need
Its a combination, the panels can not do a full on off 1:1 pixel , they do a fairly perfect 2:2 on off, and the lens can not really focus on a pixel level, there will also always be some chromatic aberration.

I have seen plastic camera lenses also outperforming glass lenses, so it is really what you make of it, Glass is not a quality stamp, take the plastic lens on the SONY VPL VW270ES, its way sharper than anything JVC ever come up with.
The lenses on the N5/ N7 is a straight swap with one from a X3, or any other X series lens.

Another question is do a lens need to resolve each pixel and the pixel grid, ill say no, its actually a distortion to the illusion on the screen. The JVC N series have a very comfortable and organic look, kind of the closest thing i seen to a good CRT projector image.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
When you say the N series is quite a bit from resolving 4K are you saying the panels and or lenses are not good enough ?
we have had countless folk find the n series jvc actually the one to resolve down to pixel level. even the sony have had problems doing that... refer kris deering latest comments re 760ES not be able to resolve down to pixel level even with working around factory settings. the sony their processing is the stumbling block and just can be completely bypassed... this is not an issue with jvc...

There's 2 reasons jvc look smooth.....one is inter pixel gap(best in the business)...and the other is their 4k resolution...its like join the dots... have the dots further away with less dots for less resolution or have the dots further away and the joined dots wont be a nice smooth line... vs more dots and closer together :)

Glass lenses have the potential to be considerably better than plastic, if that hasn’t been achieved then they need to talk more to Camera lens manufacturers. Interesting really when I look at the quality of images from a 10 year old digital camera and a 50 year old lens....it’s way, way more than I need
absolutely as a camera guy for about 45 years :D yes i waa a little kid walking around with a dual lens reflex of my grand dads :D and yes good glass is good glass... plastic is only ever done to save money. even sony replace their plastic element with all glass eg ARC-F lens in upper models ...
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
we have had countless folk find the n series jvc actually the one to resolve down to pixel level. even the sony have had problems doing that... refer kris deering latest comments re 760ES not be able to resolve down to pixel level even with working around factory settings. the sony their processing is the stumbling block and just can be completely bypassed... this is not an issue with jvc...

There's 2 reasons jvc look smooth.....one is inter pixel gap(best in the business)...and the other is their 4k resolution...its like join the dots... have the dots further away with less dots for less resolution or have the dots further away and the joined dots wont be a nice smooth line... vs more dots and closer together :)


absolutely as a camera guy for about 45 years :D yes i waa a little kid walking around with a dual lens reflex of my grand dads :D and yes good glass is good glass... plastic is only ever done to save money. even sony replace their plastic element with all glass eg ARC-F lens in upper models ...
Could you take a good picture of the 1:1 vertical and horizontal line pattern, and a 1:1 pixel phase pattern in 4K from your JVC N series to illustrate how it fully resolves 4K?

If you dont have the patterns let me know and ill find a youtube link to some that can be used streaming directly to your projector.

Here is the patterns im talking about just this is a 1080P projector.
20210423_113944.jpg
20210423_113851.jpg
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member

#2 Sony VLP295es has the brown fox test pattern for those interested.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member

#2 Sony VLP295es has the brown fox test pattern for those interested.
The Fox testpattern is mostly a chroma upsampling testpattern, with small 1:1 sections in between, now i will say mine looked something around the same, the sample in that thread looks to have more funky convergents a chromatic aboration, i dont recall how i setup the service menu to actually get it to make a decent 1:1 its for sure related to the processing crap SONY do.

Here is another pattern, JVC RS2000 vs service menu tweaked SONY 270, guess whats what.
20191008_175238.jpg
SONY.jpg
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
The thing that surprised me was it’s native contrast was only 8.8K:1, not dramatically different to a 9400 and definitely not something you would easily notice. Also very poor lumens when calibrated 715 :confused:, barely enough to handle SDR never mind HDR.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The thing that surprised me was it’s native contrast was only 8.8K:1, not dramatically different to a 9400 and definitely not something you would easily notice. Also very poor lumens when calibrated 715 :confused:, barely enough to handle SDR never mind HDR.


I don't rate Sony at all. Light output alone makes them really difficult to seriously consider IMO.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I don't rate Sony at all. Light output alone makes them really difficult to seriously consider IMO.
It was OK for a 100” screen for SDR in a blacked out room, much like a JVC X3 will be.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
It was OK for a 100” screen for SDR in a blacked out room, much like a JVC X3 will be.

sony 270es/290es has a tad more lumens than old x3, though with sony 270/290 having only 1500 lumens would struggle for 4k we are talking here and for HDR on low lamp. would have to kick into high lamp for 100" am thinking to achieve anything akin to 30FL/100nits for HDR..

the 570/590es and above models in sony do have more lumens at 1800 same as jvc n5 and should be fine am thinking for SDR/HDR just as jvc are. n7 claims a tad more lumens 1900 which am not too sure about...whether they drive the same lamp a tad more or is it the n7's upspc light engine and just how much spec translates to more actual luminance ... luminance wise id expect it to be pretty close to the n5. n7 does have the dual iris though and that certainly helps close down further :)
 
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Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Anyone here tested the SONY and JVC 1:1 resolution capabilities themselves?

Is everybody just going with what they can read online and having a opinion based on that?
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
anyone looking for some good and in-depth reviews and measurements of main 4k contenders @shartm and crew have done some great work :)

only trouble is finding them as on web and on youtube as cant find them with google as russian sourced but do have good russian to english translation with most :)

hopefully @shartm can point to these for folks reference :)
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
anyone looking for some good and in-depth reviews and measurements of main 4k contenders @shartm and crew have done some great work :)

only trouble is finding them as on web and on youtube as cant find them with google as russian sourced but do have good russian to english translation with most :)

hopefully @shartm can point to these for folks reference :)
Could you share the 1:1 4K test patterns from your jvc N series so we can confirm that its no way near resolving 4K please.
 

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